102 replies to this topic

[MJLO]

It's a combination of all. The mentality that exists as well.   Phoenix has alot of west coast wealth that resides, full time, part time, and on vacation.  It also has a fair amount of local wealth. But mostly it's a hub for the service sector so it has a huge upper middle class presence. The exclusivity of these retailers fits perfectly with the parts of town they are in. Couple that with the amount of people moving in.  What strikes me is the new retail that's coming in, it sounds like we are getting alot of firsts in the country.  I wonder if we are becoming some kind of high end test market.

However, only in Phoenix,  will a woman be arrested for leaving her child to be babysat by the valet at Neiman Marcus

[Manolos]

MJLO, on Sep 20 2007, 02:13 PM, said:

I'd love it if these retailers would open along a strip, creating a real retail avenue that exists in other cities instead of malls where the environments controlled.  I hope that with light rail and all the high end residential going in downtown that we can do something about the overwhelming suburban feel of the valley from one end to the other

I am really excited about the downtown revival. Downtown Scottsdale will be completed different by this time next year. I also like that all the new stores in the Barney's wings (at least most) will have some kind of outdoor access, similar to Sephora/Anthropologie. This will definitely make SFS feel a lot more street friendly. Similarly the restaurants and shops, cafes, and condos opening at Safari Drive right across the street from SFS will add even more residents to the area. Once W Hotel is complete and Southbridge, I think Scottsdale will be a lot different and we will see a lot more pedestrians. Already Ive seen an increase in pedestrians just because of the waterfront.

atlrvr, on Sep 20 2007, 02:41 PM, said:

It seems like Phoenix is really drawing a lot of very high-end retailers.  Is there any particular reason why?  I don't mean that as a slight at all on Phoenix.  I've never been, but know it's growing extremely quickly, its just that it seems like its got more high-end retail than most metro's that size.

Is it due to large number of wealthy full-time residents?  Large number of wealthy part-time residents?  Large number of wealthy visitors there to play golf?  Or do people who live in Phoenix just have very expensive tastes?

Phoenix is unique in that a lot of the tourism it draws caters to the middle, upper middle, and upper class. It is the number one spa destination in the country. It has five 5-diamond hotels in the metro (4 in Scottsdale and 1 on Scottsdale/Carefree border), second to only New York City. World-class golfing, high class nightlife, ritzy restaurants. Something that has helped a lot is that Scottsdale is a popular overnight destination from Hollywood celebrities and is constantly discussed in travel magazines and tabloids (which has raised its profile.) Much of the Fashion Square success is due to tourism. Also, there have been several studies that NorthPark Center in Dallas, the Galleria in Houston, and Fashion Square have even more business from its close proximity to Mexico. Tucson, in souther Arizona, has a lot of luxury options for a city of its size (Cole Haan, LV, Tiffanys, Brooks Brothers, BCBG, etc.) Also, the luxury automobile auctions, Barrett-Jackson, the largest in the country, and Russ also draw millions of tourists. Similarly, a lot of people in the southwest travel to Phoenix/Scottsdale to buy luxury cars as it has one of the biggest collections in the coutnry with Rolls Royce, Bentley, Panoz, Spyker, Maserati, Ferrari, Maybach, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Lotus, etc.

But also, Arizona peaks during the winter months when a lot of northeast and midwesteners stay around here, most are wealthy households who own a second home in the area. But theres also a huge population of wealthy residents, Maricopa County has the fourth highest number of millionaire households, behind LA, Cook, and Orange. A rough estimate back in 2006 is 1 out of every 94 household millionaires in the US are in Phoenix (which isn't bad considering only LA and Chicago have a higher percentage.) I dont remember the actual ratio, but its even higher when considering secondary residences.

Phoenix's retail market is even hotter now as it was named the fastest growing luxury retail destination in the country, surpassing Las Vegas. And in terms of all retail, it is right behind Vegas in retail growth.

Edited by Manolos, 20 September 2007 - 02:58 PM.

