36 replies to this topic

[hauntedheadnc]

I ask because according the City E-News edition that I just received, demolition on that property goes before the downtown commission on June 8th, along with a formal review of the Ellington and the Zona Lofts.  When I check Google Maps, the only thing that shows at 22 Church is the parking lot across the street from the Wachovia... unless they're talking about one of those little buildings that line the street between the parking lot and First Presbyterian.  

I'm hoping not... Does anyone have some insight?

[rooster8]

I found 22 Church on an EPA site that lists properties.  They list the occupant as Swannanoa Cleaners.

[hauntedheadnc]

Crap... That sounds like it would be one of those store buildings.

[orulz]

That's the lot that holds the Swannanoa Cleaners building across from 12 South Lexington. It's a pretty neat, gritty looking building. It's owned by Central United Methodist church, which is right across Church Street from there. Not sure what they're doing with the lot; it may or may not include demolition of the entire building. But I wouldn't be too surprised if if it had something to do with parking.

[hauntedheadnc]

Lovely.  God knows the best thing that could happen to that block would be for even more of it to be given over to parking.

[orulz]

The church has actually some plans (maybe under construction already?) for a new building to go on a parking lot on the NE corner of Buncombe and Aston, so they aren't necessarily as parking-crazy as your avererage suburban megachurch.  It would be nice if this was only a partial demolition and they were just reconfiguring the building, or something.

[otis-t]

This building has great 1920s industrial feel, especially the Lexington Avenue façade and south side. The brick shell and metal casement windows give it character similar to the motor company buildings on Coxe Avenue that are going/have gone condo. The Church Street façade was remodeled in the 1940s, giving it a more refined classical look. Best of all, however, is what is literally imbedded in this building-an old brick Presbyterian church is at the core of this block, its cross-gabled roof peeks up over the flat roof of the 1920s industrial building. (I don’t see it mentioned in the architect’s report referenced in Orulz’ post--I wonder if the Central Methodist folks know it's there.) The Presbyterian church may have been built as early as the 1840s, with a graveyard fronting Church Street by the late 19th century. (Wonder what happened to that!) By the early 20th century there were Sunday school additions on the south and east sides of the church-the complex was as big as the Central Methodist Church across the street. This place has a good story to tell-I don’t know what the rehab and brownfields challenges would be, but would hate to see it go. This + 31 Biltmore = 2 proposed demolitions in the Downtown Historic District.

[hauntedheadnc]

I went poking around this building today.  Does anyone know what the outcome of the demolition request was?  Unlike, say, 31 Biltmore, this building absolutely does not deserve the wrecking ball.  It's a fascinating mishmash of architecture, it boasts an unusual and interesting history, and it's a visual delight, as understated as it is.  If they're planning to take it down, folks need to get good and mad and see if they can't stop that.

[otis-t]

The Downtown Commission will meet this Friday to review the proposed demolition. As I understand it, the Commission has the power to delay, but not to deny. Make some noise! Contact Commission members or the Planning Department and let them know what you think before Friday!

[hauntedheadnc]

Gentlemen, welcome to your worst fears.  They want to tear it down for a parking lot.

http://www.citizen-t...ID=200770606139

This building is too interesting and too significant to lose.  We're not talking the brick box at 31 Biltmore here at all!

[rooster8]

Here's an aerial from Buncombe's GIS site:



If they take out this building, they're will hardly be anything left on this whole block.

Edited by rooster8, 07 June 2007 - 10:55 AM.

[otis-t]

There's a great photo of this site in 1919. Sorry I can't make the link work --
Go go to the WNC Heritage website, www.heritagewnc.org
Hit "Asheville's Built Environment"
Hit "photographs" database
Search "Church Street to Pritchard Park"
Check out the embedded church at bottom right.
This is a great site for browsing photos of old Asheville.

[orulz]

Here's the image:



Wow, I wonder how much of that church is left inside there? Obvioulsy, the gothic steeple is gone, and the footprint of the old chuch was formerly much larger than the existing building.

Perhaps Mr. Alberice can comment about the condition of the old church, and why the Swannanoa Cleaners building addition would be better demolished than standing.

[hauntedheadnc]

orulz, on Jun 7 2007, 03:51 PM, said:

Here's the image:



Wow, I wonder how much of that church is left inside there? Obvioulsy, the gothic steeple is gone, and the footprint of the old chuch was formerly much larger than the existing building.

