42 replies to this topic

[dfwtiger]

This sounds like it could be interesting...
http://www.al.com/bu.../....xml&coll=2

[kayman]

Yet, I heard about this back in late September.  There are also word floating around about a redevelopment of the massive Old Ensley Mill site off I-20/59.

Edited by Leonard23, 30 November 2006 - 01:36 PM.

[someguyfrombham]

Leonard23, on Nov 30 2006, 12:18 PM, said:

Yet, I heard about this back in late September.  They are also word floating around about a redevelopment of the massive Old Ensley Mill site off I-20/59.

Wasn't there some architecture company that was planning to move into the little abandoned skyscraper in downtown Ensley?  Whatever happened to that?

[kayman]

someguyfrombham, on Nov 30 2006, 01:26 PM, said:

Wasn't there some architecture company that was planning to move into the little abandoned skyscraper in downtown Ensley?  Whatever happened to that?

The city dropped the ball once again with incentives to help the company renovate and improve utilities and infastructure for the building.

[Blazer85]

Can someone show this area highlighted on a map or something?  I'm not sure I know where it is.  I've heard it may come somewhat close to linking up with the Railroad Reservation Park.

[Owsley9]

Blazer85, on Dec 1 2006, 08:46 AM, said:

Can someone show this area highlighted on a map or something?  I'm not sure I know where it is.  I've heard it may come somewhat close to linking up with the Railroad Reservation Park.

Someone on the AL.com Birmingham forum also had a great idea with building a 35,000 seat stadium for UAB on the border of the property.  They're looking to tie-in with UAB, so this could be a great match.  I just wrote the Soffer Organization and supported this idea.  (Giving credit to the original person, of course).

[Blazer85]

Any updates on this?

It's supposed to look similar to the SouthSide Works in Pittsburgh.  If so,  

[kayman]

I don't know.  I guess like most, waiting until after the mayoral election before they decide to start their project.

[kayman]

Wal-Mart eyeing store for old Titusville site

No, now it looks like the shortsighted has decided to bring in a freakin' WAL-MART!      What the hell!   The last thing we need in the City of Birmingham after they have handed that retailer bascially free money tax free for the Eastwood and Roebuck locations.  

For once I agree with Councilman Steven Hoyt:

Quote

"For that to be one of the most visible sites in this city, we've got to have better retail than that.................I've sat on that board and we haven't had anybody but Wal-Mart come to the table because that's all we sought."

I am even angry with Shelia Smoot because she knows that with a highly visible site so close to downtown that we could be doing much better than Wal-Mart.  

I am really does anybody think Wal-Mart would even try to do an urban store in this location?  I would rather see a more progressive and urban oriented grocer like Publix, an urban Super Target, or them keep shopping the site around and push the Jeffco Economic and Industrial Development Authority to continue talks like Soffer Organization for a mixed used development.

[Blazer85]

That's an interesting problem.  While I'd probably prefer the Soffer Organization development, I wouldn't be absolutely disgusted by a Walmart.  Not the nicest place in the world, but it is definitely a popular shopping destination that's affordable for pretty much everyone.  With the growing downtown population a Walmart closer by might actually be a good thing.  I know alot of people detest developments like this, but I don't think it's all that bad.  Worse than the proposed Soffer plan, yes, but better than what currently sits there.  But even so, I'm sure we haven't heard the last of this debate.

[kayman]

A public hearing by the Jefferson County Economic and Industrial Development Authority is set @ 7:30 a.m. on May 2 at at the World Business Office at 530 Beacon Parkway West on Red Mountain.  It is discuss this very site of possible developments for the Trinty Steele parcel.  

However, I do find it odd as hell as to why they have a meeting set so early in the morning.  Who in the general public has free time to go to a meeting at 7:30 a.m.?

[kayman]

Even more new developments, Smoot has spoken out against the Wal-Mart development due to the sketchy details of deal.

Quote

What I don't want to happen is that this board is adversarial with the community, and the community is adversarial with the board and then the county gets dragged into it. We've got a mayor's race going on. We just don't need this board - this is the best board Jefferson County has, in my opinion. We don't need to get involved in city politics right now. We just don't need to be dragged in, and that's what's going to happen. This is going to become a political football."

