379 replies to this topic

[Cotuit]

And of course if there were frequent late night street car and bus service throughout the city people would have less need to bring their cars to College Hill.

[jencoleslaw]

i thought college hill's beef was that the area would become even more congested with students' cars. Right now lots of students don't have cars because they have no place to park and the fear is that if they could park overnight on the street, then they would bring their cars to school.  There are many ways to solve that problem however, some of which are already on the books--and some can be written into the policy of onstreet, permitted parking.

It would be nice to know how the pilot is going...

but back on topic--the light rail in PDX was so great. It didn't go to N Portland, where i worked so i couldn't commute to work that way, but i did often use it to shop downtown, and sometimes i had to drive downtown and park and then i used "Fareless square" feature of the light rail.  There was a block of blocks downtown where you could ride the light rail for free and it was MOST of downtown, which, as you can imagine was a heck of a lot bigger than our downtown.

[quente]

I went on the "internets" and found some interesting stuff on streetcars. Evidently, at one time, the streetcar system in southern New England was quite extensive. In fact, you could travel from New York to Boston via Springfield, MA or Providence by taking the interurban streetcar lines! Hard to believe that such an option existed.

Here are some streetcar links:

Photos of Providence streetcars

Blurb on RIPTA streetcar study: According to this blurb from May 2006, 2 routes in Providence are being looked at along Allens Avenue and Valley Street plus a third route along the waterfront in East Providence.

Article from The Economist - Aug. 2006 and LA Streetcar Feasibility Study: These two links look at the move by a number of cities towards investment in light rail and other public transportation. I quickly glanced through the LA study which has a section about the benefits of streetcars, particularly in downtown commercial districts. Good information for making the case.

[Recchia]

I go through Washington Park daily at around 5:45am and there really aren't too many cars parked on the street at all, despite the pilot being in place there.  However, right when you hit the Cranston line, there's a bunch of cars always parked on Narragansett Blvd outside the JWU Hospitality Center, presumably students' cars.  I guess this is what College Hill is afraid of, but as Jen said, write something into the overnight on-street parking ordinance.

[jencoleslaw]

Recchia, on Jan 16 2007, 01:57 PM, said:

I go through Washington Park daily at around 5:45am and there really aren't too many cars parked on the street at all, despite the pilot being in place there.  However, right when you hit the Cranston line, there's a bunch of cars always parked on Narragansett Blvd outside the JWU Hospitality Center, presumably students' cars.  I guess this is what College Hill is afraid of, but as Jen said, write something into the overnight on-street parking ordinance.

i heard, but i don't know where so its possible i dreamt it, that only 100 people in washington park signed up to be part of the pilot program.

[f1rehead]

Professor Scott Malloy from URI gave a talk on The Age of Trolley Transportation in Providence last week at the WBNA Annual Meeting. It was pretty interesting and he really loves the subject.

[Recchia]

jencoleslaw, on Jan 16 2007, 03:24 PM, said:

i heard, but i don't know where so its possible i dreamt it, that only 100 people in washington park signed up to be part of the pilot program.

yeah, I have a feeling that everyone has already paved over their yards to accommodate the cars and now feel no need to endanger their vehicle by parking on the street   .  There are more cars parked on my street in Warwick than I see in Washington Park (and I have yet to find a drug dealer hiding under my car yet...)

[dgreco]

Cotuit, on Jan 15 2007, 11:13 PM, said:

Yes, they'd be like the above ground greenline sections. Most of Providence, given our physical environment will likely be more like the E with trains in traffic, though further out of downtown there is room for tracks in their own medians, like the C line.

thanks

[Baines]

quente, on Jan 16 2007, 01:46 PM, said:

I went on the "internets" and found some interesting stuff on streetcars. Evidently, at one time, the streetcar system in southern New England was quite extensive. In fact, you could travel from New York to Boston via Springfield, MA or Providence by taking the interurban streetcar lines! Hard to believe that such an option existed.

Here are some streetcar links:

Photos of Providence streetcars

Blurb on RIPTA streetcar study: According to this blurb from May 2006, 2 routes in Providence are being looked at along Allens Avenue and Valley Street plus a third route along the waterfront in East Providence.

Article from The Economist - Aug. 2006 and LA Streetcar Feasibility Study: These two links look at the move by a number of cities towards investment in light rail and other public transportation. I quickly glanced through the LA study which has a section about the benefits of streetcars, particularly in downtown commercial districts. Good information for making the case.

Excellent sources.

Let me offer a perspective for the purpose of further insight and discussion.

