119 replies to this topic

[Brendan]

NCMike1981, on Sep 11 2008, 08:10 PM, said:

wow this is interesting...what will become of the half demolished shopping center?

The only thing that's been demolished is a outparcel on the Kildaire Farm Road side.  They did create a sediment drainage area in the parking lot in front of Whole Foods and one on the parking lot on the Tryon Road side. (I think that's what they are.)

Losing Crescent really hurts.  I'd give anything for Kane Realty (North Hills) to pick this up.  This area is in a great location for an upscale retail/commercial development based on demographics (Lochmere/MacGregor/Regency).  This area needs something nicer than your standard strip mall.

IMHO, Cary is tremendously underserved in respect to upscale shopping and restaurants. (I'm not impressed with the Arboretum on Harrison.) All the bigger chains ended up at Crabtree and now at Southpoint, while Cary's stuck with the horribly depressing Cary Towne Center -- a mall that seems to be dying every time I (reluctantly) go there.

So in the mean time, we're stuck with an empty, deteriorating shell of a shopping center for some time to come.

Not good.

[Jones133]

Waverly is not nearly as centrally located or served as well by roads as North Hills (read I440 is at NH's front door). Something about that whole intersection has always felt like a pass-through area, not a destination area, even with Whole Foods, and the hospital nearby. Cary's ultra wide setbacks and buffers make for a strange feel when trying to force a dense thing amongst the very very low density stuff like Lochmere..the topo doesn't seem to help either, as Kildaires ridge sinks everything below the road level. All this said with the main idea that maybe this area is not destined to be truly urban...I dunno, just thoughts...

[Gard]

Not exactly urban development, but nonetheless interesting...McDonalds is plannign to redo the location in Saltbox Village into a LEED Certified restaurant in Cary:  http://www.newsobser...ry/1222874.html

[Jones133]

not "urban" but interesting still. maybe the Peace St location will go LEED too? Would fit into our developing identity as a city or region of technology.

[ncwebguy]

We drove through what is left of Waverly Place last weekend and it borderline ghost town.   It was dark (right at 9) but the few tenants left drew few customers. Cardinal State Bank as an anchor could have really helped redo the shopping center -- deck parking below the "Kildare ridge" with "street" level retail and offices/hotel rooms/apartments/condos above.  I don't know what they'll do now without a major tenant or financing to pull everything off.

Elswhere in Cary, the Stone Creek shopping center was quite empty as well.  They had a Chop House (didn't go in, we already had dinner) a few botique-ish stores and a toy store, and a few late night draws -- Kilwik's Fudge and Ice Cream and a coffe shop.  It was a clone of the Arboretum on Harrison, with a grocery store and fast food to the side.  There was a fair amount of retail space available, and the "apartments" on a master plan sign looked like they weren't coming any time soon.  All a very-Cary two or three floors, if that.

[CapeFearRiver10]

Gard, on Sep 18 2008, 12:23 PM, said:

Not exactly urban development, but nonetheless interesting...McDonalds is plannign to redo the location in Saltbox Village into a LEED Certified restaurant in Cary:  http://www.newsobser...ry/1222874.html

Those are popping up everywhere but fast food still sucks

[Gard]

Waverly Place has been sold to another developer and the new developer is reworking the plans for the site:  http://www.newsobser...ry/1234131.html

[Captain Awesome]

Quote

All this said with the main idea that maybe this area is not destined to be truly urban

I think anything that could be truly defined as urban development will be fought tooth and nail.  Low density and sprawl is fundamental to Cary's success in attracting families to live there.  Most people in Cary don't mind driving to Raleigh or Durham for shopping and restaurants.   That's what they do.  They drive somewhere and hope to get a parking space at the doorstep of there destination.  I can recall in the mid-80s discussions about whether new neighborhoods should include sidewalks because it was perceived that foot traffic caused an increase in crime.  

These attitudes are ingrained in Cary and have been very successful in growing their residential tax base.   I don't see why they would change that model regardless of gas prices and the mixed-use trend.

[Brendan]

Lipstick on a pig.

There was an article in the April 23, 2010 edition of The Triangle Business Journal about Waverly Place. Apparently RP Realty Partners has scuttled the $180 million plans mixed-use plans that developer Todd Zapolski had and will simply make a few upgrades. RP claims that Rite Aid will be moved to an outparcel, allowing for Whole Foods to expand. They have not however filed any plans with the Town of Cary and Whole Foods has not signed any deals to expand.

This is extremely disappointing for Cary. Instead of dramatically improving the property with a mixed-use design, they will make minor upgrades. The flaw with the design will remain -- the need for an anchor store on all 3 sides.