Smoot has also announced that there will be a town hall meeting at Payne Chapel AME Church with the neighborhood leaders over this development on Tuesday, April 24 at 6 p.m.

[convulso]

here's a column by jerry underwood in today's bham news about the trinity site. he sort of endorses the wal mart proposal mainly because it's the most well-developed one. i'm not sure i agree, since i think a dead area lying fallow is better than its being used in a mediocre way:

http://www.al.com/bi...i....xml&coll=2

so where exactly is this site? i already knew it was somewhere off I-65, but i didn't know it could be close enough to UAB to have a UAB tie-in, as the underwood column mentions. maybe if i knew where the site was, i'd come around on the wal-mart proposal. the column makes it seem much closer to downtown than i had realized.

[kayman]

convulso, on Apr 22 2007, 08:00 AM, said:

here's a column by jerry underwood in today's bham news about the trinity site. he sort of endorses the wal mart proposal mainly because it's the most well-developed one. i'm not sure i agree, since i think a dead area lying fallow is better than its being used in a mediocre way:

http://www.al.com/bi...i....xml&coll=2

so where exactly is this site? i already knew it was somewhere off I-65, but i didn't know it could be close enough to UAB to have a UAB tie-in, as the underwood column mentions. maybe if i knew where the site was, i'd come around on the wal-mart proposal. the column makes it seem much closer to downtown than i had realized.

Although I always forget its exact location myself, and I lived only 5 minutes away from it before I came back to Oxford for this internship.  It's immediately west of I-65 of the 4th Avenue South/3rd Avenue South interchange.  The parcel itself is bordered by I-65 on its east side.  

As you said Convulso, it is much better to leave it fallow than develop it for a Wal-Mart.  Although there is a need for grocer in the Southside, western part of the Center City area, Wal-Mart IMO is a bad choice.  Now if Wal-Mart was to comply and build an upper-end urban store with a parking deck like the North DeKalb Wal-Mart right off I-85 in Metro Atlanta, then I might reconsider.  

However, I would much rather see something like Vestavia Hills City Center Link with a grocer, retail shops (like Kohl's, Marshalls, Stein Mart) and restaurants (Chili's, Applebee's, ect.) built upon that site.  It would satisfy the need for a grocer and the needs for an actual retail center for those in the Center City.

[Alabadrock]

Leonard23, on Apr 22 2007, 11:37 AM, said:

Although I always forget its exact location myself, and I live only 5 minutes away from it before I came back to Oxford for this internship. It immediately west of I-65 of the 4th Avenue South/3rd Avenue South interchange. The parcel itself is bordered by I-65 on its east side.

As you said Convulso, it is much better to leave it fallow than develop it for a Wal-Mart. Although there is a need for grocer in the Southside, western part of the Center City area, Wal-Mart IMO is a bad choice. Now if "urban" Wal-Mart to comply and build an upper-end urban store with a parking deck like the North DeKalb Wal-Mart right off I-85 in Metro Atlanta, then I might reconsider.

However, I would much rather see something like Vestavia Hills City Center Link with a grocer, retail shops (like Kohl's, Marshalls, Stein Mart) and restaurants (Chili's, Applebee's, ect.) built upon that site. It would satisfy the need for a grocer and the needs for an actual retail center for those in the Center City.

Yea, booo for a regular Wal-Mart I say.  UAB tie ins would be wonderful, but, would there be any real chance for that?  I'm doubtin it.  But, UAB's always gonna need some expansion space.  But, I'd rather them beef up there region of downtown before the bleed elsewhere.

An urban shopping center would be great, I say.  What would be cool is if one portion could be set aside for a community recreation center.  Not some lame half done kinda thing, but, you know, something nice.  A multi level center could do wonders for the downtown area.  The main reason, I believe, that there is so much crime in the area is because the people that do the bad stuff sit around wondering,"What should I do today."  They get bored, they think of old grudges, or that they want drugs cause they wanna have fun, or something, so they go and get it.  If you give people something to do, we'll all be better off.

Stuff like indoor courts, a swimming pool, exercise equipment, a rooftop plaza with vendors, and a food court/cafeteria would be awesome.

