274 replies to this topic

[jencoleslaw]

quente, on Feb 3 2007, 06:42 PM, said:

Ironic that someone who is trained to uphold the law has no problem violating it in such a blatant, self-serving manner. ~sigh~

I'm not sure I follow the eminent domain rationale - please explain the basis for that? Simply as a form of punishment or would there be some sort of public purpose served?

i think the reason ed hasn't been exercised was because we would need to come up with fair market value for the property, then the city could issue an RFP for redevelopment that MAKES SENSE. Now, however, with a big fat chunk of the building crumbled on the ground, its fair market value has fallen (no pun intended) considerably.

Now maybe the city can afford to pay fair market value for the property, and get it redeveloped. it is CLEAR that the owner of this property only wants it for parking, which is not an acceptable use to the neighbors or the city (at least i've been told that).

Over the years, there have been many interested buyers, many brokers who have tried to talk the owners into redeveloping it in very creative ways that would have kept the building, and allowed lots and lots of parking for the owners without the owners having to pay anything towards the redevelopment. But everyone has been turned away because the owners don't give a sh(t about the neighborhood, or the law,   and now, just days after the owner swore there was no such demo in the works, and that they were tired of being slandered and accused of doing things they never intended to do, an illegal demo on a Saturday morning.  

And i sure hope come monday we don't hear that the building has been condemned by the city, because if that happens i think i will have lost any and all hope of ever having faith in this city again. That will be the nail in my, and i suspect many other's, coffin in regards to investing in Providence's neighborhoods. Are we the people (double income, no kids, homeowners and long term tenants, work/live in the city, serve on neighborhood boards etc) that the city can afford to piss off?

Folks wonder why all the neighborhood groups are so vocal and untrusting of developers, the zoning process, the CPC, etc. This is exactly the reason.  This building was swaddled in protection and promises that no harm would come to it. Now almost a third of it has been ripped away.

I'm also interested if this demo violated any environmental laws. That building was full of asbestos, which is one of the reasons why it ceased to be a school.

[jencoleslaw]

here was my horoscope for today, which i just looked at.

Quickie: Be open to last-minute rescheduling -- you will not be disappointed.
Overview: A delightfully stimulating opportunity pops up when you least expect it, but you have to be willing to take advantage of it when it appears. Those extra-sharp critical faculties of yours will help you spot it.

[basachs]

Just drove by it now and the police are there. Honestly, the owners should pay for that expense.

Yes the WBNA board was on our retreat and were ironically in front of the West Broadway Elementary School talking about what we could do to save it when we learned that the demo at Grove Street School was going on. We raced over there, but by then they were already starting it.

What was very frustrating was that we told the "foreman" that there was a stop work order and they told us that they would stop, and just had to lower the equipment. Instead, they kept ripping it down. This went on for about 5 mintues before the cops showed up.

The mayor and building inspector were there within the hour, they were not at all pleased. Mayor talked with all of the people there and the media.

Should have seen the looks on these demo guys faces all smiles and laughter as we were standing there. They truly enjoy their work and dont give a crap.

I saw Jen on the news, and Jen you made sense! They edited you properly...

Edited by basachs, 03 February 2007 - 08:42 PM.

[bloodyrocker]

oh man...

I used to live across the street from that building.  All the neighbors had that place on suicide watch for the last few years. I can't believe the scumbag owners had the balls to do this.

Of course its on a Saturday morning,  thats when they all do the dirty work.

I just got home and was watching the news when they mentioned a historic building in Providence being torn down illegally i KNEW it was Grove street.  Jen you were awesome on tv!   Cicilline seemed pissed off as well.

[LMWW]

Being a member of the immediate neighborhood, I have to admit to being a bit perplexed. They want to build a parking lot for....what? As far as I can tell, most of our neighbors have driveway parking. And its not like we have a particularly happenin' nightlife in our several-block radius.

This is maddening.

[Cotuit]

If the owner is a lawyer, can he be disbarred for such flagrant direct violation of the law?

