547 replies to this topic

[Greedo]

jayblogger, on Jan 26 2006, 07:28 PM, said:

low cost alone does not equal a biz plan... especially in the airport/airline world.

No it doesn't.  But it's amazing that European carriers have been able to hold that price for 5+ years by focusing on volume.  Southwest too.  Obviously they need to effectively manage overhead (ie fuel expenses), but I don't think it's unreasonable for an uber-inexpensive flight across the state or Lake Michigan from GR.  If other countries are doing it, why can't we?

[PBJ]

Greedo, on Jan 30 2006, 11:03 AM, said:

No it doesn't. But it's amazing that European carriers have been able to hold that price for 5+ years by focusing on volume. Southwest too. Obviously they need to effectively manage overhead (ie fuel expenses), but I don't think it's unreasonable for an uber-inexpensive flight across the state or Lake Michigan from GR. If other countries are doing it, why can't we?

That's correct, SouthWest is a pretty amazing case study on how to do things right in the airline industry.  One of the reasons flights are so expensive is due to fuel costs.  How does SouthWest do it?  They have extremely good business credit, and can sign long term fixed pricing deals on fuel.  Airlines like NWA, and others that have filed for Bankruptcy don't have that luxury, they have to pay market rates.  That alone costs the non-fixed price airlines to lose MILLIONS immediately from the bottom line.  FWIW, There was a story about this on NPR a while back, so I'm not just spewing things out of my rear.

EDIT: I also believe that the EU subsidizes part of the airline industry, I'll have to do some looking

Edited by PBJ, 30 January 2006 - 10:29 AM.

[snoogit]

Greedo, on Jan 30 2006, 11:03 AM, said:

No it doesn't.  But it's amazing that European carriers have been able to hold that price for 5+ years by focusing on volume.  Southwest too.  Obviously they need to effectively manage overhead (ie fuel expenses), but I don't think it's unreasonable for an uber-inexpensive flight across the state or Lake Michigan from GR.  If other countries are doing it, why can't we?

Take a flight to Lake Michigan out of GR? The lake isnt that far away Instead of planes It'd better to see a light rail system that links Holland, Grand Haven, Muskegon, and GR together.

[PBJ]

snoogit, on Jan 30 2006, 12:01 PM, said:

Take a flight to Lake Michigan out of GR? The lake isnt that far away Instead of planes It'd better to see a light rail system that links Holland, Grand Haven, Muskegon, and GR together.

I think it was Across the lake, no to the lake

[snoogit]

PBJ, on Jan 30 2006, 12:05 PM, said:

I think it was Across the lake, no to the lake

Ahhhhh I though GRR had flights direct to Milwaukee? maybe not low cost though.

[dbrok]

snoogit, on Jan 30 2006, 12:11 PM, said:

Ahhhhh I though GRR had flights direct to Milwaukee? maybe not low cost though.

They do, Midwest flies from GRR to Milwaukee about 4 times per day. Usually tickets are between $140 and $190.

[snoogit]

dbrok, on Jan 30 2006, 12:14 PM, said:

They do, Midwest flies from GRR to Milwaukee about 4 times per day. Usually tickets are between $140 and $190.

Thats cheaper then the Lake Express, although you would have to rent a vehicle...

[dbrok]

snoogit, on Jan 30 2006, 12:16 PM, said:

Thats cheaper then the Lake Express, although you would have to rent a vehicle...

Yeah, I think it's about $80 round trip per passenger and over $100 if you bring your car. Flying is definitely faster, especially from GR. By the time you drive to the ferry in Muskegon and they load everyone on, it's still a 2.5 hour ride. Flights are normally about 30 mins.

[Yankee Fan]

We received a bid request for consulting services on the new airport parking ramp this morning.  So, I guess that this will be moving forward.

[sparky05]

ROCK ON, GRR!

I love having excuses to go to the Airport!

[NorthEnder]

Yankee Fan, on Dec 1 2006, 11:38 AM, said:

We received a bid request for consulting services on the new airport parking ramp this morning.  So, I guess that this will be moving forward.

Is this in relation to the work that is already going on out there, or above and beyond that?

[snoogit]

NorthEnder, on Dec 2 2006, 08:56 AM, said:

Is this in relation to the work that is already going on out there, or above and beyond that?

above and beyond I believe, the ramp is going to be built on top of the current surface lot out there.

