119 replies to this topic

[DigitalSky]

http://msweb01.co.wa...;pin=0762630729

Pics of the place.  Courtesy Wake County

[rooster8]

You can actually see the evolution from theater to gym to gym.  Too bad some of the current second story spaces couldn't be retrofitted for residential purposes.  As far as suburban shopping centers go, it's a nice place.  I think it's problem is that it is too sprawling and people aren't/weren't willing to walk all around it.  Today's society likes to park right in front of the door and it is hard to do that here.

[Cary NC]

I posted on another forum of the idea of another old shopping center that could use the same redevelopment idea. I thought of Cary Village square and South Hills. Both of these two areas have large tracts of acreage that could provide a great opporunities to bring some density to an old part of Cary.

Cary Village Square
It is right across the street from Cary Towne Center and Cary High. It crosses over to the other side of Cary Towne Blvd. It is in walking distance to Cary High School, Henry Adams Elementary, and East Cary Middle. It has banks nearby or on the property currently. It has a grocry store, Harris Teeter. It has some fast food resturants as well. It has 2 office buildings already on site that could be replaced with modern buildings. It is owned by York Properties and I just wonder why Smedes York has taken the opportunity to bring something that has all the amenities there and bring density to it.It is owned by York Properties. What are your thoughts of bringing housing, retail, and office space to this area in a mixed use way. Maybe 3 or four 7 story office buildings there. A sky bridge over Cary Towne Blvd by the Mcdonalds. The Nimbys are almost none existance there because of the adjacent properties are commerical in nature.

South Hills Mall
This area could properly do less commercial and more housing/office options. The commercial part is pretty much taken care of with Crossroads. However it can incorporate a 10 story hotel to replace the old 4 story one already onsite. It has great freeway access so office space/conference center would be good with this hotel. Tear down all the buildings and bring Borders over to the center as well as open a smaller but definitely needed grocery store. CCB bank is there and so a couple more banks wouldn't hurt.

I think these two centers could create some quality density to the area.

I know the area is heavily congested. I grew up there beside Cary Towne center. To solve this problem. I would create a designated Trolley line From Crossroads to CTC. The town of cary already has it proposed in the short term future to widen walnut to 3 lanes each way with a turn lane equaling a total of 7 lanes. Why not make the extra lane each way a trolley line. Then people would park at one shopping center and ride the trolley to the other. Those that live in these areas would then have more options of shopping and so forth. Maybe this would cut down on some of the traffic.  The properties facing walnut are proposed to be commercial properties, how about mixed use in some cases. 3 or 4 story tall buildings with stops for the trolley line along the way.

I am up for your thoughts about this potential.

Edited by Cary NC, 07 November 2006 - 10:10 AM.

[carynative]

Cary NC, on Nov 7 2006, 10:36 AM, said:

I know the area is heavily congested. I grew up there beside Cary Towne center. To solve this problem. I would create a designated Trolley line From Crossroads to CTC. The town of cary already has it proposed in the short term future to widen walnut to 3 lanes each way with a turn lane equaling a total of 7 lanes. Why not make the extra lane each way a trolley line. Then people would park at one shopping center and ride the trolley to the other. Those that live in these areas would then have more options of shopping and so forth. Maybe this would cut down on some of the traffic.  The properties facing walnut are proposed to be commercial properties, how about mixed use in some cases. 3 or 4 story tall buildings with stops for the trolley line along the way.

I am up for your thoughts about this potential.

I don't know if they'd think about a Trolley line since the C-Tran busses go on that route already.  I'm all in favor of redeveloping both South Hills and the Cary Village Square areas.  You may have some NIMBYs on the Cary Towne Blvd part of Cary Village Square since it backs up to an older established neighborhood, but there is a large tree buffer there already.

[ncwebguy]

To me,  Waverly Place screams "this is the future than never came" which is kinda sad.

Does anyone know why it failed?  I know the HT moving across the street next to the Wal-Mart didn't help, but I though Wellspring/Whole Foods would help soften that blow.  Did no other "organic" stores move in nearby, like Ridgewood in West Raleigh or Eastgate in Chapel Hill?

