77 replies to this topic

[orulz]

Looks like Zona Lofts has it's website up:
www.zonalofts.com.

Wow, a design. Next to (maybe) Greenbridge in Chapel Hill, this is the most eye-popping urban architecture I've seen proposed for NC yet. The rendering isn't very detailed, but I think I love it. Very fun design. Hope it doesn't turn too many people off. I wish they had provided more context (the buildings & hills in the background behind, for example. The contrast between the new building and the old Chrysler building is both astonishing and interesting. It's modular construction, which is totally OK, but you can definitely tell by looking at it, so I'm not quite sure how I feel about that from an architectural standpoint. But that makes it affordable - which is awesome.

From this rendering, I'm Not sure I quite understand what's going on in the ground floor of the new building. Is that retail? The website says there will be an internet cafe and a small bandstand. Looks they have an entrance to the parking deck on Coxe to the far right. Why put that on the front of the building instead of the alleyway behind the lot? (Collier Ave.) Guess that's not too bad, though.

Coxe Avenue is a street with a lot of potential, but as you go south of Hilliard it starts to feel seedy. This project will definitely change that.

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[hauntedheadnc]

Color me impressed.  Especially if they keep that color scheme.  For some reason, blue always seems to go well in an urban setting.

[orulz]

I think the blue stripes on the side of the building are solar panels - given that the website advertises this building has solar power, and that the stripes are on the south face of the tower. Far as I know, solar panels don't come in anything besides blue.

[orulz]

Here are the minutes from the September 7th Downtown Comission meeting where this project was presented. The project has been revised since then and went before the DTC again on November 10, 2006 so I'm not sure how these comments apply today.

Quote

FORMAL REVIEW
Zona Lofts - new construction and renovation
Conabeer Chrysler Building
Mr. Glines presented the DDR staff report for this project. He explained to the Commission that this
project was still under formal review; that it had been continued from last month’s meeting. He reminded
them that this is a Level 3 project, therefore it requires final approval from the Planning and Zoning
Commission and City Council.
Page 3
Robert Todd handed out a site plan, drainage plan, landscaping plan, tentative floor plan for both parking
and modular unit layouts, typical modular unit elevations, vertical section cuts, and elevations for all four
sides of the building. He also brought display boards for the presentation.
Todd described the details and materials:
West side: will include a green screen and passive venting of exhaust from the parking garage. The
building had been “moved down” 2 and a half feet, and now there is an added retail access on Coxe
Avenue.
North side: has architectural articulation through mix of open terraces. This side also shows the aperture
windows that provide added day lighting.
East: glass used around the Banks/Collier corner
South: dashed squares on drawing represent the windows into each o fhte units on the south side.
Placement of photovoltaics is shown and increases vertical articulation.
Materials used will be buff color precast concrete, and they will be using windowsills of Chrysler
Conabeer as context for color and material.
Locally mined sand/aggregate from Tyndell, South Carolina will be used.
Other materials will be sourced from areas as local as possible.
The development team has already started marketing Zona. A price sheet with tentative prices by floor
was handed out. Proposed starting points from prices are $170 SF and go to $400 SF.
The following comments were made by the Downtown Commission:
-I admire the effort made to redesign the building so that a street level entrance on Coxe would exist for
the retail space.
-How many “open”terraces would exist on the north side? – (3, plus a penthouse slot)
-You may need to continue studying the play of light externally and internally because of the way the
units are designed , not enough windows.
- Hope that a commitment to keeping a stock of these for rentals is kept as well
- Keep in mind ADA accessibility issues.
-I would like staff to advise whether this meets key pedestrian streets intent (on Coxe). (it does)
Commission should look at revising key pedestrian streets requirement.
-I am not sure if there is a clear base, middle and cap structure to the design, and the base looks weak.
-I feel like it has a very definite base middle and cap and that the base is defined enough.
- What level of LEED certification will you be pursuing? (silver)
- where will the mechanicals be “hidden” ( using a very innovative system for HVAC, etc: Japanese
company that makes a series of linked heat pumps that not only has individual controls but circulates and
controls per side of building and or specified zone to take advantage of solar gain)
- The main entrance does not read or show up very well, why not have fun with it? Do something that will
really add something positive to the City.
- I don’t feel like the pedestrian experience is as fleshed out as possible, details not clear. I am hoping the
street level façade will look more vital.
The following comment was made by members of the public who attended the meeting
- I live in the Sawyer Motor Building and I moved here because of how quaint Asheville is, how it is all
four or five story buildings. I think this project and the next project to be reviewed will make Asheville
lose its appeal.
-I like the design, it is good, but I don’t understand what all of these details are. What is an aperture
window (architect describes that an aperture is just another word for an opening, and that these windows
Page 4
are like bay windows being pushed to one side to try and capture light from the north side) But I don’t
like the height, and I would like to see an elevation that shows the building in context.
-Although I agree with arguments for density, I don’t think people come to Asheville to look at
skyscrapers. The building is too tall.
Vice Chair Pat Whalen said that he would like to acknowledge and honor that presence and the comments
of the public during this review.
Kitty Brown noted that while she personally does not enjoy modern architecture, and that she would
prefer to not see tall buildings in downtown, that she is voting yes not only because the project meets the
guidelines as established but also because this project supports smart growth/anti-sprawl, is a much
needed option for people of moderate income, and is very progressive in its use of energy conservation
measures.
John Rogers noted that the most beloved building in downtown is the Jackson building, also one of the
tallest. He thinks that inserting more residents into the south slope is a major step forward in expanding
the livability of Downtown.
Chuck Tessier noted that height is a good thing, that he would prefer the city core would move up rather
than out. Regardless of the design, he believes that a fifty foot by twelve foot unit such as proposed by
this project can not be defined as good living.
Pat Whalen made a motion to approve the project as presented. Guadalupe Chavarria seconded. The
remaining members present voted yes on the project except for Chuck Tessier, who voted no on the
design.

