39 replies to this topic

[hauntedheadnc]

This took me by surprise.  The developer of 21 Battery Park wants to build a 10-story masonry building, in the style of an unnamed building on south Pack Square, with 45 condos on land he bought from the county last year.  A corner of the building intrudes on parkland.  

http://www.citizen-t...D=2007707070316

[rooster8]

You beat me by about two minutes.  Coleman owns the purple parcel and the one to the right as well.



I'm really surprised by this.

Edited by rooster8, 06 July 2007 - 11:28 PM.

[hauntedheadnc]

I suppose this means we can kiss yet another two historic buildings goodbye.  So far, the only one slated for demolition that's actually worth anything is the building on Church Street... Even so, I'm getting tired of this.

[rooster8]

I'd like to see a rendering of how a ten story building would impact the view of city hall and the courthouse.  How tall is the current building?

[hauntedheadnc]

The buildings onsite are only about two stories tall, and the ten-story building will be set back by 30 feet according to the article, leaving enough room to run a street to the entrance court in front of City Hall.  I doubt the building will have much of an effect on the view of the civic buildings.  It will actually just block the southward view of Beaucatcher Mountain from the square.

[orulz]

Something about this building was in one of the agendas (I think it was a pre-application conference for the TRC) a month or two back.

The building on that lot is one that I've always thought should be marked for demolition & redevelopment. It's sort of an old industrial building, and doesn't have any storefronts. It addresses Pack Square with a brick wall. The bricks are nice so I hope they recycle 'em (I'm sure they will; vintage bricks can be worth a fair amount.)

I think the blue highlighted lot with the building on the map by rooster8 has always been privately owned; the vacant pentagonal lot with the corner chopped off is what was sold to the developer by the county.

This will be a prominent spot on the new Pack Square so hopefully they'll do a good job addressing the square architecturally. I'm actually sort of glad that we're getting some private development down in that corner of the park. As it is, it's all institutional and it's really close to the jail, so without some private investment and some storefronts, it has the potential to become a dark & neglected corner of the park.

[otis-t]

The news article is oblique when it comes to the 1920s commercial building on the west parcel (the blue parcel in Rooster8’s message). The word demolition is never used, though I suppose it’s a given. The brick building is a remnant of the late-19th/early-20th street plan, when there was still a functioning grid around the old courthouse. That’s why the commercial building presents a blank wall to the Park. It has a typically modest commercial storefront facing Spruce. The Pack Conservancy folks worked the building nicely into their Park renderings, adding some commercial storefronts and landscaping to the blank north wall (sort of like the recent rehab to the south wall of the Sawyer Motor Co. building on Coxe Ave. -- storefront-type windows and doors were added there to enliven the elevation.)

The Commissioners advertised the sale of the lot in the paper, but apparently didn’t see fit to either notify or offer the site to the Conservancy, which after all, is the organization that has taken the initiative to upgrade and beautify the space for public benefit. Perhaps the County didn’t really break the rules, but the sale sure seems unethical.

[hauntedheadnc]

A rendering and verbal square-dancing about how the developer basically plans a project that breaks every rule that could possibly apply to the site.  I'm a little disconcerted about developers acting as though Asheville is Hendersonville or something, where every project is approved no matter who it displaces, what it destroys, how high it jacks up the taxes for its neighbors, or how inappropriate it is for the site.

http://www.citizen-t...ID=200770722027

[otis-t]

hauntedheadnc, on Jul 23 2007, 02:07 AM, said:

A rendering and verbal square-dancing about how the developer basically plans a project that breaks every rule that could possibly apply to the site.  I'm a little disconcerted about developers acting as though Asheville is Hendersonville or something, where every project is approved no matter who it displaces, what it destroys, how high it jacks up the taxes for its neighbors, or how inappropriate it is for the site.

http://www.citizen-t...ID=200770722027

Amen, brother.