[kurtk21]

As for why we are gettting these retailers, you are all correct, its the tourism and types of tourists that visit the area.  In addition, we now have more households with 1 million dollar plus incomes than most cities- 120,000 in and near Scottsdale, much more than San Diego or Seattle- http://www.iht.com/a...cond.php?page=1

Also, with the Barneys coming and the new space, its a chance to quickly get in these retailers all at once, rather than over time as leases expire in an exisiting mall.  The other developers- City North and One Scottsdale may have helped also, though the intent was to bring them in to their projects, selling them on the market convinced them that a store needs to go here, in one of the projects, of which Fashion Square is a safe bet.

New news-
Bloomingdales to be the other anchor at Fashion Square "the 100,000 sf anchor" that has been often mentioned.  Not sure if it would be a home store like in Las Vegas or a small full line yet.  The city planners seem to have this knowledge already.  
Pinkberry (yogurt) has signed for two stores- first outside LA- Hilton Village and Biltmore, should be open by spring.
Whole Foods has been looking at several sites in downtown Scottsdale- Fashion Square, or at Indian School and Goldwater.
LA's Dolce Group also is looking for a downtown Scottsdale location for its Geisha House concept.

[Manolos]

Where did you read that Pinkberry is coming? That would be really exciting.

[ProPHX]

Manolos, on Sep 19 2007, 11:27 PM, said:

Bulgari has signed an LOI to move into the space that was previously thought to be Hermes.

Do you have a source for the Bulgari LOI?

kurtk21, how do you know about Bloomingdale's?  Do you have a source?

[Manolos]

^^Macerich website.

Bloomingdale's is confirmed to be opening at CityNorth.

[ProPHX]

Manolos, on Oct 27 2007, 08:12 PM, said:

^^Macerich website.

I couldn't find the reference to the Bulgari LOI on the Macerich web site.  Could you post the link?

BTW, I was at the Hermès boutique in Las Vegas over the weekend, and the salespeople can confirm that there will be a store in Scottsdale.  It was supposed to open in 2008 but has been delayed.  This is in-line with the International Hearld Tribune article.

[colin]

Welcome to the forum, ProPHX. Feel free to introduce yourself in the off-topic or "roll call" threads.
Not Phoenix, but the long-rumored Nordstrom is going up here in Tucson in the Foothills. The Daily Star had a note about it but no actual story. I'll post when there is one.

[Manolos]

^^I wouldn't be surprised if Nordstrom does open in Tucson soon. Tucson already has a lot of luxury retail for its size and its just begging for a department store.

Yes, Hermes was planning on opening where Brentano's was, but instead opted to the new Barneys wing (set to open in late 2008/early 2009), rumored for a larger space.

As for Bulgari, look at the lease plans for the malls (usually Macerich updates those after signing an LOI, or an OFS, it gets updated every half year or quarter year or so with new stores, and its usually correct, Carolina Herrera, Tiffany's expansion, Bottega, Michael Kors, A/X were all updated onto the Lease plan several months before the official announcements.)

[MJLO]

alright everyone.  Forgive me, I changed the name of this thread to more accurately reppresent the line of conversation going on.  I feel it appropriate, perhaps it'll draw some attention with a more broad description.  If you have any suggestions please let me know.

[ProPHX]

Manolos, on Oct 29 2007, 09:21 PM, said:

Yes, Hermes was planning on opening where Brentano's was, but instead opted to the new Barneys wing (set to open in late 2008/early 2009), rumored for a larger space.

As for Bulgari, look at the lease plans for the malls (usually Macerich updates those after signing an LOI, or an OFS, it gets updated every half year or quarter year or so with new stores, and its usually correct, Carolina Herrera, Tiffany's expansion, Bottega, Michael Kors, A/X were all updated onto the Lease plan several months before the official announcements.)

I found it.  Thank you.

Phoenix is really getting the good stores finally!

All we need now is Giorgio Armani, Chanel, Dior, and David Yurman, and a Baccarat, Lalique, Versace, and Prada would be great.

Has anyone heard that Jimmy Choo is looking at the former Tomatoes space?  It was going to be Pita Olive for a couple of weeks, but that must have fallen through.

[Manolos]

Thanks MJLO, makes more sense.

ProPHX, on Oct 30 2007, 11:15 AM, said:

I found it.  Thank you.

Phoenix is really getting the good stores finally!

All we need now is Giorgio Armani, Chanel, Dior, and David Yurman, and a Baccarat, Lalique, Versace, and Prada would be great.

