16 replies to this topic

[urbanvb]

Suffolk urban plan to rival Beach’s Town Center unveiled

The estimated $553 million Harbour View Station would create the city’s
second downtown, if built out as planned by 2013. RENDERING COURTESY OF CMSS ARCHITECTS  

Quote

SUFFOLK - Developers rolled out plans Tuesday to build a massive town-center style project on 126 acres of farm fields in the fast-growing northern part of the city.

Harbour View Station is planned to have about 40 buildings laid out in an urban-style grid pattern totaling nearly 3 million square feet. That includes 1,200 condos and apartments, 750 hotel rooms, 500,000 square feet of office space, 150,000 square feet of medical space, and 600,000 square feet of retail.

This is a huge development.  

[vdogg]

urbanvb, on Mar 21 2007, 01:13 AM, said:

Suffolk urban plan to rival Beach's Town Center unveiled

The estimated $553 million Harbour View Station would create the city's
second downtown, if built out as planned by 2013. RENDERING COURTESY OF CMSS ARCHITECTS



This is a huge development.

There goes the neighborhood. I never expected Suffolk to develop like this.

[andyfried]

This project is great for northern suffolk.but it does nothing for downtown.Downtown suffolk is in desperate need of some new developments.A few new buildings would do this boring little downtown some justice.

[vaceltic]

Additional renderings can be seen on CMSS architects website.
www.cmssarchitects.com

[urbanlife]

I always thought North Suffolk should be its own town anyways, so this is good to hear for the area.  And yes it would be nice to see some new developments in downtown Suffolk, but I have a feeling with the growth happening in the north side of the city, that the southern side will all be forgotten about.

[andyfried]

urbanlife, on Mar 22 2007, 02:34 PM, said:

I always thought North Suffolk should be its own town anyways, so this is good to hear for the area.  And yes it would be nice to see some new developments in downtown Suffolk, but I have a feeling with the growth happening in the north side of the city, that the southern side will all be forgotten about.

The southern part of suffolk is just as far away from downtown as the northern part is.Suffolk is a very big city and downtown is right in the middle.Southern suffolk is very rural ,and downtown is like a little urban core.Northern Suffolk was very much like southern suffolk until the last couple of years.They shouldn't neglect downtown because I think it has great potential.I'm amazed at the amount of development in the north.I'm not complaining at least we are getting some great developments somewhere in the city.

[Seven Cities]

Wow - massive development.  I just hope that Suffolk keeps its growth in check.

vaceltic, on Mar 21 2007, 03:58 PM, said:

Additional renderings can be seen on CMSS architects website.
www.cmssarchitects.com

Great...yet ANOTHER CMSS project.  

[urbanlife]

andyfried, on Mar 22 2007, 12:22 PM, said:

The southern part of suffolk is just as far away from downtown as the northern part is.Suffolk is a very big city and downtown is right in the middle.Southern suffolk is very rural ,and downtown is like a little urban core.Northern Suffolk was very much like southern suffolk until the last couple of years.They shouldn't neglect downtown because I think it has great potential.I'm amazed at the amount of development in the north.I'm not complaining at least we are getting some great developments somewhere in the city.

I agree, don't forget, i did grow up there and am very, very familiar with the make up of Suffolk.  I just think it should of been broken into two cities when it became a city.  I think at this point in time it would make more sense because the north end is coming on new development and I suspect the city of Suffolk might start pulling a Chesapeake and forget about their downtown and start focusing on a new area.  I do hope I am wrong with this, but if it were two cities, this wouldn't even be an issue.  Now saying that, I could be totally wrong about Suffolk, they could use this new amount of tax dollars to help revive their downtown because, unlike Chesapeake, Suffolk's city government is downtown, so there are city officials that see downtown Suffolk everyday.


And yes I totally agree about downtown Suffolk.  It has the potential to be a great little downtown and be a greater service the the area that surrounds it.  But to do that, they will have to improve the job market downtown and make it attractive to new development.  At its current state, with the exception of a couple improvements, it is mostly a rundown downtown....but not a done for downtown.

[andyfried]

urbanlife, on Mar 27 2007, 04:06 PM, said:

I agree, don't forget, i did grow up there and am very, very familiar with the make up of Suffolk.  I just think it should of been broken into two cities when it became a city.  I think at this point in time it would make more sense because the north end is coming on new development and I suspect the city of Suffolk might start pulling a Chesapeake and forget about their downtown and start focusing on a new area.  I do hope I am wrong with this, but if it were two cities, this wouldn't even be an issue.  Now saying that, I could be totally wrong about Suffolk, they could use this new amount of tax dollars to help revive their downtown because, unlike Chesapeake, Suffolk's city government is downtown, so there are city officials that see downtown Suffolk everyday.
And yes I totally agree about downtown Suffolk.  It has the potential to be a great little downtown and be a greater service the the area that surrounds it.  But to do that, they will have to improve the job market downtown and make it attractive to new development.  At its current state, with the exception of a couple improvements, it is mostly a rundown downtown....but not a done for downtown.