I saw a movie there once about a year or two before the theater closed, but know that space would be hard to reuse as anything else once Crossroads, and later Bever Creek movie theaters opend.  With the deographics in that area, it could have supported an independent theater, but with Galaxy so close, that would be difficult as well.

Did the ring of fast food and banks on the perimiter scare people away from the shops in the heart of the complex?  Was it ever marketed as a shopping destination?  The "new" North Hills' escalators reminded me of Waverly Place's, but NH's hides the parking while Waverly place just went from one set of (mostly empty) store fronts to another.

South Hills could be rennovated, but recent history suggests they don't want to.  They seem to be happy with their lack of density -- the CCB/Sun Trust, Kerr Drugs (former Mall tenant), K&S Cafeteria, etc.  are islands in the sea of mostly empty parking.  This development continues on the other side of Buck Jones, with Jellybeans, Bullwinkles, Rey's, etc.  The topography on the west side makes that development reasonable, but the flat east side has no excuse.  Why are the hotels at US 1 and Walnut all low end?  Red Roof Inn and Motel 6 are even owned by the same company.

Cary Village is another victim of too much spread out.  It looks like they tried to replicate Cameron Village, but couldn't draw tenants there instead of Cary Town Center.  It would feel a lot more urban if Mac's Tavern was closer to the Galaxy, maybe in the building with the Imp Grille near the theater and office building.  When Winn Dixie (and later Magnolia Marketplace) pulled out, they had a chance to do some infill, but chose to "stay the course" instead.

Even CTC eventually saw the benefits of infill (sort of), replacing the Pizza Inn and Wachovia with the Jared's, Starbucks and Pei Wei.

I don't think a trolley would work for the Walnut Street corridor because there is little to no residential density along it.  90% + of the traffic there comes from outside the area.   The lack of density in place "forces" people to get in their car to go to the grocery store.  The multiple closings of stores at the Borders shopping center -- remember Kinetixs? in additon to Hannafords, the golf store, and Lowes' Food -- says the market does not want to get anything there other than books and coffee.  How many people would park in either CTC, South Hills, or Crossroads and then wait for a trolley vs. getting in their car and going on their next destination on their own schedule?

[NCMike1981]

Harris Teeter was in Waverly Place before moving across the street beside Wal-Mart around '95, Whole Foods is in the old HT place I believe. I'm suprised Eckerds is still in the shopping center instead of freestanding at an intersection somewhere.

[avery]

I've always like this shopping center and wished it would have done better.  The problem is the traffic.  There are only two ways out of that center.  You either have to take a right onto Tryon or the light near Whole Foods.  The signaled intersection is difficult because you have to compete with Harris Teeter and Wal-Mart traffic across the street.

[carynative]

avery, on Nov 8 2006, 11:07 AM, said:

I've always like this shopping center and wished it would have done better.  The problem is the traffic.  There are only two ways out of that center.  You either have to take a right onto Tryon or the light near Whole Foods.  The signaled intersection is difficult because you have to compete with Harris Teeter and Wal-Mart traffic across the street.

Until you said, it, I didn't realize that this was one of my problems with that development.  I'm hoping that the developers will work with Cary to alleviate this.  My doctor's office is located behind Waverly and we have to use those same entrances and exits.  It's very tough, especially at lunctime and satrudays.

[Subway Scoundrel]

There use to be a sub-conscience there years ago.  I think the idea that a patron actually has to walk and can not park in the no-parking zone right at the front door is why this place has stuggled  

That is why the SC where Harris Teeter has been succesful.  You can fit a big SUV near the front door that everyone can see.

Edited by Subway Scoundrel, 08 November 2006 - 04:01 PM.

[urbanvb]

Quote

Developers are building 1.7 million square feet of offices across the region. But Cary has not caught the building bug. There weren't any leasable offices under construction in Cary at the end of September, according to Highwoods. And only 60,000 square feet have been built in the town since 2004.

That's bound to change. Half of the Triangle's 2 million square feet of proposed offices are planned in Cary. And recent deals could nudge those proposals out of the pipeline and out of the ground.

