49 replies to this topic

[Owsley9]

I was surprised to see there wasn't yet a thread on this, so I thought it would bring valuable discussion.  What does everyone think about rewriting it?  Please visit the following website and do some reading:

http://www.constitutionalreform.org/

(I was shocked to learn we have the longest known constitution in the world)

[someguyfrombham]

Owsley9, on Dec 3 2006, 12:34 PM, said:

I was surprised to see there wasn't yet a thread on this, so I thought it would bring valuable discussion.  What does everyone think about rewriting it?  Please visit the following website and do some reading:

http://www.constitutionalreform.org/

(I was shocked to learn we have the longest known constitution in the world)

Definitely.  There's so many things wrong with Alabama's constitution that I don't even feel like listing them (or maybe that's just because I have a weed hangover).

[kayman]

It has been discussed, but more or less on a topic-by-topic basis in the Alabama forum.  But since this is the Birmingham subforum, we should discuss things that only affect the region itself here like full home rule, mass transit funding, ect..

[jmanhsv]

Ah, but home rule and mass transit funding is something that everybody needs, not just the Birmingham region.

I think the current state constitution needs to be burned. It gives way too much power to corporations (ie ALFA), the tax system is horrible, mass transit cannot be funded, and if a county wants a sales tax hike, everyone has to vote on it. I don't think there's anything positive about it.

I also don't see why Governor Riley does not want a vote on a constitutional convention. That is the one thing I don't like about him.

[someguyfrombham]

jmanhsv, on Dec 3 2006, 03:19 PM, said:

Ah, but home rule and mass transit funding is something that everybody needs, not just the Birmingham region.

I think the current state constitution needs to be burned. It gives way too much power to corporations (ie ALFA), the tax system is horrible, mass transit cannot be funded, and if a county wants a sales tax hike, everyone has to vote on it. I don't think there's anything positive about it.

I also don't see why Governor Riley does not want a vote on a constitutional convention. That is the one thing I don't like about him.

Well... he always says the old conservative stuff about how "special interest groups" will take over, as if they haven't already and could possibly take over any more.  His reply is that the constitution should be reformed amendment-by-amendment, but with the slow pace at which Alabama government moves (due to the 1901 Constitution) as well as the large number of lobbyist-controlled state legislators who benefit from the everything-concentrated-in-Montgomery status quo, any meaningful piece-by-piece reform would likely take 100 years or more to ever reach fruition.

Edited by someguyfrombham, 03 December 2006 - 04:32 PM.

[davidzLA]

Features I'd like to see in a new Alabama constitution:

- a unicameral Legislature, with 100 legislators from districts of equal population, elected every two years

- a system in which Supreme Court justices (and perhaps others) are nominated by the governor, confirmed by the Legislature, and lastly installed for life by popular vote (or, removed from office) at an election for governor not more than 7 years away.

- devolve power to county and local officals on issues of purely local interest, i.e. Home Rule.

- an explicit right to privacy for all Alabama residents

- order of sucession for governor and other state officials

And, although not a constitutional issue,
- privitize liquor distribution, the state should have regulatory and not commercial interests in this sector.  Similarly, any future gambling interests should be regulated and taxed - not awarded exclusive franchises.

Edited by davidzLA, 03 December 2006 - 05:37 PM.

[monsoon]

Owsley9, on Dec 3 2006, 01:34 PM, said:

...
(I was shocked to learn we have the longest known constitution in the world)

I am curious on how the Alabama constitution can be older than the US Constitution or for matter any of the 13 original states.

[someguyfrombham]

monsoon, on Dec 3 2006, 05:49 PM, said:

I am curious on how the Alabama constitution can be older than the US Constitution or for matter any of the 13 original states.

It's not.  It's just way longer than any of those and was created by the landed gentry of Alabama specifically to disenfranchise blacks and poor whites while keeping taxes for the aforementioned landed gentry as low as possible.

[monsoon]

ahh, haha, I read that wrong.  I thought longest meant in terms of time.

[kayman]

someguyfrombham, on Dec 3 2006, 04:16 PM, said:

Well... he always says the old conservative stuff about how "special interest groups" will take over, as if they haven't already and could possibly take over any more.  His reply is that the constitution should be reformed amendment-by-amendment, but with the slow pace at which Alabama government moves (due to the 1901 Constitution) as well as the large number of lobbyist-controlled state legislators who benefit from the everything-concentrated-in-Montgomery status quo, any meaningful piece-by-piece reform would likely take 100 years or more to ever reach fruition.

You're right, it will take forever if people in this state don't wake up and realize how badly they are being cheated.

[kayman]

davidzLA, on Dec 3 2006, 05:22 PM, said:

Features I'd like to see in a new Alabama constitution:

- a unicameral Legislature, with 100 legislators from districts of equal population, elected every two years

- a system in which Supreme Court justices (and perhaps others) are nominated by the governor, confirmed by the Legislature, and lastly installed for life by popular vote (or, removed from office) at an election for governor not more than 7 years away.

- devolve power to county and local officals on issues of purely local interest, i.e. Home Rule.

