157 replies to this topic

[colin]

Maybe I shouldn't look at it like this, but I always see the Valley like LA and the Phoenix-Mesa relationship like LA-Long Beach or -Anaheim: they're adjacent and the latter owes its existence to the former, but, it's an overall different city, self-sufficient in many ways.
I don't know that the projects going on are going to make a significant impact to improving its density or urban nature though. Waveyard itself is an inherently suburban project: water parks don't go up in urban environments and typically only contribute to the economic base by introducing more sprawl and car-centric related businesses.
And the Fiesta Mall district is not really looking at anything that's going to significantly alter the area's suburban nature. Apartments, office buildings. Yeah, that's live-work, but the work is not going to fully support the live and the live is still going to have to go into the actual urban core, most likely via car since, although the infrastructure will be there, Mesa's and the entire Valley's culture looks down upon public transit use.
Cynnical enough?

[MJLO]

It is unfortunate that Transit is frowned upon.  But you're never going to get suburbanites anywhere to sign onto it.  The very nature of suburban culture, is do what's most convenient, not responsible.  It's just to easy for a mom with three kids to pile them all into the SUV and drive to Walmart two miles away where parking is instantly findable, than to drag the kids onto the train or drive into the downtown, hunt for a place to park where you're mostly likely going to have to pay, unload everyone and then have to walk a distance to the destination.   The carless culture only fares in older cities that have had these things in place long ago.  The transit system in New York is older than Phoenix itself.  But those eastern cities, New York, DC, Chicago, Philly, were firmly rooted and vibrant long before the automobile.  The newer western cities, Phoenix, Las Vegas, LA ect, were built and planned around the automobile.  Go further with less amount of time, no need for conserving land and building up.  This will never change.  You cannot reprogram a suburbanites mind.  They will never put in the small amount of extra effort to be more responsible towards the earth.  So long as they can put their used cans in the big blue bins they put out on Tuesday they are doing their part.  Those people exist in every metropolitan area big and small on this continent. I just hope that the things the leadership is doing now, paves way for a more responsible, resource conserving future generation

[clarebear]

so i guess the key would be to make it more convenient to ride the light rail, that drive ur suburban, if thats possible.

[traal]

In addition to making mass transit more convenient, also make driving less convenient. Traffic-calm the streets, raise gasoline taxes and/or enact a carbon tax, etc.

Traffic-calming would have the added benefit of making it safer to walk and ride bicycles.

[colin]

I think all of us are on the same page here.

Working Downtown makes public transit more convenient than driving, at least in Tucson. If I were to drive in every day, I would be spending over $600 per year on parking, plus having to deal with all of that traffic. Why do that when I get a monthly bus pass for $10 and just have to deal with stupid high school kids on the bus?
Other people where I work, and quite a few others in the working masses Downtown, not just the poor, use buses here. It's quite refreshing.

But since Mesa doesn't have that central core, there needs to be better and more convenient bus service via park & rides, express services, etc., to Phoenix and other employment centers (ASU, Downtown Scottsdale, the business parks in Chandler). I don't see the light rail being well-used by regular commuters until this service is implemented.

[colin]

Theives make off with dying man's groceries

I know it's tragic, and I'm probably evil for it, but I can't help laughing at the thought of the scene.

[traal]

Mesa water park renews debate on what's a big waste

The question posed by the article is whether Waveyard is an appropriate use of water resources. But why is it even a question? The only question for Waveyard should be, is the water affordable affordable enough to sustain the business?

Provided, of course, that a water bill covers the true cost of providing the water. That means it shouldn't be subsidized by taxes, and the water bill should cover the cost of correcting any damage (environmental, political, etc.) caused by providing the water. Then why would it matter how much water is "wasted"?

[nuplanner]

The reason why Waveyard is coming to a vote is because the city is giving them 1.5 million for infrastructure improvements in the area and the "user tax" subsidy for the remainder 20 mil they will pay off.  Infrastructure money is typical in big projects.  The user tax subsidy/20 mil to be paid of is kind of like a loan.  After looking at this user tax subsidy, it is the best I have ever seen and protects the city in the long run.  

I have been giving out yard signs to friends and family members in the city.  

IF you life in Mesa, spread the word to your friends by email.  encourage them to get a yard sign and educate themselves on the project and issues.

