40 replies to this topic

[kayman]

I think it is way past time for us to have an open discussion on the major crime problems in Birmingham.  What can we do to fix this esclating problems associated with it?  Should there be a change in police leadership?  How should these solutions should be executed?

[convulso]

for starters, people could STFU about crime in bham and get out and partcipate in civic life there without fear. i've been doing it for years and i actually, you know, TALK to people who're supposed to be feared by out-of-towners. people on the street, homeless sketchbombs, etc., in various parts of town - yes, even north and west of town. get over it. nothing changes unless you're willing to put yourself amongst the stuff that supposedly needs changing.  crime in bham is overrated, with or without stats in hand, and talking about it is really gonna help. i'm done talking on this thread.

[zen509]

Quote

for starters, people could STFU about crime in bham and get out and partcipate in civic life there without fear. i've been doing it for years and i actually, you know, TALK to people who're supposed to be feared by out-of-towners. people on the street, homeless sketchbombs, etc., in various parts of town - yes, even north and west of town. get over it. nothing changes unless you're willing to put yourself amongst the stuff that supposedly needs changing. crime in bham is overrated, with or without stats in hand, and talking about it is really gonna help. i'm done talking on this thread.


Ok. I'm not sure how you can justify your comment about crime in Birmingham being overrated. True, Birmingham is not the war zone some suburbanites perceive it to be but the crime problem in Birmingham is what it is. Last year there were 109 homicides in Birmingham. As for other violent crimes, through Nov. of last year there were: 1,313 aggravated assaults, 1,307 robberies and 211 rapes. The violent crime rate rose 5.8% in 2005 and I'm sure it rose again in 06. The police chief and the mayor like to boast about the, "overall 1% decrease in crime" and while that may be true, it's the rise in violent crime that is indicative of a decaying city. As for telling people to "STFU" and quit talking about the problem and start doing something about it, well what people should be doing, IMHO, is marching on city hall and demanding that something be done, a la New Orleans. For two years people have had to listen to the mayor dismiss the problem with comments like, "well violent crime is up all over the country" and "because so many of the homicides committed are a result of domestic disputes, there's not much that can be done". It's sickening. I'm not a criminologist so I do not have the answers, however, I do have some opinions on what the city should do. I think the city needs to enlist the help of criminologists (college professors) to research and evaluate what other cities that saw a sharp increase in violent crime did to combat their problem. Once an effective strategy is found, the city needs to implement the strategy (this should be obvious, but the city of Birmingham is notorious for conducting studies and never utilizing the results). Secondly, I believe the city needs to raise the pay of Police Officers. The City of Birmingham is the largest city in the state and they should be focused on recruiting and retaining the most qualified officers. Right now, the police department is undermanned and they are going to continue to lose officers to the suburbs until they can offer a competitive salary. Let's face it, who wants to work in that environment for that pay when they can go to Hoover and deal with a lot less for $10,000 more a year. I also think that the officers should be adequately equipped. I think it was a couple of years ago that the department wanted their officers to have tasers and the mayor shot it down. Why? Anyone who works in that environment should be equipped with whatever safety equipment they need. Frankly, I believe the time for this discussion is long overdue.

[kayman]

I like your ideas.  Here's my opinion, from what I see is the lack of a decent salary and proper equipment in addition to poor leadership at the top is what is harming BPD.  Kincaid is not helping the problem because he doesn't support a pay raise or giving proper.  Honestly, we need more progressive, proactive mayor and a better police chief who does something other than say, "We need to pray for the city."

[Blazer85]

Here's a bit of good news and somewhat related.  Apparently tomorrow, the 3rd Avenue North homeless shelter (Jimmie Hale Mission) is closing its doors and moving to another facility a bit further out of the downtown core.  I know this is not the major crime concern in Birmingham, but it should help the perception of downtown if we can get a few more of the homeless folks out of the downtown core.

[kayman]

Well, I know for a fact this BS that City Hall is pulling with an 18-month study on crime while wasting $50k.  There was already a similar study done back in the 1990's that BPD did to reduce the crime rate in the city.  I just wish they would actually become more proactive and stop twittling their thumbs on this major problem.  Birmingham is slowing dying a painful death because of idiots.  

