28 replies to this topic

[michaelskis]

New Development and Redevelopment is only a factor of a place’s economy. Michigan is behind the rest of the country. Some say politics, other say the motor companies, yet others will site a resistance to change.

In terms of new job growth, real estate property values, median famility income, and a multitude of other factors, Michigan is running dead last or close to it. Additionally, Michigan looses more college graduates to other states than any other state. It might be that we have some phenomenal colleges and universities which we do, but I think that more of the problem is other states have businesses and cities that have more to offer.

Michigan can be not only the Greatest of the Great Lake State, but the Greatest State in the Country.

What can be done to change the economy in Michigan? What is holding us back?

[tracer1138]

There are probably a million different things that can be done... are you asking what can be done in terms of planning and land use, tax structure, health and education, the environment, regulation...?

I know its an unpopular idea, especially in southeast Michigan, but I would begin by making Michigan a right to work state.  I don't want to disable unions altogether because I believe they have their uses, but I would like to limit the power they've attained - frequently I think they use it for their own purposes rather than their workers (I mean, what good is fighting for your worker's inflated salaries and benefits if the company folds and they lose their jobs?).

Also, I am of the opinion that we need to re-work our budgeting laws. I think that it should be ok to run a slight deficit (for a limited period of time)  and even increase government spending during rough economic years so as to update infrastructure and help re-organize the economy and soften the blow to businesses and people. But then, it must be simultaneously necessary to run budget surpluses and cut government spending in economic boom years.
That might run counter to what most would think tell you, but I think it's good fiscal policy.

I think its good that the legislature cut the Single Business tax and I believe that only half of it should be replaced as long as it is accompanied by other pro-business policies.
Tax your businesses low, regulate them medium - regulate your people low and tax them medium.
If businesses come, people will follow.

Finally, in terms of land use planning:
We need to invest heavily in our cities - most especially in terms of infrastructure, education and health.  I think Granholm is on the right track in seeking to insure every Michigan Resident, but I have been recently less than happy with her cuts to education.  I voted for the ballot initiative to increase education spending annually - perhaps the wording and logisitcs weren't right, but I wanted to get it across that the idea was good.

I'm really sold on the idea of abolishing townships from the standpoint of reducing the size of government and eliminating redundancies.  On top of that, it would reduce intra-regional infighting and aid regionalization.

We could start with these things.

Edited by tracer1138, 14 January 2007 - 04:26 PM.

[moonshield]

Enact a right to work law, and strengthen education standards.

Michigan has great natural beauty, maybe that could be promoted more.

[wolverine]

If I can't find a job here in Michigan, I'm leaving for Chicago.


But I did get a job in Saginaw, so I'm staying!   For now.

[michaelskis]

tracer1138, on Jan 14 2007, 05:24 PM, said:

There are probably a million different things that can be done... are you asking what can be done in terms of planning and land use, tax structure, health and education, the environment, regulation...?

[SNIP]

We could start with these things.

Let me start by saying that I completely agree with everything that you just said. More so, it is obvious that you have thought about this very topic and you have reasons behind your ideas.

In addition to what you said, I think that as a state we need to start investing more in public transportation, especially rail (Heavy and Light) and less on auto traffic. It would be a very valuable asset to everyone, reduce traffic congestion, and help to reduce the states dependence on oil.

Repeal the minimum wage increase on the state level. The majority of people in Michigan who make minimum wage are high school students who don’t need a large income. More so, even those with a below average work ethic don’t stay in that position/ pay scale for very long.

[hudkina]

I think one of the easiest ways to control spending and harbor regionalism is to eliminate the township government and consolidate suburban cities.  For example, Oakland County should eliminate all its townships and all of the "traditional" cities should annex their surroundings.  In that way you'd have Oakland County (which would control several things such as elections, schools, emergency services, etc.) and cities such as Royal Oak, Pontiac, Birmingham, Farmington, Milford, South Lyon, Holly, Oxford, Rochester, etc. that would encompass areas closer to 50 sq. mi.  Southfield Town Center would be a "neighborhood" in Royal Oak.  Twelve Oaks Mall would be on Northville's north end.  The Big Beaver Corridor would run through Birmingham.  Chrysler would be headquartered in Pontiac, and so on.

[hudkina]

michaelskis, on Jan 15 2007, 09:02 AM, said:

Repeal the minimum wage increase on the state level. The majority of people in Michigan who make minimum wage are high school students who don’t need a large income. More so, even those with a below average work ethic don’t stay in that position/ pay scale for very long.

If the Minimum Wage law only affects low-paying service jobs then it wouldn't really hurt the economy as a whole.  McDonald's is still going to operate in Michigan whether they pay their workers $5.15 or $6.95.  An engineering firm seeking a new headquarters isn't going to bypass Michigan because the minimum wage went up.  Besides, the federal minimum wage is going to go up now that the Democrats have regained Congress, so the point will be moot in a year or two.