The waveyard people have done a pretty good job on the campaign.  I have gotten a ton of things in the mail, newspaper, phone calls and have even seen commercials on espn.


  
http://yesforwaveyard.com/

[MJLO]

any updates on waveyard?  New Mesa news going on?

[nuplanner]

Hey, all of Mesa residents get out and vote today!  Vote yes on 300, and bring the waveyard to Mesa!

[traal]

The future promises to be one of taxes in Mesa

The article is about how Mesa has promised to find ways to pay for its bonds without imposing a property tax, but it has found that sales taxes haven't been sufficient and have resulted in people taking their sales tax dollars to neighboring cities.

California has a solution to the problem: the Mello-Roos tax. Instead of making everyone in the city pay for new infrastructure required by new housing developments, only the people who buy those new houses have to pay for it.

It can be kind of expensive. I believe $6,000 per year for 10-20 years is fairly typical. But it keeps taxes in more established parts of a city at a more reasonable level.

However, it would probably slow growth, and Mesa has been a growth-at-any-cost city for decades. In any case, the piper must be paid. It sounds like Mesa is finally starting to realize that.

[nuplanner]

Traal, good take.  Something has to be done, and the residents are the ones who have to realize they have to pick up the bill.

The idea about the Mello roos tax is interesting.  The only thing is when you live closer to major employment centers, and other residents from other cities congest the streets, they do not pay for it, but put wear and tear the roads faster than further out.

I was out in Higley/Gilbert today and it is freakn out there.  Most of the roads are old farm roads with leap frog housing developments.  Traffic is hell and shows the problem with developers, our laws and so forth.  I think the valley should have had a flex growth boundary line.  One that you can re-evaluate every so often to try to keep affordability possible (unlike Portland area)  Since most cities say that developments have to build the roads and infrastructure in front of there development and so forth, you get patch work.  With a flex growth boundary, you infill those areas and have the developers pick up the tab and not the citizens.  Than you hopefully put more money into your transportation fund for maintenance and mass transit.

Read article

http://www.smartgrowthamerica.org/narsgareport2007.html

Edited by nuplanner, 18 November 2007 - 12:03 AM.

[nuplanner]

Oh, and I almost forgot.  Last Friday in downtown Mesa was 2nd Fridays night out in downtown.  I helped with a lady at my work organize Mesa's first cruising main in 24 years.  We had around 800 car clubs from model T's to modern car clubs.  Around 3,000 people came downtown from the normal few hundred that shows up to the event.  Stores ran out of food.  

The big thing was, people loved the downtown and were surprised at what was down there and loved the environment as a urban area.  Saturday, people returned to shop and this is the most these shop owners have made ever due to this event.  It was fun and hopefully some spark with return to downtown and interest with fallow and become a true downtown with reinvestment and redevelopment.

Eventho this promoted more cars and pollution in the area, it was a good event for a good past time.

Edited by nuplanner, 18 November 2007 - 12:17 AM.

[colin]

That's great.
Was there anything particularly different about this event? Something more offered? Extra PR?
Seems kind of random to go from several hundred to several thousand.

[MJLO]

Silverbear made an interesting point in another thread, about Mesa focusing on Transit Oriented Development.   Can anyone tell me what the cities plans are for working on it's established west end?  I think if Mesa were to have any kind of shot and solidifying itself it would be done on it's psuedo downtown area.

[nuplanner]

MJLO, on 03 March 2008 - 10:32 AM, said:

Silverbear made an interesting point in another thread, about Mesa focusing on Transit Oriented Development.   Can anyone tell me what the cities plans are for working on it's established west end?  I think if Mesa were to have any kind of shot and solidifying itself it would be done on it's psuedo downtown area.

They finished it a while ago.  It is called the west main street area plan.  Its only if you want to check it out.

Also, the central corridor in downtown Mesa is getting ready for the extension and they are doing a similar plan as they did for west Mesa, but more focused on downtown and making it more dense and the city center to a point.

[nuplanner]

The city of Mesa has secured the Cactus leagues most profitable team in staying in Arizona and Mesa.  

http://www.eastvalle...om/story/149977

Now what do you guys think about what is being talked about?  A Wrigley field west that has entertainment, retail, restaurants, office and hotels?

[MJLO]

I think that's great!  Where in East Mesa are they looking to build?