[kayman]

Some positive to note, it seems that overall city homocide rate and other violent crimes for 2007 is down compared to this time last year.  More of this information should be published in The News.

[Blazer85]

Homicides have dropped 36% this year (so far) as compared to last year.  Burglaries and aggravated assaults are both also down in the city.

[convulso]

sometimes you can detect causes and trends in crime stats, and sometimes you can't. 36 per cent is pretty dramatic. anyone wanna take a stab (hur, hur) at why?

i still don't understand how people who don't spend time in bham assume that it's a DMZ. i never feel unsafe - at any hour - downtown, around UAB, on southside, highland, glen iris, green springs, valley...i fail to see how people can perceive any of these areas as unsafe. the area north of titusville, along with the carraway-tarrant area - well, i can see how those could cause concern. i don't spend much time in those areas, but i do understand how outsiders could feel unsafe in those parts of town - but ONLY if it's midnight on saturday and thugg club traffic is jamming the road, and you're at a traffic standstill, surrounded by a mini-freaknik environment where the guys have to accost everyone who makes eye contact with them and the girls encourage it. that really can be hairy, especially if you aren't expecting it. but a lot of it - most of it - is just the same empty bravado that you've seen in the non-thugg hormonal morons you grew up around and aren't scared of. any other time of day, even those areas shouldn't be terribly intimidating for most people.

my guess about the drop in violent crime is that last year was something of an abberration and this year is more in keeping with the previous years' trends. but maybe it's the other way around; depends on how benevolent your view of human nature is, i guess.

Edited by convulso, 02 May 2007 - 11:21 AM.

[kayman]

I must agree, the drop in overall violent crime rate could be likely just shear luck.  We all know Kincaid and Nunn has done nothing of sort in proactive measures to stop the crime here in the city.  

It also may be a sign that the good economic health of the city is finally trickling down to the more economic depressed areas like West End, Central City, Roosevelt City, Pratt City, and Ensley.  We wouldn't know for sure that this is a real good sign for the year until the end of summer (the most crime-prone time of year due to lack of activities).

[Blazer85]

^ I agree.  There's also some evidence that hot weather makes people more moody and more prone to commit crimes during the summer months.  We seem to have gotten an early summer start (in terms of weather) this year.  Crime is down and hopefully it will remain that way.  I agree, however, that neither the police chief nor the mayor have anything to do with this.  There are enough negatives that people want to harp on about Birmingham.  

Let's hope crime remains low, not for any reason to make the mayor or police chief look better, but to help improve the image of Birmingham.  These days, with all the different polls on crime and pollution, Birmingham's name gets out there on some pretty unappealing lists.  We all know that downtown crime is among the lowest in the region, but most people reading these crime polls and such do NOT know this.

[kayman]

convulso, on May 2 2007, 12:16 PM, said:

sometimes you can detect causes and trends in crime stats, and sometimes you can't. 36 per cent is pretty dramatic. anyone wanna take a stab (hur, hur) at why?

i still don't understand how people who don't spend time in bham assume that it's a DMZ. i never feel unsafe - at any hour - downtown, around UAB, on southside, highland, glen iris, green springs, valley...i fail to see how people can perceive any of these areas as unsafe. the area north of titusville, along with the carraway-tarrant area - well, i can see how those could cause concern. i don't spend much time in those areas, but i do understand how outsiders could feel unsafe in those parts of town - but ONLY if it's midnight on saturday and thugg club traffic is jamming the road, and you're at a traffic standstill, surrounded by a mini-freaknik environment where the guys have to accost everyone who makes eye contact with them and the girls encourage it. that really can be hairy, especially if you aren't expecting it. but a lot of it - most of it - is just the same empty bravado that you've seen in the non-thugg hormonal morons you grew up around and aren't scared of. any other time of day, even those areas shouldn't be terribly intimidating for most people.

my guess about the drop in violent crime is that last year was something of an abberration and this year is more in keeping with the previous years' trends. but maybe it's the other way around; depends on how benevolent your view of human nature is, i guess.