[dfwtiger]

Alabadrock, on Apr 22 2007, 05:41 PM, said:

Yea, booo for a regular Wal-Mart I say.  UAB tie ins would be wonderful, but, would there be any real chance for that?  I'm doubtin it.  But, UAB's always gonna need some expansion space.  But, I'd rather them beef up there region of downtown before the bleed elsewhere.

An urban shopping center would be great, I say.  What would be cool is if one portion could be set aside for a community recreation center.  Not some lame half done kinda thing, but, you know, something nice.  A multi level center could do wonders for the downtown area.  The main reason, I believe, that there is so much crime in the area is because the people that do the bad stuff sit around wondering,"What should I do today."  They get bored, they think of old grudges, or that they want drugs cause they wanna have fun, or something, so they go and get it.  If you give people something to do, we'll all be better off.

Stuff like indoor courts, a swimming pool, exercise equipment, a rooftop plaza with vendors, and a food court/cafeteria would be awesome.

I don't want to see a big box retailer in the city.....However, if it must happen, I would rather see a Target.

[Alabadrock]

dfwtiger, on Apr 23 2007, 08:00 AM, said:

I don't want to see a big box retailer in the city.....However, if it must happen, I would rather see a Target.

Well, you know, the think is, who says that some big hulk of a wal-mart typed building has to go here.  Birmingham has been a good place for new concepts, and they've seemed to work out well.  Why not try that here.  There's no law, or rule, against any store coming in and building an upscale "town-center" like retail/residential/office type area.  Something with buildings that are maybe 5 stories high, or vary around that.  That could work wonders.

[Blazer85]

Not sure last night's meeting was terribly constructive.  Smoot and others are trying to convince people to hold out and wait for other offers.  But community residents seem desperate for ANYTHING and seem willing to accept this Walmart proposal.  

Yes, it will create 400 new jobs or so and maybe have a spillover effect, but it's just Walmart.  There's another Walmart just 3-4 miles down I-65... I'm not sure another one is really needed.  Would it be better than nothing? Sure.  But I'm of the opinion that we can wait and see what else maybe materializes.  

There have apparently been about 10 developers that have expressed interest in the site... Walmart just so happens to be the most aggressive in pursuing it.  Personally, I say we need to really push those other interested developers, gauge their interest, offer some incentives if need be, and then move from there.  If there's really no other interest than Walmart, then by all means move forward with it.  But I doubt that's the case.

[Alabadrock]

I'm just gonna yell it this time: NO WAL-MART!!!

Dang, I think throwing away the possibility of 400 jobs will by outweighed by the smart growth brough on by better development proposals.

[kayman]

Wal-Mart seen as win-win by Holt and Isom

2 others voice their 2 cents on the site, Bryan Holt and Hugh Isom.  

Quote

Holt said he believes Wal-Mart is the best use for the site, unless there is an industrial use similar to a Honda plant, but that is not what residents want and need.

Such an industrial use would likely require significant public incentives, he said. Wal-Mart is not asking for incentives and its offer includes $1 million for neighborhood enhancements.

"That is a fantastic windfall for the city of Birmingham and that neighborhood," Holt said, adding that he believes Wal-Mart will draw additional development in a shadow anchor center. "They'll line up like they do next to every Wal-Mart."

While I agree the site is not likely to see anything as upscale of The Summit, we can't just any old thing be built there just because Wal-Mart are offering.  Sometimes things need to be left vacant until the timing is right, and this may be the case with this site.  The fact that Holt believe another industrial development for this site maybe the only other option than Wal-Mart.  This makes me wonder what does he really know about the demographics of the area within the 5-mile radius of this site.  This area includes the City Center which general concensus is against anything industrial.   This ideology of "anything is better than nothing" has led to unsustainable development in the suburbs and practically dead areas like Eastwood and Roebuck.

I would much prefer the method of ideology following that of Jeffrey Bayer:

Quote

Jeffrey Bayer, founder and principal of Bayer Properties LLC, developer of The Summit, said there is a simple solution to the controversy: an objective study done by professionals that will show what will be successful on the Trinity site.

But the key, Bayer said, is for people to listen to the professionals' work and take the emotion out of the process.

The work would be based on demographics, such as age, income and employment, and psychographics, which are lifestyle characteristics.

"Retailers look at demographics and psychographics, and they don't lie," he said.

This is what will to the right type of development that is sustainable for the site, not some development that would be