37 replies to this topic

[beltwayboy08]

We in Virginia have always been "revolutionary". As Governor Kaine would say; "Virginia leading the way".  In recent days, our state has been passing controversial and progressive laws, such as the hefty traffic fines, and the just announced immigration law put in place by Prince William County. there are already other counties in the country who are considering the idea of taking the battle with illegal immigration into their own hands as Prince William has done.
It isn't limited to laws either. look at the HOT lane idea, and how the state gives counties the ability to halt development in order to controll population and traffic. We lead the way in quantity of personal wealth and education.
other states and jurisdictions watch Virginia closely to see how these things work in order to use them themselves.   In my opinion, Virginia has always had a prominent leadership quality that doesn't just end with George Washington Woodrow Wilson, and Thomas Jefferson, as well as 6 other presidents, famous explorers, Lewis and Clark who added 1/3 of our nations lands, dignified generals like Lee and Jackson.   It also has many important and pivotal historical places like Jamestown, , Arlington Cemetery, the ending of the revolutionary war at yorktown, most of the civil war, including Appomattox, Manassas, Richmond, etc.

Virginia also has the headquarters of the Atlantic fleet of the US navy, 3 major military installations like quintic, and A.P hill, It has the headquarters for the C.I.A at Langley, and the Pentagon which is arguably the most powerful building in the world, and is the planets largest office building.
what are your thoughts on how Virginia is the state that has and is "leading the way"?

[wrldcoupe4]

Virginia should be more open to diversity, promote and implement smarter, sustainable, growth initiatives (so Virginia doesn't become one giant sprawling hell hole), promote public transit, rail transit, etc, so that we don't end up in an infinite state of gridlock, make education (primary, secondary, and higher learning) a major priority, lower state imposed barriers that make regional cooperation difficult, aggressively promote sustainable energy and improve the health of our state's ecosystems.

That's a start

[vdogg]

wrldcoupe4, on Jul 11 2007, 08:19 PM, said:

Virginia should be more open to diversity

That's a big one and I think that really holds us back in a lot of areas. Talented people come from all walks of life and if Virginia chooses to make itself undersireable to certain segments of the population it is to our detriment, not theirs.

[adctvmonkey]

I LOVE living in Virginia. I wouldn't live anywhere else. But I think it would be great if the state could do something to help with healthcare, transportation, sustainable development/environmental goodies, promote higher learning, and stop illegal immigration.

[beltwayboy08]

adctvmonkey, i happen to agree with you.  i love living in virginia too. we do need to work on our transportation issues and urban sprawl issues.  but i think Prince William County has taken the innitiative on stopping illeagal immigration.  while i agree that illeagals help our economy, the sheer number of them, that is growing more rappidly every day, isnt helping it, and needs to be halted now. prince william co. was 10 percent hispanic in 2002. now in 2007, its 20 percent.  for those of you who disagree with my perspective.. im just very unsure about what the future will hold if we keep getting all these illeagals.

[rusthebuss]

illegals hurt way more than what they help the economy. They usually only help the businesses that hire them but they hurt the public infrastructure such as hospitals, schools etc.

[adctvmonkey]

i think i heard that a large majority of crimes in prince william county were committed by illegals. but i really wish virginia would get rid of all of them. i especially dont like the fact that theyre clogging the state's schools, roads, and hospitals as rusthebuss said on our tax money. *i'm not racist, i'm korean-american, but i dont admire illegal anyones at all*

[beltwayboy08]

i'm tired of pressing 1 for english....   if i could understand them, it would make me warm up to them more. im 20 and i work in a car dealership and that forces me to talk to people. when they speak another language, it makes it hard for me. especially when on will speak english as a moderator and they will be talking about me or what they are trying to buy, because i cant give my input.

[cpeakesqr]

I'm pressing 2...       Wow... what an inconvenience!!!

Si empujando un botón extra en el teléfono te causa tanto inconveniente, yo no sé cómo usted podría funcionar en la vida.   Si Mexicanos fueron tan perezosos como Americanos como tu, no habría un problema de la inmigración ilegal.  Ellos no podrían sacar de cama, y mucho menos el viaje por el desierto árido. La inmigración no es el fin del mundo. Encuentra algo más grave a gimotear sobre.

[scm]

cpeakesqr, on Jul 14 2007, 12:54 AM, said:

Si Mexicanos fueron tan perezosos como Americanos como tu, no habría un problema de la inmigración ilegal.

He said he was tired of having to designate which language he wished to conduct a conversation in.  He never said it was too much work, so "laziness" probably has nothing to do with it.

How did you decide to accuse beltwayboy of laziness?   Or is that just an ad hominem attack, to avoid a serious discussion?