[GRDadof3]

hudkina, on Jan 15 2007, 08:37 PM, said:

I think one of the easiest ways to control spending and harbor regionalism is to eliminate the township government and consolidate suburban cities.  For example, Oakland County should eliminate all its townships and all of the "traditional" cities should annex their surroundings.  In that way you'd have Oakland County (which would control several things such as elections, schools, emergency services, etc.) and cities such as Royal Oak, Pontiac, Birmingham, Farmington, Milford, South Lyon, Holly, Oxford, Rochester, etc. that would encompass areas closer to 50 sq. mi.  Southfield Town Center would be a "neighborhood" in Royal Oak.  Twelve Oaks Mall would be on Northville's north end.  The Big Beaver Corridor would run through Birmingham.  Chrysler would be headquartered in Pontiac, and so on.

I don't know that it would lead to job and population growth though.  If you look at the Southern and Southwestern states that are growing, they have very low taxes.  If you wrap the townships into the cities, those areas will require the expanded services that are given in the cities (fire, police, trash, etc.).  That will push taxes up in the townships, which I think will cause even more people to leave the state.  I've talked to a few people from outside Michigan who already think our property taxes in Michigan are too high.  In Georgia, they pay 1/2 to 1/3 the property taxes we pay, and their sales tax is similar to ours.

Heavier taxes on the people in the townships may be the final straw for people who are concerned about the economy but are sticking around to see it through.

[MJLO]

just a quick correction on something.  Michigans economy is lagging, but it is still one of the higher states when it comes to median income I believe it's still in the top 20 although it has fallen a few spots from where it was.  It takes more than a couple years of a dirty economy to lower the wages.

[suydam]

MJLO, on Jan 16 2007, 07:01 PM, said:

just a quick correction on something.  Michigans economy is lagging, but it is still one of the higher states when it comes to median income I believe it's still in the top 20 although it has fallen a few spots from where it was.  It takes more than a couple years of a dirty economy to lower the wages.

In the immortal words of Ed McMahon: You are correct sir!

Michigan ranked 21st in January of 2006.  While things have likely worsened since then, I'd bet we're still reasonably close to that spot.

http://money.cnn.com...e_gap/index.htm

Edited by suydam, 17 January 2007 - 08:04 PM.

[NorthCoast]

Michigan like Ohio put all of its eggs in the manufacturing basket.

The bogging down of the auto industry by outdated groups such as the UAW and other labor unions haven't helped either.

[Lmichigan]

Some unions may be muddying the waters, but they are hardly obsolete.

[tracer1138]

Lmichigan, on Jan 18 2007, 08:45 PM, said:

Some unions may be muddying the waters, but they are hardly obsolete.

I agree, I don't think unions are obsolete, but do I think they have perhaps gained too much power and have lost sight of their initial intent, that's why I think at least making Michigan a right to work state will let companies know what workers really want (Do they want to keep their jobs or keep their unions?)

[Lmichigan]

I don't think we need to be racing towards the bottom, though.  Outside of manufacturing, the economy is actually fairly healthy.  I know manufacturing takes up alot of our economy, but I'm not sure that we need any of the radical changes being discussed.  Despite popular belief, the sky is not falling.  This is not to paint a glossy picture, but I think our focus needs to be on education to retool the economy.  This idea of busting unions (who's numbers are declining on there own) and lowering taxes (without raising it somewhere else where it will hurt less) in a state with a shrinking tax base doesn't jive with me.  I think the focus are on the wrong things when talking about the downsizing manufacturing economy.

Edited by Lmichigan, 19 January 2007 - 01:12 AM.

[monsoon]

I will give you an outsider's perspective.   Michigan is still a very fortunate state especially when you compare it to a states such as Mississippi, Alabama, and South Carolina.   These are places that have never allowed unions to have any real power, there are few taxes and regulations on business, and local governments have relatively little control over property owners.    These are the things that are being advocated in this thread that Michigan should follow.  

What has happened in the states that I mention, and other parts of the rural South where this exists, is they have the appearance of high growth and prosperity where the reality is quite different.   They have grown because businesses have shifted work there in order to exploit the low cost work force, the cheap land and taxes, and very forgiving regulations.   Unfortunately this was a losing proposition for the people who lived in these states as the profits did not remain in the area, a strong middle class did not develop and their biggest advantage, cheap land and people,  has completely disappeared now that the USA has entered into free trade agreements with the third world.   These places are losing jobs quickly to Mexico and China, and big ghost towns are developing.   Most of the growth these days in South Carolina for example are people locating to the coastal areas to either retire or they have a lot of money to move to build a McMansion on the beach.