- an explicit right to privacy for all Alabama residents

- order of sucession for governor and other state officials

And, although not a constitutional issue,
- privitize liquor distribution, the state should have regulatory and not commercial interests in this sector.  Similarly, any future gambling interests should be regulated and taxed - not awarded exclusive franchises.

DavidzLA,  That has to be the best worded reform provisions I've ever seen for the state constitution in my life.  You should write these ideas and send them to the Birmingham News in the "Letters to the Editor" section.    

[davidzLA]

Leonard23, on Dec 3 2006, 07:39 PM, said:

You should write these ideas and send them to the Birmingham News in the "Letters to the Editor" section.

I'm not sure they're accepting unsolicited fiction. :-)

[kayman]

davidzLA, on Dec 4 2006, 03:44 PM, said:

I'm not sure they're accepting unsolicited fiction. :-)

Trust me, yours is as closest to some substance that I've read in awhile.  Most letters nowadays is total BS like the continue argument of why the voters who typically vote Republican shouldn't have voted against the party.  Most of it is about as relevent as the number of bumps are on a basketball.

[Owsley9]

annnnnnd, yet another problem with our constitution:

http://www.al.com/ne...e....xml&coll=2

[kayman]

Owsley9, on Dec 5 2006, 02:38 PM, said:

annnnnnd, yet another problem with our constitution:

http://www.al.com/ne...e....xml&coll=2

Oh brother!  When are those idiots going to learn?  We really NEED a rewrite of our state constitution.

[kayman]

Even more reasons for new constitution

Quote

If voters cared one-tenth as much about that insult as they do about who the next UA football coach will be, lawmakers wouldn't dare ignore them.

Amen to that!  A good chunk of the Alabamians would get over their obsession with college footballl and actually worry about some that will actually affect them like the state constitution.  The state constitution affects EVERYTHING including what you pay for groceries, utilities, and education for your children.  But they want to all the news outlets to have who is the next coach at UA as 1 of the top stories.  WTF?  Alabamians have some seriously misplaced priorities.

[Nemean]

Leonard23, on Dec 7 2006, 10:34 AM, said:

Even more reasons for new constitution
Amen to that!  A good chunk of the Alabamians would get over their obsession with college footballl and actually worry about some that will actually affect them like the state constitution.  The state constitution affects EVERYTHING including what you pay for groceries, utilities, and education for your children.  But they want to all the news outlets to have who is the next coach at UA as 1 of the top stories.  WTF?  Alabamians have some seriously misplaced priorities.

My physics class was discussing how we thought our school could be better. I said that i thought the school put too much emphasis on sports. The rest dismissed my point said that my point was pointless because every school puts as much emphasis as my school does on sports.
My biggest chip against Alabama has been its emphasis on sports. The influence on the educational system (money going to sports at the expense of educaton- "Sports provide opportunity for those who otherwise couldn't afford it," has a limit andI believe it has passed it. )worries me the most. Then again, it's a national pandemic... or I'm just wrong.
The younger years do have a major impact on priorities. There needs to be more emphasis on what is important at a younger age.

Oh yeah, I want a shorter contitution. Law's complicated as it is, and there is plenty of documents and court cases to take into account. I'd prefer it average Joes don't get swindled on some loophole hidden in the 59th page of something that probably should only be 6. Plus, centralized government bogs everything down.

[davidzLA]

Leonard23, on Dec 7 2006, 09:34 AM, said:

But they want to all the news outlets to have who is the next coach at UA as 1 of the top stories.  WTF?  Alabamians have some seriously misplaced priorities.

If it makes you feel better (it might not) there are stupid people everywhere, everywhere I've lived certainly, at a near-universal constant.  (There are some subtle peaks & valleys. :-) )  People are just stupid about different stupid things.  The number one lookup on Google isn't 'responsible government', 'environmentally-benign technology' or 'stable democratic Iraq'.  It's BRITNEY SPEARS.

Quote

A good chunk of the Alabamians would get over their obsession with college footballl and actually worry about some that will actually affect them like the state constitution.

Maybe if Mexicans read Shakespeare more instead of playing fútbol the country would be better off.  Who knows.  I'd encourage you to view this as valid as any other cultural phenomenon and work with it, however... puzzling.

Some other ideas for the constitution...

- fundamentally re-imagining it as a short framework document; keep it short, as mentioned by Nemean.  It needs to be the outline, not the whole taco that has to be routinely amended.

- an ethics clause for all state employees.

- the elimination of straight ticket voting.

- a line item veto for the governor (and/or equivilent structure that requires bills to be logically grouped and ordered, i.e. no adding a venison subsidy on the seat-belt law).

[kayman]

Here is an editoral from the Sunday's Birmingham News that discusses how screwed our state tax system is compared to others in the nation:  

A Thousand Miles To Go

I didn't know that Tennessee's was more regressive than ours according to Public Affairs Research Council of Alabama.  That answers 1 question that our regressive tax system isn't exactly a true hinderance of rapid state growth.  It does offer 1 bright spot that our income tax threshold is now $12,500 up from $4,600.  It basically says that we have a long way to go to make our state tax code more fair.

[Dystopos]

Found in Birmingham Rewound's "This Month in History" feature (from January, 1947):