[hauntedheadnc]

Great -- looks like it's officially a go.  Now, if we can just get the Ravenscroft project approved, good things will be happening.

Asheville, quaint?  My ass.  I really hate that word, and I wish the people who keep moving here because it's "quaint" would go find someplace that really is quaint and leave us alone here.

[rooster8]

The person who said quaint may have moved from L.A. or Miami.  To them, it is quaint.  Although I agree, if they want quaint, at least our definition, they're in the wrong place.

[hauntedheadnc]

"Quaint" is Asheville's mortal enemy.  I hope the downtown hippies don't catch word of the city being described this way, or else they'll be rioting in the streets and looking to set fire to any place daring to sell lace or porcelain dolls.

[orulz]

Indeed. I don't get it. These people think that blocking everything over five stories will magically allow them to escape from the ever-advancing tide of development and progress, into a magical snow-globe of boutique indie coffee shops and preservational warm-and-fuzziness.

The truth is, Asheville is DEFINED by buildings in the 10-story-plus range. City hall. Jackson building. Battery Park. The (never constructed) Grove Arcade tower. This person who moved to Asheville because they like how everything is four- and five- stories is living in a world completely seperate from reality - because, by that logic, they shouldn't have even moved to Asheville in the first place!

Thank God that city council knows not to listen to the sort of NIMBY that contradicts himself so readily like this.

[hauntedheadnc]

Well, at least they listened this time, so the Zona Lofts will be going up fairly soon I imagine.  The NIMBY vitriole was a bit more bitter with the Ravenscroft project.  Makes me worried.  Do you think the quaintmongers will be able to shut that one down?

[orulz]

No, I don't think the NIMBYs will get Ravenscroft entirely shut down. At least some of the phases are likely to get developed. More on that in the thread...

[cinco]

asheville has done it again... i LOVE the looks of zona. the red square in the center-ish part of the building has me feeling all post-modern. it makes me think of de stijl... i love the fact that the black mountian college energy still resonates through these haunted hills.

i think i'll drink a glass of wine and do the robot, in honor of this project.