[jencoleslaw]

LMWW, on Feb 3 2007, 11:47 PM, said:

Being a member of the immediate neighborhood, I have to admit to being a bit perplexed. They want to build a parking lot for....what? As far as I can tell, most of our neighbors have driveway parking. And its not like we have a particularly happenin' nightlife in our several-block radius.

This is maddening.

the owners are also the owners of a funeral home on broadway and have been steadily buying up property behind broadway, on grove street and tearing down houses to build acres of parking stretching from Broadway to the back of Ring Street.  What is weird was that i was assured by someone high up in city government that the funeral home would not get a variance to increase its size on broadway because, so what do they need all this parking for? At a meeting of the neighbors at which the funeral home people came (but didn't identify themselves until they were called out by someone who knew them) they were asked how other urban funeral homes deal with the dearth of parking (ie., on the street, shared parking with the Italo American Club who also tore down housing when it was also a funeral home etc) and they refused to be flexible at all. When asked if tearing down the school, and turning into giant parking lot would fulfil their "need" for parking, they admitted it would not, and they would need more.  

more and more i am feeling this is like a test of wills, old style Providence vs new style providence and has now just become a pissing match with the neighbors. does the entire length of grove street between Courtland and Tobey have to become parking for a funeral home before they are satisfied?

I went to a funeral in Bristol two weekends ago. No parking lot, all on street parking at both the funeral home and the church.  Not a problem.  Broadway has nice wide streets, there are plenty of side streets with parking on them, there is a gigantic parking lot less than a block away that is almost never used--why did the grove street school owners have to be so rigid and not even consider some of the options that would have served everyone's best interest, including theirs, financially?!  Which brings me to my question above--maybe its not about parking at all, but a way of reminding those of us who actually care about the quality of life in our neighborhoods that we "newcomers" mean nothing, and that the old standby of doing what you want for no or little reason, still is the preferred method of doing business. Very disappointing.

The neighborhood was assured just last week, by the police, that they would remain ever vigilent on this property.  More differences in idealogy i guess.

Edited by jencoleslaw, 04 February 2007 - 04:24 AM.

[quente]

Cotuit, on Feb 4 2007, 12:53 AM, said:

If the owner is a lawyer, can he be disbarred for such flagrant direct violation of the law?

Not being an attorney, my guess is disbarment would be not be a viable option because of the nature of the offense - demoing his property without a permit probably isn't directly related to his professional work. As such, there probably is no basis for disbarment.

Having said that, though, I am wondering if the Disciplinary Board of the State Supreme Court might be an option on something like this - here's a link: RI Disciplinary Board.

[brick]

quente, on Feb 4 2007, 08:42 AM, said:

Not being an attorney, my guess is disbarment would be not be a viable option because of the nature of the offense - demoing his property without a permit probably isn't directly related to his professional work. As such, there probably is no basis for disbarment.

Having said that, though, I am wondering if the Disciplinary Board of the State Supreme Court might be an option on something like this - here's a link: RI Disciplinary Board.

Disbarring is pretty difficult.  I mean if NC isn't going to immediately disbar Mike Nifong for a blatant violation of defendent rights and court procedure, I can't see RI deciding that ignoring a stop work order is enough.

[LMWW]

jencoleslaw, on Feb 4 2007, 05:20 AM, said:

Which brings me to my question above--maybe its not about parking at all, but a way of reminding those of us who actually care about the quality of life in our neighborhoods that we "newcomers" mean nothing, and that the old standby of doing what you want for no or little reason, still is the preferred method of doing business. Very disappointing.

I know which funeral home you're talking about. And based on the information you provided, I have to agree with the above statement for 2 reasons: 1) The cost of the funeral is in no way dependent upon the number of people who attend. 2) When there is a funeral at that funeral home, they put out little yellow cones all along both sides of Broadway for several blocks, reserving the street parking. That, with the existing parking lot, should be plenty.

[jencoleslaw]

Here's what it looks like today. When we went by this morning after breakfast, the contractors were smokin' and jokin with the police officer stationed there. maybe they came to visit their front loader.  i don't think we can get him disbarred either. But maybe he should  not work in the city's law department at all.