[vdogg]

Hmm...If I understood what was said I would have addressed the issue. No personal attacks, in any language. But, back to topic, I guess i'm one of the few people who just don't get why people get worked up into hysterics about illegals. Is it a problem? Yes. Should it be addressed? Yes. But lets not get ourselves all worked up and go grabbing torches and pitch forks. I guess because i've pretty much seen all sides of life that I can identify with people that are less fortunate than myself. I've been very well off but i've also been dirt poor and homeless. Trust me, it aint pretty. Many of these people do jobs that americans themselves do not want. In that case, what's the harm? As much as this absolutely sickens me to say this, i'm full square behind Bush on this issue. (    ) I think some form of guest worker program would be prudent and I am for amnesty. I do not think that building the modern day equivalent of the Berlin wall along the Mexican border will do anything but make us look fearful and intolerant.

[cpeakesqr]

scm, on Jul 14 2007, 02:38 PM, said:

He said he was tired of having to designate which language he wished to conduct a conversation in.  He never said it was too much work, so "laziness" probably has nothing to do with it.

How did you decide to accuse beltwayboy of laziness?   Or is that just an ad hominem attack, to avoid a serious discussion?

He said he was tired of pressing a button... period. If that's not laziness, I don't know what is.  I'll give beltwayboy the benefit of the doubt, sorry if I offended you. But why are people complaining about knit-picky things when there are many more serious issues to deal with? We are at WAR people!!!  Terrorism is a problem.  Poverty is a problem.  Genocide is a problem.  North Korea is a problem.  Climate change is a problem.  Health care is a problem.  Language and immigration is hardly a problem...  I think WE need to reevaluate our priorities.  The rest of the world isn't blind, they see our inconsistencies.

What is Virginia going to do to stop illegal immigration... nothing. The border is over 1000 miles away... the only way to stop illegal immigration is to seal the borders, which I am all for. Although any wall that goes up WILL eventually come back down. Tom Tancredo said at the last Republican debate, that is was "wrong" to speak Spanish in this country.  Conservatives can turn anything into a moral decision I guess. There are more Hispanics in this country than blacks... If companies want to do more business with more Americans and not just cater to English speakers, what's wrong with that?  

Martin Marty, a highly respected theologian from Univ. of Chicago, came to ODU this past semester.  He delivered a lecture about religion, but it dipped into immigration when he discussed the "stranger".  Immigrants are the strangers of today, but eventually they will be accepted by our society and seen as a beneficial and advantageous part of our culture.  Immigrants are just another ingredient in the melting pot... like salt, you just can't take them out.  Everyone is just afraid, unsure, and mostly unaware...  good luck with that serious debate. Peace.

Edited by cpeakesqr, 14 July 2007 - 03:20 PM.

[beltwayboy08]

cpeakesqr,  if i had attacked hispanics, i would have been deserving of your counter attack. however, i was simply saying that we need to do somthing about ILLEAGAL immigration. i also would be deserving of your counter attack if you were illeagal. If not, no one should be offended.
vdogg, I agree with you about the fact that immigrants do work that americans dont want to do, as i stated before. what i am worried about is the sheer amount of illeagal immigration into our country. also giving cpeakesqr the benefit of the doubt, there are many problems that are caused by illeagal immigration, and those problems are growing. i have nothing bad to say about hispanics, and wish you could meet some of my buddies who are hispanic. i agree that they will become part of english speeking society. i dont want to be made to look like a racist. im not. i do happen to like how PWC is handleing the ILLEAGAL activity in their county and dont think it has anything to do what so ever with rascism and think it will spread if it works.
Lets get back to "all eyes on virginia"!!!   

[rusthebuss]

The problem with illegals is that they aren't paying taxes  but are using public things, such as schools, hospitals, etc. They are bancrupting and causing us to pay more in taxes to sustain what we already have in place. I have no problem with someone coming in here through the proper channels but when you go against our laws why should you be able to become a citizen? You have absolutely have no respect here and if they did they would learn to speak english. You go to other countries you better learn to speak their language.

[beltwayboy08]

i absolutly agree with you and support you on the money situation thing...... but while they could do more to learn the language, it can be hard to learn it completly when they dont have all the tools available to them. especially when they are just trying to earn money to live.  that is why churches and things have free lessons for spanish speakers and english speakers to learn spanish.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Another problem that complicates the process of learning English is that most immigrants - legal or otherwise - get lumped into ghettoes (not the same definition as the vernacular) or enclaves... they're surrounded by their culture and language and therefore it is much harder to learn English (or find a reason to).

Other than that...  I agree with you vdogg.  I will say that going through the 'legal channels', however, can be just as frustrating and difficult as the alternative; my friend got her green card 11 years after moving to the United States... because her home country (Kazakhstan) no longer recognized her citizenship upon leaving, she was a citizen of no country, and it tied up paperwork for years...  It is a ridiculously arduous and exhausting process -- and quite expensive.  I think a lot of people are really dismissive of that fact.  Hopefully my friend will get her citizenship right about the time she graduates from college though

Edited by PeninsulaKiddo, 15 July 2007 - 08:16 PM.

