24 replies to this topic

[krazeeboi]

As our cities and metropolitan areas continue to experience significant growth (and, in turn, congestion), more transportation options are being taken seriously. Several Southern cities either have some form of advanced mass transit (e.g., light rail, commuter rail) under construction or are seriously considering it for the near future. Also, just about all metros of significant size in the South at least have a bus system; however, many are fraught with issues from low ridership figures to lack of financial investment to lack of regional cooperation. So what do you think is the general attitude towards mass transit in the South, especially compared to our Northern/Midwestern/Western counterparts? Are we more apathetic, or perhaps even hostile, towards mass transit? Why are the prevailing attitudes about mass transit in place as they are? And what can we do to change the negative attitudes/perceptions many have towards mass transit?

[mallguy]

I think that people, regardless of where they live, will want to drive places if they can, and if mass transit is faster/cheaper/less of a hassle/etc. than driving, then they will prefer mass transit (not only taking it, but also voting to fund it).  The South has just had less density, traffic, etc. than places like the Northeast, leading to driving in the South being consistently easy and hassle-free compared to mass transit.  As congestion and gas prices increase, making driving a hassle, the South's support of mass transit will grow.

People in the Northeast don't want to wait in sub-freezing weather for an overcrowded train any more than people in the South would, but if it's easier than driving, both will do it.

[davidzLA]

krazeeboi, on Feb 16 2007, 01:35 AM, said:

Also, just about all metros of significant size in the South at least have a bus system

My question for you as OP is, do you yourself prefer and use mass transit whenever available over private transportation?  (I walk to work, so I can largely duck the question. )

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Why are the prevailing attitudes about mass transit in place as they are?

Because people like to set their own schedule and choose when they're around other people.  For the exact same reason people prefer detached houses over apartment complexes.  For the same reason people prefer private hospital rooms rather than wards.  

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And what can we do to change the negative attitudes/perceptions many have towards mass transit?

Dramatically increase the cost of living in the region so that people can't afford private transportation.

[krazeeboi]

davidzLA, on Feb 16 2007, 05:09 PM, said:

My question for you as OP is, do you yourself prefer and use mass transit whenever available over private transportation?  (I walk to work, so I can largely duck the question. )

The only thing available here in Rock Hill is a Park and Ride option in connection with the Charlotte Area Transit System, and it doesn't run nights (which is when I work).

[Riverrat]

krazeeboi, on Feb 16 2007, 03:35 AM, said:

As our cities and metropolitan areas continue to experience significant growth (and, in turn, congestion), more transportation options are being taken seriously. Several Southern cities either have some form of advanced mass transit (e.g., light rail, commuter rail) under construction or are seriously considering it for the near future. Also, just about all metros of significant size in the South at least have a bus system; however, many are fraught with issues from low ridership figures to lack of financial investment to lack of regional cooperation. So what do you think is the general attitude towards mass transit in the South, especially compared to our Northern/Midwestern/Western counterparts? Are we more apathetic, or perhaps even hostile, towards mass transit? Why are the prevailing attitudes about mass transit in place as they are? And what can we do to change the negative attitudes/perceptions many have towards mass transit?

I think there is a hostility in the South toward mass transit.  As a lifelong Southerner I believe that to understand this, one should look at the traditional cultural attitudes of the South.  In the low flat South as well as the uplands, people generally enjoyed the rural agrarian life in lieu of the urban industrial one up North.  Room to farm, hunt, and entertain seem to have been held in high esteem, much as they are today by many.  We were slow getting our cities started and seemingly even today not everything that makes a city a city appeals to the southern mindset.  To put it another way-every man in the South, so it seems,  still wants to be a country boy with a big spread.

