20 replies to this topic

[jungletobacco]

We can talk about which is better than the other all day but the true is that the 2nd tier city arent where they should. Why are we so behind? I stay in Augusta so I can speak on Augusta and I believe Augusta has limited interstate access. Most of the growth is along I-20 and creates an imbalance. But if I-3 and I-14 were passed Augusta will lot and lots of growth and take Augusta to another level.

Whats holding Macon back?
Macon has all that interstate access

Whats holding Columbus back?
Columbus has all that corporate business

Whats holding Savannah?
Savannah has all that history and tourism

Whats the problem?

[shanthemanatl]

As a native of Macon, I think a lack of vision and bold leadership has been sorely missing for some time now.

I had lunch in downtown Macon the day after Thanksgiving, and I couldn't help but marvel at the beautiful, classic architecture and wide sidewalks. Macon has such enormous potential to be a charming, small city.

I'm told an urban planner from Europe was called in by the city a few years to make an assessment, and even he marveled at Macon's potential. Personally, I think Macon should create a pedestrian-only boulevard downtown---perhaps Cherry Street from the Terminal Station to Second St? I think Pearl St. in Boulder or Colorado Blvd. in Pasadena would be good examples to emulate.

I think Savannah is doing just fine---what a unique and captivating place!

Don't know much about Columbus or Augusta, though I find their downtown areas certainly less inviting than Savannah or even Macon, for that matter.

Edited by shanthemanatl, 02 January 2007 - 01:23 PM.

[ATLman1]

For Columbus:

1) Lack of major interstate connections. I-185 is good, but it should be
    extended down to Florida. However, talks are underway to extend the
    interstate down to Florida to take traffic off of I-75.

2) More airlines to service the Columbus Metro Airport. We are just too
    close to Atlanta I believe to get more airlines, but the airport is    
    currently talking to several airlines.

[Pillsbury]

shanthemanatl, on Jan 2 2007, 02:21 PM, said:

As a native of Macon, I think a lack of vision and bold leadership has been sorely missing for some time now.

I had lunch in downtown Macon the day after Thanksgiving, and I couldn't help but marvel at the beautiful, classic architecture and wide sidewalks. Macon has such enormous potential to be a charming, small city.

I'm told an urban planner from Europe was called in by the city a few years to make an assessment, and even he marveled at Macon's potential. Personally, I think Macon should create a pedestrian-only boulevard downtown---perhaps Cherry Street from the Terminal Station to Second St? I think Pearl St. in Boulder or Colorado Blvd. in Pasadena would be good examples to emulate.

I think Savannah is doing just fine---what a unique and captivating place!

Don't know much about Columbus or Augusta, though I find their downtown areas certainly less inviting than Savannah or even Macon, for that matter.

I agree.  I like the way Macon's downtown was planned.   It really has a lot of potential.    Augusta's downtown is more like Atlanta's, which means that no planning whatsoever, just throw some streets down and call it a city.  Plus, the Great Fire of the early 20th Century (I love saying that) really hurt downtown Augusta and left a lot of vacant lots.

People in Augusta lack pride.   Most people who live in the suburbs are very critical of the city and choose to identify with their own little towns (though not as bad as Atlanta).   It leads to a lot of "Man, this town sucks" or "I hate this place" remarks, but when you ask them further, they usually love their little suburban area which is usually just a few minutes from town.   We need to end that in Augusta.   People need to be unified, though it is hard with our government, which may be the most corrupt in Georgia (outside of the Bill Campbell administration).

[jungletobacco]

^ You hit it on the head right there! Our government has set Augusta back at least 15 years with money managment problem and special interest. Our downtown skyline will get better but on the street level there are alot of blight area that need to be deal with. Another thing holding Augusta back is the mentality of getting 'something for nothing'. The city fill with a bunch of old no good buildings that need to torn down and rebuilt because everything that old isnt history. (Old Town!)

Macon has great interstate access, nice downtown and close proximity to Atlanta. Why hasnt it out grown Columbus or Augusta?