The facade may change. Stores may be suckered in, but fail in the long (or not that long) run, leaving it an ideal location for filming Super Bowl commercials or perhaps an apocalyptic zombie movie. Instead of something new and exciting, we'll get yet another typical strip mall... and a failing one at that. But while we wait, it continues to sit there as Cary's biggest eyesore.

http://triangle.bizj.../26/story1.html

[DPK]

Brendan, on 23 May 2010 - 03:54 PM, said:

The facade may change. Stores may be suckered in, but fail in the long (or not that long) run, leaving it an ideal location for filming Super Bowl commercials or perhaps an apocalyptic zombie movie. Instead of something new and exciting, we'll get yet another typical strip mall... and a failing one at that. But while we wait, it continues to sit there as Cary's biggest eyesore.

Agreed.  Wavery is a horribly run-down waste of land at this point.  I parked and walked around it the other day out of shear curiosity.  Walked up the outdoor escalators, everything.  What remains is decaying, unsafe, and dated.  Several of the parking lots have already been half-ripped up.  The signage that remains is inaccurate.

It all really just should be ripped down except for the building with Whole Food and Rite Aid.  I think there's a daycare/playzone space on the far side of Waverly that still operates, but other than that they should just consolidate and rip it all of the main center down.  I can't foresee any minor amount of money being spent to make this place look better.  It's beyond just a new coat of paint at this point.

[Brendan]

Check out CaryCitizen's story "Waverly Place Begins Construction".  

http://www.carycitiz...ns-construction

The owners of Waverly Place have started construction on a 1-acre public green area with sidewalks, water features, and fire pits.  Not sure how this shows off our local economic strength.

With the plan being to keep most of the structures -- flawed design and all, this looks like a token attempt by RP Realty Partners to something to make this crap hole look (negligibly) better than it does now.  Interesting to see the result of this new green area when it's surrounded by all empty stores.  Of course no word on any specific retail being added.  

I tried looking for more info on the Town of Cary site, but couldn't find anything (like always).  Wouldn't ToC have to approve all this?  Anyone have links?

[DPK]

Pretty sure it has something to do with this set of plans:
http://sitesubplans....1/planindex.htm

I could be wrong though as those are fairly dated, but they're the latest I can find from the TOC website, the crap-shoot that it is.  I agree they'd be better off demolishing that entire area.  Some frilly landscaping isn't going to fix the problem.  I've never felt comfortable walking around Waverly.  It just doesn't make me feel relaxed.  It's bland and disjointed.

This article from the TBJ is a bit better at detailing the plans:
http://triangle.bizj.../26/story1.html

Edited by DPK, 05 September 2010 - 11:03 PM.

[Brendan]

Hal Goodtree with Cary Citizen says he has seen the plans and that everyone will be happy.  Wish the public could see something.  

I did speak with a cashier at the Rite Aid yesterday and she said that they were told that the construction would start with a fountain feature and "move outward".  Not sure what that means.  Rework the exterior of each building?

[Brendan]

The old Red, Hot & Blue outparcel in Waverly Place has been bulldozed.  Haven't heard what will go in the location.

Edited by Brendan, 13 September 2010 - 07:19 PM.

[Brendan]

Developer tries again at Waverly Place
Owner RP Realty has plans to pretty up the property http://www.carynews....at-waverly.html

The Cary News gets it right when they describe the current plan for Waverly Place as "pretty up".  The improvements are focused on building a "50,000-square-foot promenade on the central grounds will feature  waterfalls, edge pools, fire pits, a playground, space for a stage and a  large lawn."  (I really question whether we'd ever see fire pits for insurance reasons, but I could be wrong.)

The article does say will be redoing the building facades.

So instead of the original $180 million plan announced by the previous owner, RP Realty Partners are spending $15 million in this "renovation."

Cary town planner Jeff Ulma commented that the leaner version has been "a little disappointing."  You can say that again. "Attracting the right stores may be all that Waverly Place needs. If [a store] gets some draw from you, it doesn't matter where it is," Ulma said.  
I don't think I believe this.  


Again, keeping the (poor) design of the shopping center as is -- basically 3 shopping centers back-to-back-to-back -- each side needs an anchor to attract the majority of shoppers to that side of the center.  Currently only the front Kildaire Farm side has an anchor with Whole Foods.  The Tryon side and the back side both have nothing.   Can they find stores that are willing to take the risk here, especially on the back side?  I really doubt it.  I'd try to entice Rite Aid to move to the top Tryon side.

The article seems to blame the lack of success for the center on the lack of visibility and accessibility.  It is lower than the road level, but I still think its more due to layout.  


No signed leases yet.  