Perhaps Mr. Alberice can comment about the condition of the old church, and why the Swannanoa Cleaners building addition would be better demolished than standing.

That steeple in the foreground belongs to First Presbyterian. looks like it's just the roof then as it is now.

As for whether the building can be saved... I am not saying that this applies to Mr. Alberice, but it's probably just easier to tear the building down moreso than necessary to tear it down.  When it comes to the vast majority of developers, if they advocated taking any route but the easiest and cheapest, it would probably tear the fabric of space and time.

[rooster8]

I've highlighted the roof of the old church in this picture taken from the above shot:

[pyalberice]

We have looked extensively into the possibility of reusing the existing building, including the remaining church structure.  Unfortunately, from a preservation standpoint, there is very little of the old church that is existing, other than the roof, which is in deteriorated condition.  Most of the original church structure is long gone and to rebuild the church structure, so much of it would be new, that it would really be a new building and not a restoration.  Also, the facade on Church Street dates from the 1940's but it is a faux Georgian wall that is only 1 to 2 feet thick.  It is more of a stage set.

[hauntedheadnc]

pyalberice, on Jun 7 2007, 04:50 PM, said:

We have looked extensively into the possibility of reusing the existing building, including the remaining church structure.  Unfortunately, from a preservation standpoint, there is very little of the old church that is existing, other than the roof, which is in deteriorated condition.  Most of the original church structure is long gone and to rebuild the church structure, so much of it would be new, that it would really be a new building and not a restoration.  Also, the facade on Church Street dates from the 1940's but it is a faux Georgian wall that is only 1 to 2 feet thick.  It is more of a stage set.

It's still better than a parking lot, and should be preserved if for no other reason than that it's incredibly unusual.  If it gets torn down, as others have said, there will hardly anything on that block except for parking.  Maybe the church will building something on that parking lot though, but that won't be until long after most of us posting here are old and dead.  Parking lots stay parking lots for generations, most of the time, and I would rather have an old factory wearing a church roof like a jaunty beret, more than I would a parking lot.  That, and even if the faux wall is just dressing, it's still prettier than the vast majority of new construction in Asheville lately.  I am totally against this demolition.

Edited by hauntedheadnc, 07 June 2007 - 02:55 PM.

[wtango]

Haunted-
If the Church were to keep the building as is, per your desire, how do you suggest they continue to foot the bill for:

1.  Upkeep and maintenance of the empty, unusable building
2.  Liability insurance for that property, and security to protect it and people who might want to use it for illegal purposes
3.  Cleanup of the remnants from when it was used as a Dry cleaning facility.

Preserving historical and interesting buildings in Asheville is ideally the first, best way to go.  Whether that option is economically feasible and possible is often another story.  In this case the Church and the design team looked very hard for a way to preserve the building and improve it.  Unfortunately, that no longer appears to be a viable way to go.

[hauntedheadnc]

You're telling me that there is absolutely nobody anywhere who would want the building to use as whatever?  Is it on the verge of collapse?  I figure if the Broadway Arts building can be brought back from a situation where there were trees growing out of the rubble from its collapsed roof, then saying this building is too far gone is a cop out.  Sell the damn thing to someone who will do more justice to it and the city than tearing it down and wasting yet more land on surface parking.

Edited by hauntedheadnc, 07 June 2007 - 03:18 PM.

[orulz]

It seems like the church decided to expand onto the NCNB parking lot along Buncombe Street next door to their existing sanctuary instead of into the 22 Church building. So, yeah - why not sell 22 Church to somebody who would put it to use? Public Interest Projects for example. They're really good at doing that. Does the church want to land bank it for future expansion? Seems like a waste. They won't get a whole lot of parking spaces out of the tear-down, either- 50 or so. While the parking spaces will generate revenue, they won't generate that much revenue, certainly not compared to what they would get out of selling the building.

Right now, walking along Patton Avenue between the Dhrumor Building and Pritchard Park, it feel like an enclosed, urban space, in spite of the big ol' parking lots along Patton. Take down 22 Church, and I predict you will kill that feel. The remaining commercial buildings along Church will be isolated, and Asheville will move a step closer to being like any other downtown that has experienced the heavy hand of urban renewal (for example, Durham.)