Although, I do agree with you on your general idea, but I've been through Norwood numerous times after dark and I didn't get that feeling at all.  But "thug club traffic" I would hardly call the clubgoers of Platinum of Birmingham and other clubs thugs.  Yeah, I've seen it first hand some of the people are rowdy some of the time, but most weekends around there it is generally calm outside of those clubs.  Now Mike's Crossroads is another story.

Hell, I felt more unsafe in Mountain Brook after dark than Norwood, and that says something about Mountain Brook.

[woob]

the police started walking the streets here more and crime has dropped big time.. and I also think that downtown birmingham needs to demolish some of its older abandoned buildings.. that happened in shreveport and now downtown is a very safe place to be.. for the most part I can walk anywhere carrying my 800 dollar camera with very little worry...

[kayman]

woob, on May 5 2007, 02:05 PM, said:

the police started walking the streets here more and crime has dropped big time.. and I also think that downtown birmingham needs to demolish some of its older abandoned buildings.. that happened in shreveport and now downtown is a very safe place to be.. for the most part I can walk anywhere carrying my 800 dollar camera with very little worry...

Downtown is the safest area in the metro area with 2 law enforcement agencies, C.A.P.S. and Birmingham PD, patrolling the area.  What does abolishing abandoned downtown buildings have to do with safety?  If anything that will hurt the strides and further efforts Birmingham has made revitalizing its very unique downtown area.

[woob]

Leonard23, on May 5 2007, 01:44 PM, said:

Downtown is the safest area in the metro area with 2 law enforcement agencies, C.A.P.S. and Birmingham PD, patrolling the area.  What does abolishing abandoned downtown buildings have to do with safety?  If anything that will hurt the strides and further efforts Birmingham has made revitalizing its very unique downtown area.

I think having an open downtown... not with ambush spots makes for a safer downtown..if downtown is the safest place in the bham metro area.. then count me out moving over there.. I've taken trips with my father in law through downtown.. he's an electrician... everyone I talk to over there tells me not to ever go downtown by myself.. you're actually saying that crime is lower in Birmingham than in areas like hoover or gardendale?

Edited by woob, 05 May 2007 - 03:36 PM.

[kayman]

woob, on May 5 2007, 04:25 PM, said:

I think having an open downtown... not with ambush spots makes for a safer downtown..

Have you ever ventured through most of downtown before?  I ask this because if you have you would know that there are hardly any abandoned buildings that are in the downtown nowadays.  The ones that are left are far from the main areas, so unless you are roaming around looking for something then you aren't likely to find it here.

[woob]

Leonard23, on May 5 2007, 03:32 PM, said:

Have you ever ventured through most of downtown before?  I ask this because if you have you would know that there are hardly any abandoned buildings that are in the downtown nowadays.  The ones that are left are far from the main areas, so unless you are roaming around looking for something then you aren't likely to find it here.

ive been through near the UAB campus looking for scrubs for my sister in law and saw lots of buildings falling apart with busted windows in them?

http://money.aol.com...erous-cities-06

if you blame the heat on crime you do have problems.. the heat doesn't commit the crimes people do...

Edited by woob, 05 May 2007 - 03:57 PM.

[kayman]

woob, on May 5 2007, 04:38 PM, said:

ive been through near the UAB campus looking for scrubs for my sister in law and saw lots of buildings falling apart with busted windows in them?

http://money.aol.com...erous-cities-06

if you blame the heat on crime you do have problems.. the heat doesn't commit the crimes people do...

If you read my post you would know that I didn't blame the crime on heat, but rather the lack of constructive activities.  (Proof)  Statistics talk about the city as a whole, not the individual precincts of the city.  If you want to know that how each precinct faired then read this story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18437108/

Woob, you are making the same generalizations as anyone who isn't familiar with the overall City Center would make.   If you are going debate about how safe the Downtown is then come with some more substantial than you seeing broken out windows near UAB.  This is because in generally speaking most folks here don't consider UAB a part of Downtown/Northside, but rather Southside or Midtown.  Like I said before, if you have been to Downtown recently you would know that there are hardly any "abandoned buildings" nearby.    