What Michigan does have over places such as this  is a large very well educated population, great infrastructure, and several large urban areas that have an easier time in attracting the right kind of development over the backwashes in the South.   My recommendation is that the state needs to figure out how to leverage these advantages to diversify the economy beyond the automobile industry and forget trying to emulate what has appeared to make the South successful.

[Lmichigan]

monsoon, on Jan 19 2007, 05:44 AM, said:

My recommendation is that the state needs to figure out how to leverage these advantages to diversify the economy beyond the automobile industry and forget trying to emulate what has appeared to make the South successful.

Exactly; those are very good observations you made there.  I find too many people wanting to make Michigan the next Georgia or Arizona, which, IMO, is not something we should be aiming for.  Not all, but a lot of this growth can be chalked up to what is called a "Wal-Mart Economy" which gives the apperance of success, but is really anything but for the people exploited by it.  It doesn't help to raise standards of living, and it doesn't grow the middle class significantly enough to offset all of the negatives that come along with this "success".  Growth for its own sake, if it doesn't bring along with it a better standard of living, is not something we need to be chasing.  Again, we don't need to close this proverbial factory we call Michigan, down, what we need is a creative retooling of this proverbial factory.  What works in a Georgia or Arizona won't necessarily work for Michigan, and nor should we be trying to force a square peg through a circular hole in a sign of desperation because we don't want to think creatively.  Michigan already got itself in trouble back in the 1920's counting on low-skill auto jobs lasting forever.  We don't need to tread that road, but with different industries.  Those days are done.  The days of a more high-skilled economy are here.  We can either greatly turn our focus on increased education to meet this new higher-skilled economy, or we can keep trying to dig in our heels and losing out by trying to repeat the same things that failed us before.  The auto industry is working itself out, as painful as that may be, and we don't need to make that even more painful for those that have every right to fight for their well-being.

Edited by Lmichigan, 19 January 2007 - 05:26 PM.

[GRDadof3]

Boy, when it rains it pours:

Pfizer closing facilities, cutting jobs

Pfizer to shut down 3 Michigan plants

Not good for Ann Arbor, where 2100 jobs will be cut, and Kzoo, where another 250 will be cut.  Really, not good for any of us in Michigan.

Pfizer's in a world of hurt, now that Lipitor is running out on its patent in 2010 and they had so many problems with their patient trials for the replacement drug, where 50 or 60 people died.

[Snowguy716]

Diversification of the economy is very important.  Michigan has so many great opportunities, not only with its natural beauty, but with moving forward in the information economy.

One of the things that has made Minnesota very successful has been the relationships that our governors have formed all around the world.  Rudy Perpich made many international trips during the 1980s, basically marketing Minnesota to the world, and a lot of companies bit.  We now have a Swedish toilet manufacturer building a plant not too far from my city that will provide 200-300 jobs to the area.

The tradition was kept with Arne Carlson, and even more so with Jesse Ventura, who made trips to China and even to Cuba to expand trade.  Tim Pawlenty has created relationships with Chinese officials for educational and vocational exchanges that increase interest in development within the state.

I really don't think Michigan should look to improve itself by trying to look more like the south, where there is an emphasis on low-paying service jobs that ultimately rely on the momentum of growth... once an area maxes out, the construction jobs leave and the market becomes saturated, leaving many places out in the cold.

Michigan should concentrate on attracting high paying, high-skill jobs even if it is delayed gratification.  Our growth here in Minnesota has been phenominal with economic slowdowns lighter than the rest of the nation and economic booms bigger than the rest of the nation because the government focused on education, health care, and infrastructure.  It has paid off tremendously.

[Lmichigan]

Our governor has already done the globetrotting game, and does it regularly. (i.e. her motto of "going anywhere, and doing anything for Michigan" or something to that effect).  Even mayors of Michigan's larger cities do this.  Lansing mayor Virg Bernero went to South Korea for a week, and Kwame Kilpatrick of Detroit has been to Dubai (and God knows where else), on these job searches.

[Huntsville_secede]

Lmichigan, on Jan 22 2007, 04:15 PM, said:

Our governor has already done the globetrotting game, and does it regularly. (i.e. her motto of "going anywhere, and doing anything for Michigan" or something to that effect).  Even mayors of Michigan's larger cities do this.  Lansing mayor Virg Bernero went to South Korea for a week, and Kwame Kilpatrick of Detroit has been to Dubai (and God knows where else), on these job searches.

Without jobs Michigan will continue to suffer.. Phizer today announced it is closing its Michigan operations and with it 2500 jobs.  These kind of losses are devastating, Michigan needs to attract some kind of new job industry to offest the losses, thats the only way we can see a turnaround to become the prosperous place it was pre 80's