I like the concept of mass transit from an energy saving standpoint.  Certainly it would save thousands of gallons of fuel to have everyone take a bus, trolley, train, etc.   Maybe not today, but the future looks questionable for the private auto.  I loved the cable cars of San Francisco, but that wouldn't work everywhere if I do understand the mechanics of them correctly.   I believe to encourage the development of trains, trolleys, bike paths, maybe even transport boats on rivers such as mine here in Shreveport which straddle the residential to work areas of town.  I would like to see it happen.  By educating over and over again, we may be able to change minds in the South about mass transit.  There will certainly be those resistant to it as always, but it could sway the majority.

Here is the mindset of my region- "We want to farm, live 10 minutes from downtown, and have a curbside parking space in front of my office."   Not reality by any means, but many people believe they can have it.   It will be some of these folks who will be the most resistant.

Whereas my city doesn't have the notorious traffic gridlock of Dallas,  Houston, Atlanta, or even Baton Rouge, we still manage to get tied up in heavy traffic.  Here, the energy saving and "green" benefits would be felt most.   I would like to give it a spin (pun intended).  Studies and meetings would be necessary for professional and citizen input.

Right now, the closest we are to mass transit is a 20 hour a day monday thru friday city bus schedule.   This is on a trial basis and is primarily to help shift workers come to and from their jobs.   Buses run from 5 am to 1am with just a 4 hour downtime.   I don't know how well it's working, but this has been on trial since Oct. 2006.    Unfortunately , we have no park n ride or ride share programs going in our area at present.

[suburban george3]

With most Southern cities being much smaller until as of late, mass transit has not been a major concern in many of the municipalities here.  Most cities have had streetcar service which was replaced with Bus transit that has fairly much been limited to lower income populations.

I am an advocate of mass transit and would utilize it if the schedules were effective and the terminus points were relatively close to my origin/destination.

However, until the densities of Southern Cities increase, I doubt we'll see very effective mass transit systems here such as there are in Europe, NY, etc.

[Spartan]

I think its ironic that people view cars as "less of a hassle." I consider it a major inconvenience to have to drive somewhere, park, walk 1/4 mile to the store, then walk 5 miles in the store to get the three thigns I need -which are in 3 corners of the store- and then go back to my car... only to drive to the next store and do the same thing all over again. I think that life in the South without a car is very difficult, though there are people who do it. The big determination of success is how many people use it by choise. That is a better indication of the success of transit.

I think that the saving grace for south is the flex-car concept. Larger city have them. If you're not familiar- basicly it allows you to live in an urban environment with that non-car lifestyle, but still have access to a car when you need it. Its basicly a communal car. I've not seen them much in the South, but I think it will catch on. DC has them, and I think that Atlanta does too.

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As far as transit itself, I know that in my city of Spartanburg, it is largely an irrelevant thing. Its a way for the poor to get around, and it is not much more than that. The problem is that nobody has ever tried to make it more than it is.

Transit has seen a large upswing nationwide though. The South included. So maybe the time has come when transit moves beyond the subsistence level and actually impacts lifestyle chosies in out cities.

I know that in SC, commuter rail, light rail, BRT, and express bus studies have all been completed, and they are working towards a higher level of transit presence. Charleston, for example, is the frst city in SC to have a permanent express bus service.

[pyper]

Who wants to stand out on a platform and wait for a train when the option is an air conditioned automobile? Even if it takes longer at least you can play your tunes, eat, and drink.

Wife and I visited Chicago and rode the train everywhere. It worked great. If it was 105 degrees and I had a coat and tie it woudln't be so nice.

[Spartan]

Temperature might be an issue for two or three months a year. Otherwise you don't have an arguement. How much time do you spend on the plat form or at the bus stop? 5-10 minutes max? You can do all of the above on the bus/train (except maybe eat/drink depending on the system). You can also read, take a nap, stare into space, or what ever you want. People can do that in cars too, but they tend to cause crashes by doing that.

Who wants to sit in rush hour traffic hitting every red light, changing lanes, dealing with a-hole drivers when you don't have to? Obviously a lot of people, but thats just my take on it!

[dxartist]

I like to use mass transit myself so I don't have use the car as much.  Sometimes, I need a little more sleep before work and that extra 20 minutes napping on the bus can do wonders.  Can't wait for the light rail to open since I will be riding for a couple days a week.

