148 replies to this topic

[cltheel.sdl]

Somehow I find it unlikely that he will draw high-end retailers, like ones on the level of SP.  I mean, SP just got those retailers, and I don't think the Charlotte metro is big enough yet to support double of what they have at SP.

[Miesian Corners]

I look forward to finding out what the developer's idea of "high end" is.  Good or bad, SouthPark retailers are located in SP for a very big reason:  each other.  Upper end retailers cluster together because of the synergies of being in one location.  It's also worth noting that Simon has relationships with them all.  Charlotte is not a large enough market for more than one Tiffany, St John, Burberry, NM, Nordstrom, Bob Ellis, Cole Haan, Ralph Lauren, etc.  While this project, if it ever gets off the ground, might attract mid-scale retailers, it is doubtful that a second "branch" of any of the stores currently in SouthPark will locate there.

It's also worth noting that the largest shopping center Bromont currently owns/manages is a 244,000 square foot center in Irving, TX.  Anchors are Best Buy, Ross, PetSmart and Mardell's.  It will be interesting to see how they develop relationships with "high-end" retailers and bring them to the region.

[monsoon]

cantnot, on Feb 15 2007, 03:40 PM, said:

well this might be the first true competition to rival southpark

I agree this may be the case.  Southpark is very difficult to get to and this place won't have as much of a problem being located right of I-77.  If the activity at Birkdale Village is any indication, this place is going to be packed with people.

[monsoon]

Miesian Corners, on Feb 15 2007, 04:23 PM, said:

It's also worth noting that the largest shopping center Bromont currently owns/manages is a 244,000 square foot center in Irving, TX.  Anchors are Best Buy, Ross, PetSmart and Mardell's.  It will be interesting to see how they develop relationships with "high-end" retailers and bring them to the region.

According to the newspaper article, Bromard is in it for its expertise in building and managing a project as big as this.  This was mentioned above in the summary I just posted.  The retailers you mention are just down at North Cross (exit 25) so it's unlikely they are going after this bunch.

[Miesian Corners]

Just got off the phone with a friend in Davidson town gov't.  Seems they think there'll be no opposition from anyone on the Cornelius Town Council.  I'm glad that NC 16 will be finished by the time this opens.  That way I can avoid 77 at all costs.

[A2]

monsoon, on Feb 15 2007, 04:23 PM, said:

I agree this may be the case.  Southpark is very difficult to get to and this place won't have as much of a problem being located right of I-77.

I find SP very easy to get to.
Go 77S, exit off Tyvola, hang a left and keep straight. In five to seven minutes you will be at SP.
That is not really a difficult task. It is really so easy that perhaps a caveman could do it. (You know I had too throw that in )

A2

Edited by A2, 15 February 2007 - 04:47 PM.

[jednc]

This development will be across Hwy 21 from the backside of Birkdale. Any connectivity with BV will require crossing a busy US Hwy. Unless they build a pedestrian bridge across 21, then there will be no connection other than your car.

[monsoon]

^You should look at the map of Upper McDowell Creek Greenway.  It ends right by this development and no doubt the requirement will be there with the road improvements to give direct access to it.  That will put it in walking access of literally 10,000 homes once the Greenway is completed.

[jednc]

I sincerely hope you are right. I would just worry about crossing Hwy 21. I live near the proposed Greenway, so nothing would make me happier than to be able to walk to this new development.

[uptownliving]

The Observer has reported that this will be going between I-77 and US 21...which puts it east of I-77. Is this correct?

EDIT: This pic from the Huntersville Herald answered my question. This will be East of I-77.


The entire story from the Herald is now online.

The Herald reports that Carlsen-Douglas and Bromont are equal partners in this project. I have a lot more faith in this project now that I know Carlsen-Douglas is part of it. They have done some respectable developments in the past.

Edited by uptownliving, 17 February 2007 - 09:55 AM.

[monsoon]

When you add in Bryton and the Langtree mixed use new urbanist developments, this means that 2,100,000 sq ft of upscale retail space has been announced for Huntersville, Davidson and Cornelius.   If you add in some smaller TOD projects on the proposed rail line, this number rises to about 2.5 million sq. ft.   This is an amazing amount of retail if all of it is built and I would predict it will shift shopping patterns in this region.

[DigitalSky]

monsoon, on Feb 18 2007, 10:25 AM, said:

I would predict it will shift shopping patterns in this region.

if not oversaturate the market.