The concept and logic is strongly defendable and, in my view, feasible due to six factors:
1 Providence Metro is the 6th most densly populated in the nation; as the city proper is one of the most dense
2 Providence has a history of prior use of trolley
3 Providence has some infrastructure remaining that can support new light rail
3 Providence Metro demographics support light rail/trolley - age, economic, work patterns, colleges, government services, etc
4 Many major existing roadways can support light rail/trolley; both east-west and north-south
    *Allens Avenue from the Jewery District to Cranston city line; supporting new waterfront development projects
    * Broadway connecting the westend and western suburbs with Federal Hill and Downcity
    * North Main Street from central Pawtucket to South Main Street - supported by trolley/bus to Downcity    
    * Kennedy Plaza through the College Hill tunnel to the East Side; connecting the East Side with Downcity
    * Broadway connecting the westend and western suburbs with Downcity
    * Valley Street to the area of Capital Center/Providence Place; supporting new riverfront development projects
    * TF Green to Downcity  
4 Creating an easier transportation system into and out of the central city is facilitated by light rail/trolley  
5 Providence will, by 2010 have acheived major milestones in the current progress and wil have gained momentum for more
    * TF Green Metro Center and TF Green rennovations
    * W Providence Hotel and Residences
    * Route 195 relocation and parcel development progress
    * Capital Center residential projects (and maybe commercial)
    * PowerBlock nearly complete - Westin 2, DD Center, E@B, 111, etc
    * Arcade, Grants Block, and others ??????
6 Providence's rputation is, and should continue, to fuel growth IF managed and support...big if

Nothing operates in a vaccum and frankly, without an even modest return to the glory days of LBJ's Grwat Society urban renewal effort, a business growth environment in RI, and strong leadership in breaking the suburban negativity towards PVD, it will be tough. But I believe it is a worthy vision.

[pdxstreetcar]

Here's some information on Portland's Streetcar which this proposal would be modeled after.  It is quite different from a large scale regional Light Rail system or historic trolley lines...
NYC Subway.org - Portland Streetcar
Portland Streetcar website
Portland's 3-D Streetcars

Simple Track Construction:

heritagetrolley.org

Stops:

heritagetrolley.org

Likely Streetcars for Providence (Portland, DC, Tacoma, Seattle, Miami, Atlanta all either use these or will use these):

heritagetrolley.org

Atlanta Streetcar (proposed):
http://www.atlantastreetcar.com/

Seattle's South Lake Union Streetcar (under construction):
http://www.seattle.g...n/stcar_slu.htm
http://www.buildthestreetcar.org/

Miami Streetcar (proposal):
http://ci.miami.fl.u...treetcar/pages/

Washington DC Anacostia Streetcar (under construction):
http://www.dctransitfuture.com/

[Jerry2]

[tracer1138]

I've ridden a good chunck of Portland's Streetcar System (and the light rail system as well) and I have to say that it is fantastic. If I could get to work every day like that, life would be so much more enjoyable.

[matt]

I WANT THAT!!!

[MapmanNo1]

There's no overnight on-street parking in Providence!? Good God, people, get with it! A residential permit program is a no-brainer, though it might get hairy with the CHNA and/or others when it comes to college students getting permits.

Newport's had a (seasonal) residential permit program for years! Most streets are permit-only at night, but a few are 24-hour permit-only zones. I just can't believe Providence hasn't done this on the East/West Sides yet because of the restaurants.

[runawayjim]

MapmanNo1, on Jan 20 2007, 02:32 PM, said:

There's no overnight on-street parking in Providence!? Good God, people, get with it! A residential permit program is a no-brainer, though it might get hairy with the CHNA and/or others when it comes to college students getting permits.

Newport's had a (seasonal) residential permit program for years! Most streets are permit-only at night, but a few are 24-hour permit-only zones. I just can't believe Providence hasn't done this on the East/West Sides yet because of the restaurants.

the way the program should work is that you have to show a signed lease to get a permit.  that allows college students to get permits, but their friends don't.  the only thing it will require is active enforcement and not what they do with the overnight thing.  there's plenty of streets in the city that you can park overnight on, until someone complains.  there was a week when the woman below me had her friends park in the driveway (back when i was the one with driveway rights) and i had to leave my car on the street overnight.  a week straight and no ticket.  so there's not even rotating enforcement on certain streets.

[TheBostonian]

No forumers have made maps with ideas for lines?

[runawayjim]

TheBostonian, on Jan 24 2007, 09:50 PM, said:

No forumers have made maps with ideas for lines?

i think cotuit had made one quite some time ago, posted in another thread...

[Cotuit]

[dgreco]

Cotuit, on Jan 24 2007, 10:28 PM, said:

I think that would be fairly effecient, especially if you go down to TFGREEN and the malls, but I think there should be some sort of line west of PP.

[smcbride11]

runawayjim, on Jan 20 2007, 04:06 PM, said:

the way the program should work is that you have to show a signed lease to get a permit.

That's the way the pilot works...  Your car either has to be registered at a valid address or you need to show a valid lease (if your car is registered at another location, like a student's would be).

I'd be amazed if even 100 people signed up for the pilot, though...  I finally broke down and got my permit about a month ago and it's #58...  whether that corresponds to actual people or not I don't know, but I suspect it does.  The problem with the pilot is that Washington Park isn't dense enough to really require street parking - the upside, of course, being that since Wash Park is one of the more diverse neighborhoods in the city, it provides a better cross-section of how people will use on-street parking (I suppose - I personally don't think it was the best neighborhood for the pilot, but it is what it is).

At $25 a sticker, though, I'd think the city would be "wasting" a ton of revenue by not allowing on-street permitted parking city-wide once the Wash Park pilot is over.

Edited by smcbride11, 25 January 2007 - 12:19 AM.