[orulz]

Looks like Zona has been redesigned:

I don't quite get what's going on in this rendering. It's just an elevation so maybe I'll reserve judgement, but it looks like it went from something funky, cool, glassy, and modern, to something rather resembling a towering mausoleum built in the 1960s, made of EIFS and brick veneer. The rendering also makes it look like it's grown from 13 stories to 17 or 18 stories.

Sigh.

[rooster8]

Geez - what happened?  It's like the architects changed or something.

[hauntedheadnc]

Counting the number of floors on the floorplans diagrams, it still tops out at 14 floors.  It's ugly as sin now though, for certain.  If developers keep up this bait-and-switch crap, I can really begin to understand the average Asheville NIMBY.

[hauntedheadnc]

Should I send this email?  I was stewing over this apparent redesign and cooked up this email.  Before I sent it though I figured it might be a wiser idea to run it past some other opinions.

---

Dear Sir or Madam,

I'm writing in regards to what appears to be a drastic redesign of the Zona Lofts building.  I supported this project and fervently hoped the city would approve its construction although now I cannot say the same after having seen newer renderings of this building.

What happened?  The building as proposed would have been perhaps the only quality piece of modern architecture in Asheville, whose modern buildings are graceless, hostile boxes.  Now it appears the Zona Lofts have been redesigned as a graceless, hostile box to blend in with all the others.  Frankly, the rendering at www.zonalofts.com now appears to show a cheap 1960's college dormitory.  I note there was an attempt made to make the building palatable by adding clownish and tacky colored panels on the lower floors, but frankly that's just insult to injury.

The previous design made me excited to see this project go up, and I'd even considered looking into acquiring a unit.  I've changed my mind now though.  The Zona Lofts as newly designed is too ugly for me to want to have anything to do with.  For those of us who support downtown development, when firms like yours present a wonderful rendering and then quietly mutilate that concept into something as hideous as the new Zona Lofts, it's very difficult to justify our support of growth to other area residents who want no new downtown construction at all.

You should be ashamed of yourselves for getting area urbanists' hopes up with the old design and then crushing them with this horrible new design.

Sincerely,
Me

[orulz]

I say go ahead and send it. I sent an e-mail to them, too.

[hauntedheadnc]

What did yours say?

[orulz]

Hi,

Just thought I'd express my opinion.

I don't care for the new design of Zona Lofts. The first one was glassy, modern, funky, and.. just cool. From the rendering, the new one looks more like a towering mausoleum of brick veneer and EIFS, with a 1960s-era public works building stacked on top. It went from a coherent, striking, and modern motif, to something jumbled up, and in my opinion, second rate. What happened? Is it just that the new rendering doesn't do the building justice and I'm confused? Or did feedback push you towards a more "conventional" design with "conventional" materials?

I wish you'd change it back.

Thanks,
[me]

[hauntedheadnc]

Those beotchs.  This is the email I got in response to the one I sent them:

---

Dear [Me],

Thank you for your feedback.  The rendering on the website is to show an example of the materials being used on the building.  Those are not necessarily the colors that will be used.  These materials are, in fact, “greener” and more sustainable than the originals and they allow us to keep the costs down so the units can remain affordable.  Keep in mind that this is not exactly what the building will look like, but it is a lot closer than the original design.  The original design is for modular units, and with the size of the building, we were not able to go modular.

Please don’t hesitate to provide feedback because all ideas and opinions are very important to us.

Sincerely,
Ashley Evans
Marketing Coordinator
Zona Lofts

---

So, what they're saying here is that they had the bad concept in mind all along, and probably just presented the good concept to the city in hopes of gaining approval.  Classic bait and switch.

[orulz]

Got the exact same reply. Must be a form letter.

EIFS is more sustainable than glass? Better insulation, sure, but the damn stuff falls apart and looks like hell so fast it makes may head spin. The tiny porthole windows and the absurdist architecture make me want to vomit.