[Savboy08]

jungletobacco, on Jan 2 2007, 07:03 PM, said:

^ You hit it on the head right there! Our government has set Augusta back at least 15 years with money managment problem and special interest. Our downtown skyline will get better but on the street level there are alot of blight area that need to be deal with. Another thing holding Augusta back is the mentality of getting 'something for nothing'. The city fill with a bunch of old no good buildings that need to torn down and rebuilt because everything that old isnt history. (Old Town!)

Macon has great interstate access, nice downtown and close proximity to Atlanta. Why hasnt it out grown Columbus or Augusta?

I'd have to say, it is because they are "too" close the Atlanta area.  This can both a good an bad thing.  It is bad because it almost puts them in "direct" competition with Atlanta when it comes to industry location and things of that nature.  However, it may be good because some people in Atlanta may want a more laid back residential area, or people who want to work in Atlanta metro, but don't want to live there could simply settle down in Macon.  It's quite funny how we often go up to Atlanta, and we stop at some area south of Macon. (doesn't matter how far south lol) They will ask me and my family where we are from.  We tell them we are from Savannah, they are like "Oh, I just love it there"(I, myself, can't really say that) and then we tell them where we are going(Atlanta), and there like "I don't like it, it's just too fast".  This tends to happen no matter where we stop.  Many people outside of second tier cities and Atlanta don't seem to find Atlanta very appealing because of its fast pace.



My only problem with Savannah is the fact that it almost seems to better cater to tourists than its own citizens.  For tourists from other regions of the U.S.(particularly the north), the Savannah are may become somewhat ideal(as they already have money we try to draw them), however I haven't seen a huge effort to drastically improve the living conditions and oppurtunities for our long-time residents and native population.  I'll give Mayor Johnson some credit for at least making a nice attempt at lowering the poverty rate and improving the education system.  Our taxes will go up 1%(with SPLOST/ESPLOST renewal), but I find it worth it as I am a student at one of the highschools here.  I hate the attitude of those people who willing to constantly complain about our public school system and then complain more when they have to pay a little more for an effort to improve it. Ironically, a lot of these people's children are in private school.  So it is like their actions are telling me that they are complaining about something they don't really care about.  Perhaps the complaining is a way of feeding some strange superiority complex since their children are in private school(many of which are not too great in the Savannah area).


Either way, our public school system needs to improve as we need a well-educated work force to attract higher paying businesses, in my opinion.

Edited by Savboy08, 02 January 2007 - 07:13 PM.

[jungletobacco]

^I think Savannah is a cool place to visit, St Patrick's Day is sooo crazy.  But the crime is just as crazy and I was there for a year and people cant walk around without getting mugged. That the only thing I can say bad about Savannah GA.

[yerocal]

This is a very interesting topic, what is really holding back georgia's 2nd tier cities. I can sort of speak a little about all the 2nd tier cities, they all have  so much great potential, why has they not all sored as other state's 2nd tier cities, and I believe that has a lot to do with local government and citzens.... I notice that anytime there are new proposals announced there are local citzens always bicering against growth but alway complaining about a bad economy in these areas, how are you going to expect  the job market and economy in these cities to improve when you always building wall to block growth. The cities' leaders need to become more modernize and up to speed.  Not saying it not important to preserve history or the southern charm but don't preserve so much to where it's hendering positive modernization and growth potenitals.  These cities need to find away to preserve the cities' charm, history and etc. and also keep up the time and have more to offer as others state cities and maybe so of this growth falling into metro Atlanta will start looking at Augusta, Macon, Columbus and Savannah for some of Commerical, Corporate growth aswell. Atlanta may not have as much history or charm but it has built a name for its self to the point they really don't have to recuit businesses, it just that businesses find atlanta is just the hippest  place to be right now and that what the 2nd tier cites needs to be, al ittle more hipper and up with style, instead of being old fashion and turning their nose up at growth just because it may speed their city up a little, growth is not alway negative....and that I why I think people seem to always oppose it...