They are redeveloping the fairgrounds,a part of downtown similar to church street in norfolk where black businesses flourished until the early 1970's.This project means a lot to me because this is where I grew up,and I never thought in a million years they would do anything to enhance this area.You are certainly right about the job market in downtown,it sucks! The development planned for the old obici hospital site should be great for downtown because it will bring a much needed movie theater to this area of the city.We need another department store,because WalMart has monopolized our shopping experience here in downtown Suffolk.

[urbanlife]

you are right, I forgot about them redeveloping the fairgrounds and the old obici site.  I use to deliver printed material to Obici back when they were at the old hospital.

Yeah a stronger push for better retail in downtown would probably help spur things along.  Granted, i am not sure the city could handle what Norfolk had to do to get their downtown back in action by building a mall downtown.  But it would be nice to see some new improvements to happen there.

[orulz]

This project is not going to be the urban panacea that the developers are suggesting. While the pretty renderings might trick us into believing them, this will be nothing like VB's town center.

The greatest strengths of VB's town center are not its density or the mere fact that its streets are gridded. They are that 1. it is on a previously underutilized parcel in the center of an already heavily developed area. 2. its location allows its gridded streets to easily extend into neighboring parcels, allowing the district to GROW. It's not limited to one developer. Other developers can buy nearby land, extend the street grid onto their property, and be part of the district. 3. VB Town Center is right on the VB-Norfolk rail line, which will probably be used for transit at some point in the future. They're taking all the right steps to build a legitimate downtown from scratch. To me, that's absolutely amazing, and I've never seen anything quite like it in the US.

This Suffolk town center is completely hemmed in, on the west by suburban cul-de-sac subdivisions, on the east by a massive freeway interchange, and on the north and south by big exurban arterials. The street grid can't grow across any of these barriers. There is very little potential for urban development to spread outside this development. More likely, we'll see strip malls, power centers, and big boxes spring up in the neighborhood. While this development will wind up being internally walkable, that means nothing. "Lifestyle Centers" are internally walkable. Shopping malls are internally walkable. Hell, Super Wal-Marts are internally walkable. To go anywhere not on this one exact parcel developed by this one developer, will require getting in your car and driving.

[vaceltic]

Sounds alot like West Broad Village in Richmond.

[urbanlife]

very true on one fact, it is almost....if not is impossible to find and urban area that is not built on a grid of some kind.

[urbanfan]

orulz, on Apr 4 2007, 02:31 PM, said:

This project is not going to be the urban panacea that the developers are suggesting. While the pretty renderings might trick us into believing them, this will be nothing like VB's town center.

The greatest strengths of VB's town center are not its density or the mere fact that its streets are gridded. They are that 1. it is on a previously underutilized parcel in the center of an already heavily developed area. 2. its location allows its gridded streets to easily extend into neighboring parcels, allowing the district to GROW. It's not limited to one developer. Other developers can buy nearby land, extend the street grid onto their property, and be part of the district. 3. VB Town Center is right on the VB-Norfolk rail line, which will probably be used for transit at some point in the future. They're taking all the right steps to build a legitimate downtown from scratch. To me, that's absolutely amazing, and I've never seen anything quite like it in the US.

This Suffolk town center is completely hemmed in, on the west by suburban cul-de-sac subdivisions, on the east by a massive freeway interchange, and on the north and south by big exurban arterials. The street grid can't grow across any of these barriers. There is very little potential for urban development to spread outside this development. More likely, we'll see strip malls, power centers, and big boxes spring up in the neighborhood. While this development will wind up being internally walkable, that means nothing. "Lifestyle Centers" are internally walkable. Shopping malls are internally walkable. Hell, Super Wal-Marts are internally walkable. To go anywhere not on this one exact parcel developed by this one developer, will require getting in your car and driving.

I have to disagree with the grid comment.  Other than town center, there is no grid off of Pembroke.  Just behind and beside town center are nothing but cul desac condos and townhomes, which seperate the Midtown at Cityview and Town Center.  Almost all the other roads are some diagonal shaped curved road or just an odball shape mix match of roads.

[scm]

orulz, on Apr 4 2007, 03:31 PM, said:

They're taking all the right steps to build a legitimate downtown from scratch. To me, that's absolutely amazing, and I've never seen anything quite like it in the US.

Must not get around much -- try this.

Bob's development is going to work, for one inescapable reason -- it is literally in the center of the region, with easy access.  All those arterials you think (from 300 miles away, I might add) restrict it, actually enhance it.  Just like SL Town Square, it will draw people in, where they park, then walk.  There will be offices, and residential, like SL Town Square, which will contribute to the "urban" environment.  It works in SL, and will work here -- aided by the best payrolls in Hampton Roads, which surround the development.

[urbanvb]

SUFFOLK - The City Council on Wednesday unanimously approved a rezoning request on 126 acres of farm fields in north Suffolk for a mixed-use development that is being compared to Virginia Beach's Town Center.

link

[vdogg]

Harbourview hoping for medical space

Quote

Two local hospital systems – and two commercial real estate firms – have eyes on the Harbour View area of Suffolk.    

Over the past year, Bon Secours Hampton Roads Health System; CB Richard Ellis; Thalhimer, Cushman & Wakefield; and Sentara Healthcare have made strides into the growing area.

The four entities have free-standing health care facilities and medical office buildings that are already open, under construction or in planning stages.