1188 replies to this topic

[info2]

LIT uPP, on Mar 12 2007, 08:02 PM, said:

This weekend, RED Development moved its link for the Promenade at Chenal from “Projects Under Development” to “Projects Under Construction.”  The project website, itself, is the same one that appeared in the previous category, but this transition is another sign that RED is moving forward with the Promenade.  In the coming months, they should at least be adding a link for tenants; maybe even some aerial views, as they have done with other projects under construction.  At least one of the other projects has its own specially-designed website.  They still plan to open in the spring of 2008.

If you read Arkansas Business news today, this project will be left with
no tenants based on the list(s) of players in Schakelford Crossing and
Pleasant Ridge......finito/nada. Why not just stop now.

[Aporkalypse]

info2, on Mar 14 2007, 09:50 AM, said:

If you read Arkansas Business news today, this project will be left with
no tenants based on the list(s) of players in Schakelford Crossing and
Pleasant Ridge......finito/nada. Why not just stop now.

What are you talking about?

Shackleford Crossing and Promenade aren't competing for the same tenants.  Clary signed on big box, middle income stores that would be entirely out of place in Chenal.  Pleasant Ridge and Promenade probably were competing and PRTC ended up being bailed on by most of the national retailers it wanted.  I heard rumors (and architect actually saw the leasing diagram) which included a number of upscale tenants that clearly changed their mind and opted to go elsewhere.  Right after that happened, Deltic and RED closed the sale of the land and it was cleared very quickly.  I'm not positive Promenade signed on all of the tenants that dissed PRTC, we'll have to wait and see.  Boy, the timing sure suggests that.

[jcaruth]

info2, on Mar 14 2007, 09:50 AM, said:

If you read Arkansas Business news today, this project will be left with
no tenants based on the list(s) of players in Schakelford Crossing and
Pleasant Ridge......finito/nada. Why not just stop now.

hmmm Im not seeing this at all.  What tenants have these two centers stole from the Promenade??? There are plenty of speculative tenants to go in there that will not be locating at either of these shopping centers.

[LRU1967]

info2, on Mar 14 2007, 08:50 AM, said:

If you read Arkansas Business news today, this project will be left with
no tenants based on the list(s) of players in Schakelford Crossing and
Pleasant Ridge......finito/nada. Why not just stop now.

Here are few businesses that likely wouldn't even consider Shackleford Crossing but would fit in well at Midtowne, Pleasant Ridge or Promenade:

Apple Store,  Brooks Brothers,  Johnston & Murphy,  Crate & Barrel

[EJC]

LRU1967, on Mar 14 2007, 10:01 AM, said:

Here are few businesses that likely wouldn't even consider Shackleford Crossing but would fit in well at Midtowne, Pleasant Ridge or Promenade:

Apple Store,  Brooks Brothers,  Johnston & Murphy,  Crate & Barrel

That, and plenty more.  As others have noted, Shackelford Crossing isn't a competing site, they serve different market segments.  Someone posting on this board has an "agenda"...

[Aporkalypse]

EJC, on Mar 14 2007, 11:23 AM, said:

That, and plenty more.  As others have noted, Shackelford Crossing isn't a competing site, they serve different market segments.  Someone posting on this board has an "agenda"...

Is info2 Lou Shickel?

[jcaruth]

Aporkalypse, on Mar 14 2007, 11:24 AM, said:

Is info2 Lou Shickel?

after reading his previous post, there is a definite agenda towards RED

[info2]

jcaruth, on Mar 14 2007, 01:36 PM, said:

after reading his previous post, there is a definite agenda towards RED

First, I'm not a he, and second I'm not lou s.
I'm just a concerned citizen that has done "some" research on this development and
had an opinion. It was based on information from friends in KC. I guess if you don't
follow the hype, you are an outcast. Very simplistically,............ if you try to calculate
how many tenants would be in 400K SF @ Promenade, I ( just me apparently) don't see how there's 40-75 other tenants out there.
If I'm wrong, so be it. The fact remains that that was a beautiful piece of tree canopy/ I will post no more .

[Aporkalypse]

info2, on Mar 14 2007, 03:34 PM, said:

First, I'm not a he, and second I'm not lou s.
I'm just a concerned citizen that has done "some" research on this development and
had an opinion. It was based on information from friends in KC. I guess if you don't
follow the hype, you are an outcast. Very simplistically,............ if you try to calculate
how many tenants would be in 400K SF @ Promenade, I ( just me apparently) don't see how there's 40-75 other tenants out there.
If I'm wrong, so be it. The fact remains that that was a beautiful piece of tree canopy/ I will post no more .

1.  It wasn't tree canopy, there were no hardwoods and it was regularly cut and therefore was unable to develop a canopy. This was planted timberland, the natural mix of deciduous and evergreens in Arkansas hills was replaced by trees used in lumber and paper production on that piece of land.  You see the same thing in the loggable parts of Chenal, though notably not on the steep parts such as Shinall Mtn where you have beautiful autumns.