[jungletobacco]

Yes there are people who are scared of growth and our elected officials have to represent those people. Classic example, Augusta was trying to get a state of the art dragstrip built in south Augusta. South Augusta has the most available land for development in Augusta so, the location was perfect. The dragstrip promised one national event (IHRA or NHRA) that will bring in millions and make Augusta regional destination for racing. Some local had a problem with it, didnt want the noise, didnt want the traffic and though it was a waste of taxpayers money. The commissioner of that area of south Augusta was against the dragstrip and convinced the other commissioners that the project was flawed. That why I hope the 2 proposed interstate be built in Augusta because the growth will come.......like it or not.

Atlanta is not the enemy....we are our own enemy.

[Savboy08]

yerocal, on Jan 2 2007, 09:35 PM, said:

This is a very interesting topic, what is really holding back georgia's 2nd tier cities. I can sort of speak a little about all the 2nd tier cities, they all have  so much great potential, why has they not all sored as other state's 2nd tier cities, and I believe that has a lot to do with local government and citzens.... I notice that anytime there are new proposals announced there are local citzens always bicering against growth but alway complaining about a bad economy in these areas, how are you going to expect  the job market and economy in these cities to improve when you always building wall to block growth. The cities' leaders need to become more modernize and up to speed.  Not saying it not important to preserve history or the southern charm but don't preserve so much to where it's hendering positive modernization and growth potenitals.  These cities need to find away to preserve the cities' charm, history and etc. and also keep up the time and have more to offer as others state cities and maybe so of this growth falling into metro Atlanta will start looking at Augusta, Macon, Columbus and Savannah for some of Commerical, Corporate growth aswell. Atlanta may not have as much history or charm but it has built a name for its self to the point they really don't have to recuit businesses, it just that businesses find atlanta is just the hippest  place to be right now and that what the 2nd tier cites needs to be, al ittle more hipper and up with style, instead of being old fashion and turning their nose up at growth just because it may speed their city up a little, growth is not alway negative....and that I why I think people seem to always oppose it...

Bingo!!  There you go!  However, I think this is bigger problem in Savannah than it is in any of the fall-line cities as I said in another thread.  Savannah people go crazy if "one" tree was to be chopped down.  I wonder if they have heard of replanting.  But no, the reasoning is sort of like , "well this tree has been around for 150 years and I'll be darned if it's chopped down now."

Many cities in the south know how to modernize and while preserving/creating greenspace at the same time.   I just thank goodness for outlying suburbs like Pooler that have some hope.  Instead of resisting and protesting against developments that might bring growth they plan for ways to deal with it.




I just hope the waterpark is built out there within the next few years.  I'd hate for that to be cancelled like the mall and multiplex theater that was announced late 2005.  I'm guessing things get cancelled there because the deveopers/companies are skeptical about the growth in the area.  If they think the Pooler area is lagging, they may want to think again.  It has probably approaching double its population in 2000.(6,000 or so)  I don't think these companies know what they are missing.  Building a mall and movie there may have worked considering the amount of time and gas it would save those people travelling from parts of Bryan county and all of Effingham(or any surrounding county to our north or west. Effingham grows pretty fast) County.  They must have only looked at the immediate area which wasn't far from GeorgeTown, Garden City, and the rest of West Chatham.  Those people would probably have preferred a newer mall over the Savannah Mall which is currently the closest to those areas.  What a shame, hopefully they'll get another chance.

Edited by Savboy08, 02 January 2007 - 10:01 PM.

[yerocal]

jungletobacco, on Jan 2 2007, 10:48 PM, said:

Yes there are people who are scared of growth and our elected officials have to represent those people. Classic example, Augusta was trying to get a state of the art dragstrip built in south Augusta. South Augusta has the most available land for development in Augusta so, the location was perfect. The dragstrip promised one national event (IHRA or NHRA) that will bring in millions and make Augusta regional destination for racing. Some local had a problem with it, didnt want the noise, didnt want the traffic and though it was a waste of taxpayers money. The commissioner of that area of south Augusta was against the dragstrip and convinced the other commissioners that the project was flawed. That why I hope the 2 proposed interstate be built in Augusta because the growth will come.......like it or not.