However, I also like riding my scooter.  Spending $2.00 on gas a week to commute 15 miles a day for 6 days is actually less expensive than riding the bus or future light rail.  Not only that, commuting home from work is also like joyriding.  So I'm killing two birds with one stone.

In short, I can't go wrong with riding mass or riding 2 wheels  

Edited by dxartist, 29 August 2007 - 08:20 AM.

[912]

I think Riverrat has come the closest to why mass transit isn't well received down here, not to mention the ongoing stigma that mass transit is "for the poor".

I present another reason why mass transit isn't well received: Taxes.  I don't know of a single mass transit system in the South that idn't taxpayer supported in one way or the other.  And as we know, this region of the country is historically a "don't raise my taxes" region.

Now I know roads are also built with taxpayer funds, but let's not forget the original intent of Interstate highways, for example, which was to facilitate the movement of commerce & military equipment, neither of which can be accomplished on a bus.

[sunshine]

I think people in the south, generally think that public transportaion is for the poor.

[tombarnes]

fromsc2tx, on Aug 29 2007, 01:00 PM, said:

I think Riverrat has come the closest to why mass transit isn't well received down here, not to mention the ongoing stigma that mass transit is "for the poor".

I present another reason why mass transit isn't well received: Taxes.  I don't know of a single mass transit system in the South that idn't taxpayer supported in one way or the other.  And as we know, this region of the country is historically a "don't raise my taxes" region.

Now I know roads are also built with taxpayer funds, but let's not forget the original intent of Interstate highways, for example, which was to facilitate the movement of commerce & military equipment, neither of which can be accomplished on a bus.

True, but movement of military equipment can be accomplished by air or rail as well as by road.  Rapid rail could well function in an enhanced capacity for purposes other than mere transportation of people.  As for the general unwillingness of people in the South to support public transportation, most of the reasons above are true.  It will take a new mindset to change things.

[Spartan]

fromsc2tx, on Aug 29 2007, 01:00 PM, said:

I think Riverrat has come the closest to why mass transit isn't well received down here, not to mention the ongoing stigma that mass transit is "for the poor".

I present another reason why mass transit isn't well received: Taxes.  I don't know of a single mass transit system in the South that idn't taxpayer supported in one way or the other.  And as we know, this region of the country is historically a "don't raise my taxes" region.

Now I know roads are also built with taxpayer funds, but let's not forget the original intent of Interstate highways, for example, which was to facilitate the movement of commerce & military equipment, neither of which can be accomplished on a bus.

Name one city in the USA that has a transit system that isn't funded by tax payers. Taxes are definitely THE issue though. dont misunderstand me.

[Spatula]

I think that generally mass transit is not a competitive alternative to driving in the south, so it is underutilized when available. If it were better, people would probably be all for it. All this 'American dream' and 'people like driving' stuff is bullcrap. Some people are very political in their opposition to mass transit. Usually, it is just a routine product of how American cities grew after WW2.

Taxes are a silly excuse. The road you're driving on is just as guilty.

[Spartan]

But its under utilized because our cities are primarily suburban, which is really what this whole thread is about. As our cities become more urban, transit becomes more viable.

[sonofaque86]

Maybe in the Northeast nobody thinks of it for a certain kind of people, but atleast in the South or as I see in Columbia people think its for the poor or people who can't afford cars

[krazeeboi]

I want to revisit this issue in light of our impending energy crisis and crumbling infrastructure. Do we see attitudes starting to change even just a little here in the South?

[PCGrad02]

I'll add that I was in Atlanta at the end of last week, took MARTA from the Airport to Midtown.  At 10:00 at night on Wednesday, the train was standing room only, and Friday afternoon it was the same way.  There is hope for mass transit in the south.

[Spartan]

Many cities and states appear to be taking a second look at transit. The South Carolina DOT is study passenger rail options within SC, and hopefully it will result in a functional rail system sometime in the future.