[albertaresident]

I saw an article somewhere that Frontier Airlines is focussing on expanding in smaller American cities.  Has anyone had experience with this airline?  Would this carrier be worth pursuing for GRR?

[GR8scott]

I've seen them some where before probably out west whcih i don't know if GRR needs more western connections at this point, LA would be nice in the future, I wish air canada wouold come back with int flights to Toronto (were still on the route map?), also I've used US air and thought it was nice too bad they pulled out from Phila and Pitt. And another former airline ATA (lots of flights to Hawaii)

Southwest would be the best carrier to bring here IMO with flights to SoCal (doubtful)

jetblue or air tran would be good discount carriers to have

Edited by GR8scott, 12 December 2006 - 03:55 PM.

[NorthEnder]

PBJ, on Jan 30 2006, 11:20 AM, said:

That's correct, SouthWest is a pretty amazing case study on how to do things right in the airline industry.  One of the reasons flights are so expensive is due to fuel costs.  How does SouthWest do it?  They have extremely good business credit, and can sign long term fixed pricing deals on fuel.  Airlines like NWA, and others that have filed for Bankruptcy don't have that luxury, they have to pay market rates.  That alone costs the non-fixed price airlines to lose MILLIONS immediately from the bottom line.  FWIW, There was a story about this on NPR a while back, so I'm not just spewing things out of my rear.

EDIT: I also believe that the EU subsidizes part of the airline industry, I'll have to do some looking

Southwest shorted the market at the right time with regards to fuel.  They're still buying oil at 40$ while everyone else is nearly double that, that is the way they've been so successful.  Those contracts expire within the next 2 years, and then they'll have to play on the same field as everyone else.  

Conversely, they have used the money for good things, like capital expeditures, they have nice airplanes, don't do the traditional spoke and hub, and pay their employees well.  

Take a look at American Airlines, super-old fleet, union and employees and management all on different pages, use the spoke and hub methodology, are expensive to fly internationally.

[chgrnative]

I am pretty sure that Frontier is big in Des Moines and Omaha with many flights to the west coast.

[MJLO]

I'm pretty sure Frontier has a Hub in Denver,  which would make sense that cities like Des Moines, and Omaha would have connections there given their proximity.  Northwest has the corner on that market in GR, United not far behind because of it's proximity.  It wouldn't make much sense for Frontier to come here, there is not that great of a market for them.  It'd make more sense for Southwest or a USAirways type to move in and buys some gates.

[highwayguy]

Based on this route map, I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that Frontier's hub is Denver.  United is currently running one direct flight per day between GRR and Denver.  I wonder how their numbers have been on those flights?

I think Southwest would be a great addition to GRR.  I'd also like to see jetBlue, or possibly the return of US Airways.

[NorthEnder]

highwayguy, on Dec 14 2006, 01:35 AM, said:

Based on this route map, I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that Frontier's hub is Denver.  United is currently running one direct flight per day between GRR and Denver.  I wonder how their numbers have been on those flights?

I think Southwest would be a great addition to GRR.  I'd also like to see jetBlue, or possibly the return of US Airways.

We'll never see JetBlue @ GRR, unless we really blow up in the business world, we don't fit their business model.  

I agree with the US Airways though, it'd be great to see them back in GR.  They have a lot of flights to the carribean, through their hub in Charlotte (which is an awesome airport.)

[snoogit]

highwayguy, on Dec 14 2006, 01:35 AM, said:

Based on this route map, I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that Frontier's hub is Denver.  United is currently running one direct flight per day between GRR and Denver.  I wonder how their numbers have been on those flights?

I think Southwest would be a great addition to GRR.  I'd also like to see jetBlue, or possibly the return of US Airways.

I always find it interesting that Great Lakes Airways doesn't serve the Great Lakes area...

NorthEnder, on Dec 14 2006, 08:54 AM, said:

We'll never see JetBlue @ GRR, unless we really blow up in the business world, we don't fit their business model.  

I agree with the US Airways though, it'd be great to see them back in GR.  They have a lot of flights to the carribean, through their hub in Charlotte (which is an awesome airport.)

I'd love to have non stop to Charlotte. Especially with family in the Greensboro area, that'd make the trip so much easier (instead of stopping to Chicago, blech)

Edited by snoogit, 14 December 2006 - 05:48 PM.