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[Cotuit]

[brick]

jencoleslaw, on Feb 4 2007, 11:32 AM, said:

Here's what it looks like today. When we went by this morning after breakfast, the contractors were smokin' and jokin with the police officer stationed there. maybe they came to visit their front loader.  i don't think we can get him disbarred either. But maybe he should  not work in the city's law department at all.

that's a backhoe, not a front end loader.

How about you distract the contractors and I steal the backhoe?  I could use one.  Of course, it doesn't make a very good getaway car.

[bloodyrocker]

jencoleslaw, on Feb 4 2007, 11:32 AM, said:

Here's what it looks like today. When we went by this morning after breakfast, the contractors were smokin' and jokin with the police officer stationed there. maybe they came to visit their front loader.  i don't think we can get him disbarred either. But maybe he should  not work in the city's law department at all.

as.sholes.  all of em

[eltron]

Its the same old same old in Little Rhody.

Here is a really, REALLY easy partial fix - take the Contractor's License away from the Demo Contractor. This case is flagrant disregard for permits and stop work orders, and they should immediately be barred from legally doing construction work. Won't do much, but the contractor is just about as responsible as the owner in this case.

it is encouraging that Mayor Cicilline seems to be stepping in, at least - that could keep things from getting worse.

[Liamlunchtray]

eltron, on Feb 5 2007, 10:12 AM, said:

Its the same old same old in Little Rhody.

Here is a really, REALLY easy partial fix - take the Contractor's License away from the Demo Contractor. This case is flagrant disregard for permits and stop work orders, and they should immediately be barred from legally doing construction work. Won't do much, but the contractor is just about as responsible as the owner in this case.

it is encouraging that Mayor Cicilline seems to be stepping in, at least - that could keep things from getting worse.

That would indeed be a great deterrent. Obviously fines have little to no impact as they are never enough to really make a difference. However, if a Contractor were to lose their license for 3 or 6 months, that would could be a much bigger impact. At the least it would make it harder to get somone in to do the demo.

My wife was thinking that maybe this would be a good opportunity to have an "I AM PROVIDENCE" (to steal a play from Ted Rao) rally protesting this type of behavior that has negative consequences on our neighborhoods without any reprecussions to the businesses involved. This kind of bullsh1t has to stop. There needs to be SERIOUS penalties for this type of behavior.

[Cotuit]

Liamlunchtray, on Feb 5 2007, 11:15 AM, said:

My wife was thinking that maybe this would be a good opportunity to have an "I AM PROVIDENCE" (to steal a play from Ted Rao) rally protesting this type of behavior that has negative consequences on our neighborhoods without any reprecussions to the businesses involved. This kind of bullsh1t has to stop. There needs to be SERIOUS penalties for this type of behavior.

I'd be all for protesting the business if it weren't a funeral home. I don't really like the idea of compounding innocent people's grief. But there should be a way to have some sort of action without impacting grieving families.

[quente]

Agreed - ya gotta hit'em in the wallet.

How about this:

1. Surface parking lots, vacant lots and unoccupied buildings should be assessed at the highest tax rate. That might provide an incentive for development, no?
2. Suspension of contractor's license for several months plus a fine that is some percentage of the property assessment being demoed or a percentage of what they're being paid for the demolition.

Both parties, the owner and the contractor, need to be held accountable.

[jencoleslaw]

i hope you guys are all calling the mayor's office with your suggestions!  I suspect this is being dealt with right now...

[basachs]

quente, on Feb 5 2007, 11:28 AM, said:

Agreed - ya gotta hit'em in the wallet.

How about this:

1. Surface parking lots, vacant lots and unoccupied buildings should be assessed at the highest tax rate. That might provide an incentive for development, no?
2. Suspension of contractor's license for several months plus a fine that is some percentage of the property assessment being demoed or a percentage of what they're being paid for the demolition.

Both parties, the owner and the contractor, need to be held accountable.

These are great ideas, and were discussed by many of the people there on saturday (not sure if you were one of them).

I would also like to see the arrest of people that do this sort of thing. Both the demo crew and the owners that hired them. Being led away in handcuffs would have sent a much better message than the laughing and handshaking that went on between the police and the contractors on Saturday.

This offense should also carry prison time in addition to the fines, license suspension and taxes.