Has anyone heard that Jimmy Choo is looking at the former Tomatoes space?  It was going to be Pita Olive for a couple of weeks, but that must have fallen through.

I did hear that Jimmy Choo was looking for somewhere (they are currently in the midst of expanding, signing leases for both Fashion Valley in San Diego and Bravern in Seattle.) I knew that Pita Olive was signing, but they wanted a permanent lease and Westcor would only give them a temporary lease, so they fell through and are currently negotiating for another spot in the mall (it sounded like an interesting restaurant.) That Tomatoes space has been empty for awhile and something needs to fill it!

As for other stores, I think its only a matter of time before some of them start signing leases (such as Chanel and David Yurman.) Phoenix's retail scene is exploding right now and its definitely the next big market for these luxury retailers to tap. If you just think about how many new retailers signed leases in this last year (not even, less than a year), its ridiculous.

But I think we will be in for a surprisee. CityNorth claims that they have already leased nearly 70-80% of their retail space (and are just waiting for a greater percentage leased to reveal who they got.) They already got Nordstrom and Bloomingdale's. I am sure they got other stores (as Escada, Tiffany's and Louis Vuitton were all looking for a second location in Phoenix, though Louis Vuitton is opening at Biltmore.) There is also a lot of new space in the Barney's wing (I know Hermes has signed an LOI for a space there.) I wouldn't be surprised if we see more retailers jumping in.

Edited by Manolos, 30 October 2007 - 12:29 PM.

[ProPHX]

Manolos, on Oct 30 2007, 11:25 AM, said:

As for other stores, I think its only a matter of time before some of them start signing leases (such as Chanel and David Yurman.) Phoenix's retail scene is exploding right now and its definitely the next big market for these luxury retailers to tap. If you just think about how many new retailers signed leases in this last year (not even, less than a year), its ridiculous.

But I think we will be in for a surprisee. CityNorth claims that they have already leased nearly 70-80% of their retail space (and are just waiting for a greater percentage leased to reveal who they got.) They already got Nordstrom and Bloomingdale's. I am sure they got other stores (as Escada, Tiffany's and Louis Vuitton were all looking for a second location in Phoenix, though Louis Vuitton is opening at Biltmore.) There is also a lot of new space in the Barney's wing (I know Hermes has signed an LOI for a space there.) I wouldn't be surprised if we see more retailers jumping in.

I would be very surprised if CityNorth landed anything as high-end as Chanel or Armani.  Why would those retailers gamble on an unknown when a known exists?  Also, the luxury brands should be clustered, not separated.  It would make more sense for the luxury stores to be near each other, which is Scottsdale Fashion Square.  In fact, I'm surprised that Escada and Cartier haven't moved from the Biltmore to Scottsale.  And Nordstrom and Bloomingdale's are nice department stores, but they are both a tier below Neiman Marcus and Barney's.

Isn't the new LV in SFA?  It would be better to have a free-standing location, with clothes too!

It is ridiculous how many new retailers have signed.  Keep 'em coming!

[Manolos]

I wouldn't be so sure. The developers for CityNorth are quite experienced, and retailers are interesting. Why are Jimmy Choo and Hermes opening in Bellevue and not in Seattle where all the current luxury goods are? Loro Piana, Hermes and Adriano Goldschmied have signed for Buckhead Village in Atlanta (outside of the general Phipps/Lenox). The draw of CityNorth is that it will be outdoors (something Fashion Square cannot offer). Besides, Bloomingdales is definitely nice enough, same with Nordstrom, to draw some bigs names. While I don't think Chanel would choose CityNorth over Fashion Square, there are some retailers that I could see preferring CityNorth more (like Prada, who abhors enclosed malls.)

As for Escada and Cartier, I think the draw for Biltmore is that most of their luxury companies still there draw to an older audience (also Stuart Weitzman, Cole Haan, etc.) Though Vera Bradley and Calypso both are relatively new and attract younger people. I am not sure what they are doing with Biltmore. Roberto Botticelli also seemed to have been a better fit at Fashion Square, but it chose Biltmore in the end.

LV is in saks, however, LV is different in that their (store within store) locations are actually leased and company owned/run. Its supposedly quite large.