Atlanta is not the enemy....we are our own enemy.

you are exactly right, we are our own enemy....

[andremurra]

Statesboro: Maybe not a 2nd Tier city.

1. Students with no household income living off campus and counted in the city's household income formulas

2. Ridiculous Alcohol Ordinances, in addition to overly-conservative leadership

3. Georgia Department of Transportation delaying our vitally necessary road construction projects

4. No interstate connection

5. Shaky relationship between City and University

6. 35' Height Restrictions

[gah]

Regarding Columbus

I totally agree that a lack of transportation (both interstate and air connections) is the BIGGEST  factor holding Columbus back.  There MUST be interstate connections north to Rome/Chattanooga, South to Albany/Tallahassee. West to Montgomery/Birmingham and east to Macon/Savannah/Augusta.  As military readiness is one of the bases for the interstate system, the lack of Ft benning's connectedness is inexplicable.   Likewise there must be dependable air carrier to Atlanta and at least one or two other hubs (Charlotte or Washington)

Also education -- the public schools are terrible (but probably no worse than in comparable cities).  Suffered from a serious "brain drain" when it was the biggest city in America without any college (public or private) until CSU created in late 50's.  Now CSU (and Columbus Tech) are bright spots.  But, unlike Macon (Mercer, Weslyan) Columbus has only one generation of locally-educated college graduates

Suffers from the mill-military blue collar image, which was certainly accurate until the 80's when the economy first started to diversify.  Until 20 years ago, most bright kids went away to college and stayed away and the less educated moved in to work at teh mills.  Now the last of the mills are on the way out.  Economy has struggled just to stay in place as new jobs simply replaced old mill jobs lost, consequently status quo rather than growth. Need to develop new ihigh tech, white collar image based on TSYS, etc.  (think Huntsville)

DT still very much a work in progress.  Much less desirable/attractive than Macon or Augusta.  Trains still move thru DT and traffic!  However, CSU is helping with development  as are new condos and proposed white water course will be a major attraction leading to hotel/restaurant/bar influx.

[jungletobacco]

^Lack of transportation (in every sense of the word) and bad Board of Education........sound like Augusta to me! lol

[Spartan]

Wow, I had no idea that Columbus was like that. The lack of transportation is an obvious problem that anyone with a map could figure out. But that lack of schools thing I had never heard before.

I think that the Fall Line interstate concept is one that would benefit all of Georgia's second tier cities.

[gah]

Spartan, on Jan 13 2007, 12:39 PM, said:

Wow, I had no idea that Columbus was like that. The lack of transportation is an obvious problem that anyone with a map could figure out. But that lack of schools thing I had never heard before.

I think that the Fall Line interstate concept is one that would benefit all of Georgia's second tier cities.

What is important about education (as well as most other things in Columbus) is that it is in a definite turn-around (except maybe for public schools which are probably unsalvageable nationwide).  CSU and Columbus Tech are stellar facilities and the "brain drain" to which I referred is rapidly disappearing (in fact, some profs at CSU -- especially the Schwab Music School --  are the tops in their field).  The ultimate point is that when a "lack" does become apparant, Columbus (unlike some other cities) tries (usually) to rectify the problem.  Hence, CSU and Columbus Tech in education, I-185 in transportation, DT redevelopment, whitewater, Infantry Museum, etc.  That "can do" spirit is the main reason why I think that Columbus  has the potential to be a breakaway among the 2d tier cities.  With all its PAST deficiencies, it has struggled but still maintained a place among the  2d tier cities.   It is probably only an interstate connection (or 2 or 3) and a decade (or 2 or 3) of trying to catch up with the others before it could start to pull out to the fore and start to take the lead.

[suburban george3]

Pillsbury, on Jan 2 2007, 05:13 PM, said:

People in Augusta lack pride.   Most people who live in the suburbs are very critical of the city and choose to identify with their own little towns (though not as bad as Atlanta).   It leads to a lot of "Man, this town sucks" or "I hate this place" remarks, but when you ask them further, they usually love their little suburban area which is usually just a few minutes from town.   We need to end that in Augusta.   People need to be unified, though it is hard with our government, which may be the most corrupt in Georgia (outside of the Bill Campbell administration).