I actually I find this MUCH less ecologically bothersome than the deforestation and destruction of hillsides that occurred at Shackleford Crossing and Pleasant Ridge.  Not to mention the strip mall-ization of Hwy 10.

2.  You don't have to calculate the number of tenants and it's not 75. The development is 340k SF. There's a lease plan on their website that's been published for a very long time.  In fact, I think it was in Ark Business at one point.  The plan was revised in Aug 2006 to exclude Dillard's.

Promenade at Chenal Site Plan

3.  I kept an open mind but I asked you previously to elaborate on your claims and you haven't.  Were you a regular poster here with some inside knowledge like architect, theman, or turboturtle I would seriously listen, I just find it interesting that you really haven't posted outside of this thread.

Most of us here don't "follow the hype".  Frankly we tend to be more pro-Midtown development are a little surprised this development ever happened.  None of us are convinced the location is ready for this kind of thing yet, it's a bit too far off the beaten path.  Read back through some of the older posts about this and you'll see what I mean.

So here's your chance, spill the beans.  Let's hear about why RED is going to develop this without tenants and how we'll get the raw deal on that.  What's the scoop?

[EJC]

info2, on Mar 14 2007, 02:34 PM, said:

First, I'm not a he, and second I'm not lou s.
I'm just a concerned citizen that has done "some" research on this development and
had an opinion. It was based on information from friends in KC. I guess if you don't
follow the hype, you are an outcast. Very simplistically,............ if you try to calculate
how many tenants would be in 400K SF @ Promenade, I ( just me apparently) don't see how there's 40-75 other tenants out there.
If I'm wrong, so be it. The fact remains that that was a beautiful piece of tree canopy/ I will post no more .

There are plenty of tenant opportunities for a development of this size.  Frankly, this development isn't that large compared to many other proposals.  I don't think anyone minds others with opinions, but your opinions bordered on statement of fact rather than opinion.  Could this development fail?  Sure, as could any of these projects, but the opportunity is ripe as well.  As for the wooded area, all I can say is that this was in the plans for a long time, so something was going to happen there, and fortunately, Deltic has at least made SOME effort to keep wooded areas.  As noted before, when RED is done, there will be plantings (as there always are in developments of this nature).

[Aporkalypse]

EJC, on Mar 14 2007, 04:20 PM, said:

There are plenty of tenant opportunities for a development of this size.  Frankly, this development isn't that large compared to many other proposals.  I don't think anyone minds others with opinions, but your opinions bordered on statement of fact rather than opinion.  Could this development fail?  Sure, as could any of these projects, but the opportunity is ripe as well.  As for the wooded area, all I can say is that this was in the plans for a long time, so something was going to happen there, and fortunately, Deltic has at least made SOME effort to keep wooded areas.  As noted before, when RED is done, there will be plantings (as there always are in developments of this nature).

A lot of high end tenants have been holding off on the market looking for the right place to locate, no doubt.  This is especially true of restaurants where several high-end chains are looking to get into the market and keep backing off from developments.  I expect a Ruth's Chris and Cantina Laredo very soon and I bet Promenade's the spot.  If LR is every to get a Cheesecake Factory, this might be it (or it may go to whatever replaces University Mall).  If lots of traditional mall tenants - the Abercrombies, Gaps, and Crabtree and Evelyns of the world choose this as their west LR location then it would fill very fast, if a few come many will follow.  If not and it is filled mostly with local tenants it will be very slow to fill.

What do you guys make of the triangular piece of land between La Prada and Rahling that was left out of the Promenade?  Did RED purchase that piece of land from Deltic as well or does Deltic still own it?  If RED bought it it could be perfect to add another 100-150k SF if the project does well or conceivably add a dept store (Macy's or Dillard's) to the mix.  Was that land cleared as well?

[Aporkalypse]

Sitework is progressing rapidly, there were crews working this weekend burying the utilities.

[hartford]

any word on possible tenants yet?

[Aporkalypse]

There's a new sign up now and it looks different than previous drawings, though every bit as nice.  The website hasn't been updated with the new drawing yet, though.

[Architect]

I heard from a friend last night, from their friend (yes, literally...so take this with a grain of salt), that the new Promenade at Chenal will contain a Coach store.  Supposedly this person had seen a recent site layout with tenant names....didn't hear what else.  I was sort of listening in...for what its worth.

[Aporkalypse]

Architect, on Apr 19 2007, 08:16 PM, said:

I heard from a friend last night, from their friend (yes, literally...so take this with a grain of salt), that the new Promenade at Chenal will contain a Coach store.  Supposedly this person had seen a recent site layout with tenant names....didn't hear what else.  I was sort of listening in...for what its worth.

Come on Architect, I expected more.

I'm still hoping that we see a lot of those stores like Apple originally listed on Pleasant Ridge's site plan out there.  Coach is a good start.

[turboturtle]

Aporkalypse, on Apr 19 2007, 09:01 PM, said:

Come on Architect, I expected more.