[e2ksj3]

^ I agree, and Northlake would not only be affected, but so would Birkdale Village and other shopping centers around the area.  I can see maybe adding something like that 10 years from now (and of course near one of the North line stations) when population around the lake is larger and support it.

[nova72asu]

Quote

485 through there wont even begin construction until 2013 and this mall is a relatively long way away from Gaston county.    Those people are more likely to shop at malls in Gaston or go to Southpark themselves rather than to make the log drive to exit 18.

I'm originally from Gastonia.  I know lots of Gastonians that travel to Northlake Mall.  The drive there isnt that bad, especially if you know your way through the rural roads, rather than taking I-85 E to I-77 N.

Edited by nova72asu, 20 February 2007 - 12:04 PM.

[nyxmike]

nova72asu, on Feb 20 2007, 01:02 PM, said:

I'm originally from Gastonia.  I know lots of Gastonians that travel to Northlake Mall.  The drive there isnt that bad, especially if you know your way through the rural roads, rather than taking I-85 E to I-77 N.

I'm sure there will be a lot more once I-485 opens to I-77 North. I really think once 485 opens, it will boost traffic at the mall. I am sure a lot of the retailers there are going to sit and wait and see what happens. I used to work retail at SouthPark, and they opened the same store I used to work at at Northlake. I know the manager over at NL and he said they have been doing pretty good and making their days most of the time (however, their days - moneywise - are a lot lower than SouthPark).

[DigitalSky]

I know this is premature, but does anyone know when possible tenants will be revealed?

[nowensone]

nyxmike, on Feb 20 2007, 05:27 PM, said:

I'm sure there will be a lot more once I-485 opens to I-77 North. I really think once 485 opens, it will boost traffic at the mall. I am sure a lot of the retailers there are going to sit and wait and see what happens. I used to work retail at SouthPark, and they opened the same store I used to work at at Northlake. I know the manager over at NL and he said they have been doing pretty good and making their days most of the time (however, their days - moneywise - are a lot lower than SouthPark).

Unless a national retailer with deep pockets, don't see how they could wait like this for years.  Was just driving by there the other day and was amazed how remote much of the immediate area is around Northlake, it must have been a helluva spec mall when first opened.

[monsoon]

There was a regional mall proposed for this area as far back as the early 1980s.  I believe the proposal was originally from the Belk family.  There was also a proposal to place a mall at the junction I-77 & I-85.  Neither idea was thought viable until a few years ago when NorthLake was built.  The problem with that area is that it sits on the edge of Charlotte in the middle of an area that is mostly industrial and office buildings, and against the outer Huntersville zone of influence.  

On the Charlotte side, I can't see where there are going to be a lot of people that want to move into that area unless it is low end starter home development which is mostly what is going up there, along with cheap apartments.  This is not good for the mall's business.   Huntersville on the other hand which did not want that mall built, has zoned all of that land near the mall to be in its rural overlay which means that very few homes or anything else will be built near that mall.  

Obviously the mall was hoping to attract the growing population center around Lake Norman and in that it has failed and/or failing.   There was a article today that said that Huntersville's population was now at 40K and none of it is close to NorthLake.   I think if they approve the Village of Lake Norman and the other announced developments, NorthLake is going to die a slow death just like Eastland did though it will come much faster since there owners presumably are far away from making their money back on that property.   I have mixed feelings if the huge SuperTarget and other similar development will help or hurt that mall, but its my guess they will hurt it.   At best it might hang on in a similar manner as Eastridge mall in Gastonia, but the fact that Gastonians want to make that terrible drive to NorthLake is indication enough of how well that mall is doing.

[tiblerbrit]

Everyone I know in the University Area goes to Northlake Mall or Southpark, but primarily Northlake unless they want to make a trip out of it. Eastland Mall used to be the mall everyone in the University area had to go to 10 years ago, and now Northlake has replaced it. Concord Mills fills another niche and most people I know are a lot less enamored by that mall than Northlake. I'm not sure if there are figures to support the claim that Northlake isn't doing very well, but I also know alot of people in Huntersville/Cornelius/Davidson that go to Northlake too.

[monsoon]

tiblerbrit, on Feb 22 2007, 06:40 PM, said:

.... I'm not sure if there are figures to support the claim that Northlake isn't doing very well, but I also know alot of people in Huntersville/Cornelius/Davidson that go to Northlake too.

There was a post and a link made here that said sales at NorthLake for the first year were just 50% of what was expected.