If you want to know more about what is really going on in the City Center then I would advise you to go to Operation New Birmingham's website: http://www.yourcitycenter.com/  They even leave a phone number for you to call to find the latest crime stats for the City Center also.  

They will tell you all about how many and where all the abandoned buildings are and also "How safe Downtown Birmingham is?".

[Blazer85]

Woob, you are absolutely incorrect.  Downtown (the central business district, midtown, and southside) IS the 2nd safest place in metro Birmingham.  Violent crime is EXTREMELY rare in the downtown area.  Other areas of Birmingham, like Ensley, Gate City, West End, etc. are EXTREMELY violent and thereby raise the overall crime rate of the city as a whole.  Downtown, however, is by itself very safe and indeed safer than Hoover or Gardendale in many respects.  This is not just speculation... it has been proven by FBI crime statistics that break crime down into regions of a city rather than just the city as a whole.

[convulso]

they've got you here, woob. the stats are there. but it's not just stats, imho, it's a feeling of safety - at least for those who aren't frightened that they're in the big city in the first place.

i parked on the arrington overpass (where it crosses the railroad and morris avenue) at about 3 a.m. last thursday and walked around with a camera and a tripod and took about 200 pictures, mostly of the area between morris - 3rd ave. north / 19th street - 22nd. i walked around for about three hours - the sun was up when i got back in my car. i forgot i had left my sunroof open with a $3,500 computer lying in plain view in the front seat, but it was there when i got back (i don't think that's evidence of anything; i wouldn't normally do that, no matter where i was. still, it made me feel good that people had been walking on the bridge past my car all morning, yet no one had disturbed my crap.)

i passed some solitary people just milling around; one guy asked me for a cigarette. at about 4:30, the YMCA in the area started coming alive; tons of people - both white and black people, but mostly black - started walking around the streets the way most suburbanites walk at the local walking trail (i forget the intersection where the YMCA is there), people were waiting (and waiting) for the bus, and almost everyone who passed me said hello and smiled. race, purpose, whatever - made no difference. these people did not feel unsafe to get out a full hour before the first hint of daylight and walk the streets of downtown birmingham. i imagine many of them had more to lose, money-wise, than i ever will.

anecdotes are anecdotes. i don't pretend that that experience is some kind of proof of how safe this area is - i'm just trying to convey my feeling that the place feels safe (to me); that the feeling reflects the numbers. this was by no means the first or even twentieth time that i've done something like this in downtown (or around UAB or southside / highland) over the years.

i do think it it's a valid question whether part of the statistical safety of DT owes something to its relative desertion at night - there's nearly nobody there, victim or criminal. perhaps if there were more traffic at dark, there would be more crime. that doesn't seem to be a huge issue in areas of town that do see heavy evening traffic (southside) - even if those areas do have some more crime than DT, it's not epidemic.


p.s. - i mention the white - black thing above because white outsiders are inevitably going to make the ole assumption that any black person in bham after dark is a cue for them to cross the street, lock their doors, etc. why? hell, i don't know. i just have heard it so many damn times in the towns all around the metro that i just want to nip any mention of it in the ass. all i know is that black 'street' people i encounter (yeah, i'm not black) in bham have NEVER menaced me or been more of a nuisance in any way than the (somewhat fewer) white 'street' types. they all might ask you for something, but if you wanna say 'hell no,' as i often do, they are typically cool with you. no one in bham proper has ever made me feel that i was going to have to clinch a fist or grab for my knife. not so in montgomery or memphis, in my experience.

plus, my philosophy is that it doesn't hurt to stop and actually talk to some of the street people of whatever colorful hue, since often they are just as happy to have another person take interest in their stories as they are to be given gin money. i don't care if i know they're trying to hustle me - they often forget the hustle if you just stop and talk to them and ask them some questions about their lives and experiences. people might actually learn something from a lot of them - they know a lot more than most people about how to live a survivor's life, and - perhaps in a somewhat unhealthy way - i respect that.

oh, and if i can photoshop all these pics, i'll post them somewhere. some of them are pretty cool, considering their source.