I'm still hoping that we see a lot of those stores like Apple originally listed on Pleasant Ridge's site plan out there.  Coach is a good start.

How long does it take to drive from the Markham and Main St to Chenal and Rahling (I think that is the location for this development)? Think visitor to LR for a convention. Yahoo maps says 20 minutes.  Seems like the bar for this development needs to be very high.  It needs something spectacular, like maybe the IMAX that shows full length movies.  Otherwise, it is going to go the route of Rodney Parham.

[EJC]

turboturtle, on Apr 19 2007, 08:43 PM, said:

How long does it take to drive from the Markham and Main St to Chenal and Rahling (I think that is the location for this development)? Think visitor to LR for a convention. Yahoo maps says 20 minutes.  Seems like the bar for this development needs to be very high.  It needs something spectacular, like maybe the IMAX that shows full length movies.  Otherwise, it is going to go the route of Rodney Parham.

No movie type pad from my understanding.

Perhaps you are correct in your assumption, but my impression isn't that places such as this need visitor convention business but rather they need local support.  This location is roughly 5 minutes from 630/430 versus 45 seconds for Midtown from 630.  I'm not sure if that will matter or not.  Lifestyle centers are destinations on their own, so the fact that it isn't surrounded by other development isn't a major factor IMO.

[turboturtle]

EJC, on Apr 20 2007, 08:32 AM, said:

No movie type pad from my understanding.

Perhaps you are correct in your assumption, but my impression isn't that places such as this need visitor convention business but rather they need local support.  This location is roughly 5 minutes from 630/430 versus 45 seconds for Midtown from 630.  I'm not sure if that will matter or not.  Lifestyle centers are destinations on their own, so the fact that it isn't surrounded by other development isn't a major factor IMO.

You might be right.  Who am I to question the willingness of a developer to invest in a particular locale?  

Personally, I like the geographic proximity of Park Plaza, Midtowne, and the University Mall (eventually) sites with Hillcrest and the Heights.  One can drive that entire triangle in less that 10 minutes; and any given leg is less than 5 minutes.  So, if I were giving directions to someone who is unfamiliar with Little Rock, and they want to shop, I'd send them to this area.  The alternative, to send them to WLR, would add another 10-15 minutes to the drive.  Then, if they want to go else where, they'll need to drive to another part of WLR, say Cantrell or Rodney Parham.  That could be another 10-15 minutes.  That time begins to add up when you consider a round trip.

Also, to your point about the need for local support.  My wife and I are local.  We get turned-off by the prospect of negotiating WLR to do much of anything these days.  I've cut way back on my trips to Sams, which is mostly reduced to buy bulk coffee beans, Silk, Frosted Mini wheats, paper towels, toilet paper and trash bags.  I used to go weekly because of the need for diapers and wipes.  It may be time to let my membership expire.  

Maybe the issue that I have is that there doesn't seem to be an anchoring site (or intersection) developing except for the Markham, Bowman, Chenal confluence.   I think this development should rival the Heights is size, scope and tenant mix to gain substantive support outside of WLR.  I'm thinking Kavanaugh from University to Cantrell.  That, to me, would be a Lifestyle center that is a destination unto itself.  Anything much less, could probably be classified as a reformulated strip mall, or strip mall on steroids.

Perhaps I am too harsh or biased or both. It is Friday, but my brain thinks it is Monday.

[Aporkalypse]

EJC, on Apr 20 2007, 08:32 AM, said:

No movie type pad from my understanding.

Perhaps you are correct in your assumption, but my impression isn't that places such as this need visitor convention business but rather they need local support.  This location is roughly 5 minutes from 630/430 versus 45 seconds for Midtown from 630.  I'm not sure if that will matter or not.  Lifestyle centers are destinations on their own, so the fact that it isn't surrounded by other development isn't a major factor IMO.

I'm used to DFW and you see similar-sized centers, some even quite a bit larger, peppered around, some on major highways but some off the beaten path in newer, affluent areas.  I think of this as the type of development that instead of being designed to become a regional mall like Park Plaza is designed to become a local shopping center in an affluent area of town, similar to (but smaller than) Southlake Town Square in far suburban DFW.  That shopping center (billed initially as a lifestyle center but really as large as I've seen one) has things like a Cheesecake Factory, Pottery Barn, Williams-Sonoma, etc, etc.  It's not something anyone would drive from Dallas or Ft Worth to go to, more of something that serves the area.

You figure West LR and West Pulaski probably have a population of 100,000 people or so that would use the shopping center, most with rather high incomes.  That's what this shopping center is targeting, not the entire region as Shackleford Crossing and potentially Gateway or the new shopping center at Col Glenn would.

Now that may very well make it a "strip mall on steroids".  

There's no movie theatre pad as has been stated.  With the Rave and Breckenridge so close I'm not sure there will be a theatre that far West anytime soon.  However, we do know that there is a theatre with an IMAX planned for somewhere in Little Rock.  I was assuming that was nearer Midtown, which needs a theater more.