[pompusmaximus]

I do understand the concerns about destroying buildings that were part of the original pre-war (WW2) grid. However, a building of 10 stories in my opinion would greatly offset the BB&T building, which seems to stick out and draw too much attention from the other older structures. Does this seem reasonable?

[rooster8]

A couple of Pack descendants are suing the county because they feel the property was deed for park use in perpetuity:

Park land sale leads to lawsuit

[macrocosim144]

rooster8, on Sep 30 2007, 08:57 PM, said:

A couple of Pack descendants are suing the county because they feel the property was deed for park use in perpetuity:

Park land sale leads to lawsuit

Why destroy park space whilst there are painful amounts of surface parking all over downtown in need of infill?  

[otis-t]

macrocosim144, on Oct 1 2007, 01:37 PM, said:

Why destroy park space whilst there are painful amounts of surface parking all over downtown in need of infill?  

It would be great to see infill elsewhere (Coxe Avenue, McDowell Street --- McDowell is so underbuilt!!!) ... but wanna-be elite developments want elite addresses. The Ellington couldn't get on the Square, so it took the closest available (and inappropriate) location down the hill. If I could play a giant game of chess with downtown construction sites, I'd move the Ellington somewhere where it could occupy a square block, maybe to the Carolina First site. Move Carolina First to Coxe Avenue. Infill the Biltmore Avenue lot with retail and apartments scaled to existing Bilmore and Lex Ave buildings...

[hauntedheadnc]

http://www.citizen-t...ID=200771003098

My favorite quote: "The façade of the building is pretty nice, but the height of it and the location of it are completely unacceptable,” Asheville resident Steve Rasmussen said.

Exactly what the hell would be an acceptable height, then?  One story?  Two at the most?  And what, precisely is wrong with the location?  It's a freakin' parking lot, for crying out loud.  Is that better to have right in the middle of downtown than a building?

[otis-t]

Has anyone seen a site plan for this project? I'd like to see how the facade lines up with other buildings along the south side of Pack, and how the access road will work. I agree with Hauntedhead that height is irrelevant -- massing and how the building fits in is very relevant.

[orulz]

Here's my take. The developer purchased or acquired rights to the Hayes-Hopson Building at the corner of Spruce & Marjorie through legal and entirely kosher means. They then convinced Buncombe County who owned a vacant parcel next door, the Old Jail site, to sell as well.

The problem is,

1. The old jail site was NOT a parking lot. It was part of the pack square park, and Pack Conservancy programmed the park space with the assumption that it would remain as part of the park.
2. The developer apparently paid the county less than fair market value for the parcel.
3. There are deed restrictions, which appear to be in question, that the parcel be used eternally for public purposes.

The Hayes-Hopson building is in blue below, and the Old Jail site is in green.

[hauntedheadnc]

The questionable legality of the whole mess is why I would oppose this project, but I have no problem at all with height, and I'm sick of NIMBY's standing in the way of sensible downtown growth.  They're really starting to get on my nerves these days with their faulty assumption that Asheville was ever Mayberry to begin with and that it should stay that way forever more because they're too damned blind to open their eyes and see the traffic, crime, grit, and tall buildings that mark this as the metropolitan hub of this part of the state.  

As for this specific project, yes it should be scrutinized much more carefully because Coleman is definitely not playing by the rules here.  However, that's why this project needs a closer look, not the height which is giving the NIMBY's fits.

[artworks1437]

10/10 Mountain Xpress article about the condo project on Pack Square
10/19 Mountain Xpress article about the condo project on Pack Square

Edited by artworks1437, 21 October 2007 - 09:14 AM.

[hauntedheadnc]

The Pack Square Conservancy disapproves.  Coleman says he's redesigning the project.

http://www.citizen-t...3/1003/ARCHIVES

[rooster8]

The Downtown Commission is reviewing this project as well as the Ravenscroft projects today.  The CT article makes it sound like Coleman is still planning on incorporating the parcel with the magnolia tree.  Did the proposed swap with the city not happen?