[Jones133]

I needed a birds eye to fully understand the situation.
Map
Accessibility seems better than most shopping centers. If it is a problem, then I think you can safely say the strip as a model is a problem. I notice Waverly takes out parcels to an extreme. The outparcel square footage looks to be close to that of the rest of the center. The anchor comment is important since strip centers are destinations by model, and without a destination store, there is simply not a reason to get in your car and make the trip. Some strip centers function like neighborhood shopping areas (Mission Valley), and I think Waverly fancied themselves that  originally but there simply is not enough natural foot traffic from nearby residents (students) or more anchors to support al those small store fronts. Fail.

[Brendan]

Here are some local TV news stories about the press conference held at Waverly Place last week.

News 14: Compared to North Hills.  I don't see that.  Cary Mayor Harold Weinbrecht says it will be better due to North Hills' congestion.  
http://charlotte.new...to-get-facelift

NBC 17: Odd claim that they will level the site, "completely redo it, get rid of the different tiers".  We're not hearing that at all.  
http://wake.mync.com...shopping-center

[cityboi]

I would love to see more urban development in Cary so it will seem less like a suburb of Raleigh. It seems as though Cary's population has out paced urban development. It would be nice if Cary eventually has a dense urban core like High Point. Even though High Point borders Greensboro and is much smaller than the Gate City, its urban core makes it a city in its own right. Most dont consider High Point a suburb of Greensboro. Guilford County is the only county in NC with two large cities that have urban cores. Hopefully Cary will achieve this. With the right city leadership and planning, it will happen. High Point has over 100,000 people and its about the same size as Cary in population.

photos of Downtown High Point. Maybe downtown Cary could eventually look like this.




Showplace Convention Center

Edited by cityboi, 30 September 2010 - 01:23 PM.

[NCMike1981]

^I'd be suprised, from what I hear most Cary folks want to keep downtown small and quaint....it's kinda odd that with a population of well over 100,000 ppl it has a downtown smaller then, say Hillsborough, population 5,500. Plus I thought that, in addition to the many ordinances designed to keep Cary as beige and "unoffensive" as possible there's also a height ordinance restricting buildings height. I may be wrong but I could have sworn it caps out at maybe 4 or 5 stories tall. I have heard they have been relaxing a few ordinances as Cary slowly runs out of land to grow and some of the older areas of sprawl start showing their age so maybe folks can build taller structures in town now.

nice pics of High Point by the way

[Brendan]

Construction at Waverly Place in Cary is  progressing for a summer opening.  The new store front framing is nearly  complete on most of the stores on the Tryon Road side and just started on the  Kildaire Farm side. The new, green "promenade" section, located on the back side  where the escalators were, appears to be about 30% complete.  RP Realty Partners  recently launched a promotional web site at http://www.waverlycary.com.  Many in the area received postcard flyers in the mail  promoting the web site.  Unfortunately, there's not a lot of info on the site  yet, as it doesn't appear they have any leases to announce yet.  2 outparcels  are available with the demo of Red, Hot & Blue.

On their Facebook  page, they asked what stores they would like to see in the area.  For this  shopping center -- actually 3 shopping centers, back-to-back-to-back, to  survive, the store mix is critical.  The store mix cannot be the same as all  other shopping centers (i.e. Jersey Mikes, a nail salon, GameStop, (yet another)  NY pizzeria, zzzz).  Each side of Waverly Place needs a strong anchor for that  side to thrive.  Whole Foods anchors the Kildaire Farm side.  

Here are  list of restaurants and stores that I would like to see:

Restaurants

Rosa Mexicano (DC, NY, Miami) - Upscale,  modern,  Mexican,   San Antonio’s Modern Mexican  (Charlotte), Dos  Taquitos (Raleigh) - Exotic  interior,  Firebirds  (Southpoint, North Hills),  Gordon  Biersch Brewery Restaurant (Rockville,  MD), Rock Bottom Brewery &  Restaurant  (Charlotte),  Joe's Crab Shack  (Fayetteville), Wild Wing Cafe (Raleigh),  Bocce (now in  Lochmere Pavillion),    Flying Biscuit (breakfast,  Cameron  Village),  The Penguin Drive-In (Now franchised with  Big Game  Brands),  Tupelo Honey Cafe  (Asheville), Chubby Taco (Raleigh), Bun (Chapel  Hill),  McAlister's Deli (formerly in Cary, now @ North  Hills,  Durham, Chapel Hill), Village Deli  (Raleigh, Durham),   Mexico Cantina Y Cocina  (Seattle),  Baja Fresh (Raleigh),  Silver Diner  (Rockville, MD),  Kilwin's Chocolates/Ice  Cream/Fudge (Cary)

Retail  

New Balance (Raleigh) Swaggers (now in  Lochmere Pavillion),  Dean & Deluca  (Charlotte),   Pandora (Southpoint, Raleigh),  Frontgate

What would you like to see at Waverly  Place?