Pillsbury, you're right..  it has amazed me when I'm in Augusta how bad locals put down the area.  There is much potential there but as long as everyone carries a negative attitude towards the main city and gov't holds it back it will flounder.

[GAOnMyMind]

Pillsbury, on Jan 2 2007, 05:13 PM, said:

People in Augusta lack pride. Most people who live in the suburbs are very critical of the city and choose to identify with their own little towns (though not as bad as Atlanta). It leads to a lot of "Man, this town sucks" or "I hate this place" remarks, but when you ask them further, they usually love their little suburban area which is usually just a few minutes from town. We need to end that in Augusta. People need to be unified, though it is hard with our government, which may be the most corrupt in Georgia (outside of the Bill Campbell administration).

The reason some Augustans (and especially those in Hephzibah and Blythe) have more pride in their backyards is because of the decades of infighting with the city itself. All those years of ol' Billy using his paper as a way to lamblast us as some backwoods ingrates, too.

It's that type of infighting that causes folks to be more proud of their immediate locale than the whole city. It's also why I refused to vote for consolidation (why join the elitist pigs to keep putting our side of the city down?).

I've lived out back of Tobacco Road for over 30 years (nearly all my life). Have watched the once NICE and QUIET two lane highways and just subdivisions and shops turn into a ugly and loud urban sprawl. Is that right? Is replacing greenery with miles of improperly used tar and concrete (as semi's are using Highway 56 instead of their specially build 56 loop route) "development"? Is economic segregation of turning whole regions into Section-8 housing appropriate, while others exclude race by $$$$$$$ (yeah, Augusta has a-l-o-t to say about racial politics, especially when 82% of Columbia country is white, and it's due to whites fleeing South Augusta to live in those $200,000+ homes. Running joke out here about Evans folks: How can you tell if it's an Evans boy or not? Just look for his $50,000 4x4 with it's CB whip, a baseball cap, and Copenhagen ring on his back pocket)?

The "Southside Mafia" moved wholesale to Columbia county right next door to ol' Billy -- how's that for irony?!

The division now is socioeconomic and over party lines (Democrats/Augusta and Republicans/Evans and Martinez). As long as partisanship is alive, and the media keeps the divisive politics going, uniting as a metro area that's proud of it's central city is null. Folks will be asking folks to goto bed with those who wish to keep folks in "their place". Not happening until true socioeconomic, true urban planning, and political tomfoolery is gone (which includes giving a certain radio host a one way ticket to Atlanta where he's living now anyway. Politics hasn't been this divisive in decades until he came along making race an issue on almost everything, over and over and over).

Edited by GAOnMyMind, 28 January 2007 - 08:04 AM.

[Pillsbury]

^ Haha!!  Most people don't know that about Austin!!! You know, he did his radio show for the longest time up there in like Cobb County or something.  I couldn't believe it when I heard it.   But he's back now--seems he had alittle domestic problem up there.....

Of course, the Southside Mafia is still on the southside, but they've broken up.   The race for Judge proved that.   They couldn't even get their guy through (who was much more experienced and deserved the job).  Instead, a Columbia County Republican is on the bench now---a rarity in Augusta politics until recently.

suburban george3, on Jan 16 2007, 11:28 PM, said:

Pillsbury, you're right..  it has amazed me when I'm in Augusta how bad locals put down the area.  There is much potential there but as long as everyone carries a negative attitude towards the main city and gov't holds it back it will flounder.

I love this insane little town.  It's like a small town version of Atlanta.   Everybody hates it, but no one ever leaves.  Even people who move from other towns are like end up sticking around.

Edited by Pillsbury, 29 January 2007 - 02:31 PM.

[GAOnMyMind]

Pillsbury, on Jan 29 2007, 03:25 PM, said:

But he's back now--seems he had alittle domestic problem up there.....

Not again? Or is it that restraint order incident?

Man, I got to follow more of his real life soap operas. It's better than "reality" TV!