Another note, Spanish jeweller Tous has leased a space on the second floor. If you are unfamiliar with them, they are known for their simple/chic jewelry, with pieces ranging from 100 to 1000. It doesn't compete against the likes of Tiffanys or so, its more of like fun jewelry. They have locations in Soho, LA, Atlanta, Florida and Texas. They are much larger internationally (pretty much in all big fashion districts, Harbor Bay in HK, Ginza in Tokyo, Paris, Milano, etc.)

Edited by Manolos, 30 October 2007 - 06:59 PM.

[HX_Guy]

Great info overall, you guys really know your stuff when it comes to this.

I've asked about this before I think...but what are the chances of a G Star Raw, Energie/Miss Sixy, Diesel, and/or Replay coming to the Phoenix market?
There are very few stores that carry any of these brands now, HUB is one of the few I can think of...and they don't have any of the Energie/Miss Sixty items. I noticed they recently started carrying Replay jeans, but havn't seen anything other then jeans.

[Manolos]

^^I'm not sure. I think the casual denim fad only exploded a little while ago, and most of these companies only have a few stores. Though, I can't see Diesel holding out that much longer (they have had a store in Denver for awhile...) But I think the only thing about these types of denim companies is their actual clothing (other than denim) is quite European that its more popular on the East Coast (aka Replay and Diesel.) I think Diesel would be the first to open of those 4 stores. When? I do not know.

As for other denim companies, there are a lotta brands I like in addition to them that can be found at a number of stores in Scottsdale (Paige, R&R, Sass & Bide, Chip & Pepper, etc.) Also some of these stores may have the above four brands, I am not sure.

I would check out fleur't and Luxe in Gainey Village, Electric Ladyland, Scottsdale Jean Company, Moody Blues (which is opening a shop at SouthBridge). However, most of these are also catered towards women (though I know for a fact Scottsdale Jean and Moody Blues has guy stuff).

And Hub, I haven't been to their newly, expanded store. Anyone been there and seen their so called "butt cams"?

Edited by Manolos, 31 October 2007 - 12:43 AM.

[HX_Guy]

Manolos, on Oct 31 2007, 01:42 AM, said:

^^I'm not sure. I think the casual denim fad only exploded a little while ago, and most of these companies only have a few stores. Though, I can't see Diesel holding out that much longer (they have had a store in Denver for awhile...) But I think the only thing about these types of denim companies is their actual clothing (other than denim) is quite European that its more popular on the East Coast (aka Replay and Diesel.) I think Diesel would be the first to open of those 4 stores. When? I do not know.

They are more popular on the East Coast, but at the same time, all four of the companies I mentioned have stores in LA, and some even in San Diego...plus definitely in San Francisco. I know Armani Exchange is coming to Scottsdale as is Puma, which both lean toward the more European look and fit...if Diesel follows, maybe the others will eventually as well.

[Manolos]

LA and San Fran are also much larger retail markets than Phoenix. I think Diesel will definitely be confirmed within the next year or so at either the new Barneys wing or at CityNorth.

On another note, popular San Francisco boutique, Babette, is opening in downtown Scottsdale with the Safari development. Babette was popularized by Henri Bendel carrying a number of their styles. Babette currently has locations in Union Square in SF, SoHo in Manhattan, Magnificent Mile in Chicago, and the Pearl District in Portland.

I think this is great, especially since its pretty popular and it will be streetscape retail, something Scottsdale/Camelback needs!

Older news that was never posted:
Mexican design duo Pineda Covalin are opening their first US store in downtown Scottsdale and will be featured at Fashion Week next week. www.pinedacovalinusa.net

Also, upscale bathroom fixture, Waterworks, will be moving from Biltmore to the Crafts district in Old Town. www.waterworks.com

Edited by Manolos, 02 November 2007 - 02:25 AM.

[ProPHX]

^^^^^I am very surprised that there isn't a Diesel store as well.  It can't be that far off....

[kurtk21]

Manolos, on Oct 4 2007, 01:45 PM, said:

Where did you read that Pinkberry is coming? That would be really exciting.

I am a retail leasing agent in the area, this came direct from the Pinkberry real estate manager.  Have yet to see them on a site plan though.