[cpeakesqr]

beltwayboy08, on Jul 15 2007, 04:48 PM, said:

cpeakesqr,  if i had attacked hispanics, i would have been deserving of your counter attack. however, i was simply saying that we need to do somthing about ILLEAGAL immigration. i also would be deserving of your counter attack if you were illeagal. If not, no one should be offended.
vdogg, I agree with you about the fact that immigrants do work that americans dont want to do, as i stated before. what i am worried about is the sheer amount of illeagal immigration into our country. also giving cpeakesqr the benefit of the doubt, there are many problems that are caused by illeagal immigration, and those problems are growing. i have nothing bad to say about hispanics, and wish you could meet some of my buddies who are hispanic. i agree that they will become part of english speeking society. i dont want to be made to look like a racist. im not. i do happen to like how PWC is handleing the ILLEAGAL activity in their county and dont think it has anything to do what so ever with rascism and think it will spread if it works.
Lets get back to "all eyes on virginia"!!!   

I didn't attack you. I just made an observation based on your post. Complaining, or whining, about unsubstantial things like which button you have to push on the phone doesn't help your argument.  If you put 'the spread of nukes' up against 'the illegal immigrant who just moseyed into town'... I think the nukes deserve higher priority! One nuke is scarier than 10 million illegal immigrants... maybe it's just me.

What Prince William is doing is denying certain services to illegals, such as library access.  They even wanted to deny them emergency medical care... I sure hope that doesn't spread!  For a country that claims to value life over everything else, to deny a man who is dying in the street medical care is abominable. Racism is nothing compared to human rights violations.

[beltwayboy08]

i dont see why we cant deal with ILLEAGAL immigration and nukes at the same time......
also, while not saving a mans life is obsurd and should'nd be put into a law book anywhere, not to be cruel, but if it were the position of the United States to fix all the pain and suffering in the world, then we would be in the "poor house" too. I wouldnt call myself conservative at all. but who says that the citizens of the united states have to be the ones to bear the brunt of the cost of ILLEAGAL immigration. this is just one more thing to add on the list of why we should stop ILLEAGAL immigration. Americans have worked very hard to get where we are now, and any other country could do the same thing. americans shouldnt feel the least bit guilty about taking action against ILLEAGAL immigration. being that you're hispanic, i can understand where you are comming from, but you have to see our point of view. look at the statistics. it's exactly what you said before. scary.
and for the record, I'm pretty sure what you said to me was an attack.

Edited by beltwayboy08, 16 July 2007 - 07:11 AM.

[cpeakesqr]

beltwayboy08, on Jul 16 2007, 09:04 AM, said:

i dont see why we cant deal with ILLEAGAL immigration and nukes at the same time......
also, while not saving a mans life is obsurd and should'nd be put into a law book anywhere, not to be cruel, but if it were the position of the United States to fix all the pain and suffering in the world, then we would be in the "poor house" too. I wouldnt call myself conservative at all. but who says that the citizens of the united states have to be the ones to bear the brunt of the cost of ILLEAGAL immigration. this is just one more thing to add on the list of why we should stop ILLEAGAL immigration. Americans have worked very hard to get where we are now, and any other country could do the same thing. americans shouldnt feel the least bit guilty about taking action against ILLEAGAL immigration. being that you're hispanic, i can understand where you are comming from, but you have to see our point of view. look at the statistics. it's exactly what you said before. scary.
and for the record, I'm pretty sure what you said to me was an attack.

Being the richest, most privileged, and morally superior country in the world, it is our responsibility to do something to fix the injustices in the world.  People, such as 'The Minute Men', think that ILLEGAL immigration is the most important issue facing this country, and it's not.   If the process of getting in legally wasn't so strict, and bureaucratic, all the millions of people coming here illegally would have came legally.  The only solution to this most 'important' problem is to seal the border... and then, grant amnesty to all 10-20 million that are here cutting our lawns, picking our oranges, and building our houses.  You want them to pay taxes...make them citizens.  The solution seems simple enough to me... well maybe a guest worker program could work, but I don't see that many workers leaving when there is always work to be done.

And... for the record, I'm not Hispanic.  I see 'your' point of view, but you need to recognize that all of white America doesn't agree with 'your' point of view.  Illegal immigration is not scary, but this is...link.

Edited by cpeakesqr, 16 July 2007 - 07:52 AM.

[beltwayboy07]

your speaking of spanish threw me off too.
if that is the way you feel, then by all means feel free to give your income to others, and struggle to get by.
who said that this topic is the most important issue facing this country? the only reason we are'nt talking about how virginia is leading the way is because you made this topic a big deal by attacking other members. the key word is illegal. there isnt anything subjective about that. people should come here legaly. i know its hard, but its just selfish to make innocent people who just want to support their family and already have a mortgage and a car payment, pay for all the damage caused by illegal immigration. now, all we want to do is have a productive conversation about the topic at hand.

Edited by beltwayboy07, 16 July 2007 - 11:48 AM.