New and expanding companies have caused the Triangle's office vacancy rate to drop to 13.2 percent from 16 percent two years ago.

story

[rooster8]

Yay - more suburban office parks!

[Jones133]

I think its time for Cary to pick a spot and start going urban with a full street grid of some sort, multi-use buildings and footprints pulled up to to sidewalks......I know there is a plan for downtown to have mid-rise throughout at somepoint, but hey, how about going ahead and trying to lure in a developer to say the Maynard, Chatham intersection and plop a ten story office building on two of the corners. There is already that new wierd looking thing on Chatham pulled up to the road with out door dining. Plus this corner kind of could start connecting Cary Towne Center to Downtown in a roundabout way instead of say plowing through Walnut and its older neighborhoods. Just rambling, and trying have some vision for smallville over there.....

[rooster8]

I don't mean to sound so harsh in my comments, but Cary seems to have little character beyond the immediate vicinity of downtown.  If you look up suburbia in an encyclopedia, it should say: See Cary, NC.

Having said that, I think it is a nice place with fairly progressive ideas concerning recreation with the numerous greenways, parks, etc., and they have pretty good zoning restrictions.  There is definitely sprawl, but it is pretty sprawl.  

[raleightransplant]

Jones133, on Nov 14 2006, 11:35 AM, said:

I think its time for Cary to pick a spot and start going urban with a full street grid of some sort, multi-use buildings and footprints pulled up to to sidewalks......I know there is a plan for downtown to have mid-rise throughout at somepoint, but hey, how about going ahead and trying to lure in a developer to say the Maynard, Chatham intersection and plop a ten story office building on two of the corners. There is already that new wierd looking thing on Chatham pulled up to the road with out door dining. Plus this corner kind of could start connecting Cary Towne Center to Downtown in a roundabout way instead of say plowing through Walnut and its older neighborhoods. Just rambling, and trying have some vision for smallville over there.....

I would like to see this as well.  Some people don't notice or pay attention due to it's suburban reputation and sprawl, but Cary is very ethnically diverse.  There is a full-blown "Little India" sprouting up at Chatham and Maynard.  Any city in the Triangle would love to have an area like that.

[DanRNC]

I honestly have no problem with Cary other than it being bland but a lot of people like that-heck we have major cities in this state that have less character. I like the Regency Park venue although they could probably add some more diverse acts to the schedule.

[ChiefJoJo]

If TTA Phase I was online within 3 years, you'd see buildings going up in no time in DT Cary.

[urbanesq]

ChiefJoJo, on Nov 14 2006, 04:05 PM, said:

If TTA Phase I was online within 3 years, you'd see buildings going up in no time in DT Cary.

absolutely.  no doubt in my mind about this at all.

Also, the new Kane-like makeover of Waverly should inspire an urban density node?

[RaleighRob]

rooster8, on Nov 14 2006, 12:41 PM, said:

If you look up suburbia in an encyclopedia, it should say: See Cary, NC.

You've read my mind!!!  

[davidals]

raleightransplant, on Nov 14 2006, 12:47 PM, said:

There is a full-blown "Little India" sprouting up at Chatham and Maynard.  Any city in the Triangle would love to have an area like that.

The greatest thing about Cary easily; the Galaxy Cinema is a real godsend as well.

[thewhister]

rooster8, on Nov 7 2006, 09:10 AM, said:

You can actually see the evolution from theater to gym to gym.  Too bad some of the current second story spaces couldn't be retrofitted for residential purposes.  As far as suburban shopping centers go, it's a nice place.  I think it's problem is that it is too sprawling and people aren't/weren't willing to walk all around it.  Today's society likes to park right in front of the door and it is hard to do that here.

Interesting statement.  Guess our development pattern has made us lazying in that it is just too much effort to walk - a sad statement yet very true.  Hopefully with the popularity of North Hills this will be a good redevelopment.  Seems like the other issue is that there is no visibility from Tryon and Kidare Farm road.  The site is landscaping beautiful but unless you know that it was there, you would not be able to find this place.