288 replies to this topic

[orulz]

This project (or at least phase 1 of this project) has been scaled back from a massive glassy office/condo/hotel highrise complex to a ho-hum 6 story, 239 unit apartment building. Cooper's and the historic buildings on the corner of Wilmington & Davie will make way for this mediocre plan.

Read the article on Raleigh Public Record.

Couldn't they at least go for an 8 story project with the same number of apartments and leave the historic buildings alone?

[Jones133]

Coopers said they are looking into negotiating air rights....meaning the new stuff would get built over the old stuff...I have seen similar developments in DC and NY. Hopefully now that the clear retail success of old buildings versus new buildings (as I have been screaming all along) is bearing out, they will realize that keeping the old buildings and doing minor brushing up of them, is the path to success at street level.

[orulz]

In this case I would speculate that an air rights deal would probably not mean that something would get cantilevered over the top of the Coopers building (That's expensive and way out of line for the reported $30 million budget for this project) but rather that Coopers would accept some amount of payment in exchange for an agreement to never build something taller than two stories on their lot.

[Jones133]

I have never heard of that sort of air rights deal and I am not sure how an agreement to not build a new building over two stories accomplishes (even on that lot) any goal...? Can you explain that...I may be missing something. Structurally I am not used to a cantilever setup. I think it'd be much easier to just drop a column in the alley and route the air systems through the new building. A little bit of cost there (6 figure-ish?)but shouldn't be anything for concrete but I may be taking too simplistic of a view.

[RaleighRob]

Update on the Edison;  http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/03/28/1964497/high-rise-apartments-pitched-for.html

[RALNATIVE]

Personally, i'm not in favor of another large apartment development in the central business district. While this will definitely help to boost the downtown economy and bring more life to the urban core after hours, i'm concerned about the long term impact of such development on Raleigh's real estate market. I trully think that prime CBD land should be reserved for future Class A office space, a 5 star hotel, etc.

The Hue is a prime example of a waste of land by developers, for the sake of making a quick buck. And we see how that turned out.

Edited by RALNATIVE, 28 March 2012 - 07:57 AM.

[RaleighRob]

Do what?  We're always talking around here about the need for more residents to support businesses downtown.  Those office dwellers might venture out for lunch a few days a week, but they quickly head back to their suburban cul-de-sacs at 5 and eat at the Applebees in some stripmall.
If we want downtown businesses to thrive you gotta have residences.  And downtown already has more than enough high-dollar condos that no one can afford so apartments makes way more sense.

And the Hue ain't a waste of space as far as its use.  We can argue about the architecture, design and quality of the building though, that's fine.  I'm with ya there.  But truth is, it's done its job of offering new options for people to live downtown.

If you wanna make the argument that we need good towers at the Edison spot where there's retail on the ground plus offices above that, then residential above that....in the vein of RBC Plaza...I'm totally there with you.
But I 100% disagree that we don't need apartments in the CBD.  Oh we do...and way way more than this.
And I'm definitely glad this hideous empty lot is finally getting something on it.

Edited by RaleighRob, 28 March 2012 - 12:27 PM.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

amen

[Jones133]

It depends on the vision a person has for a downtown. I for one don't think a class A office park feels right beyond the spine corridors and the blocks adjacent to them.  So for this particular corner, being a block off Fayetteville I do think a hotel or office building would be best. Apartments are an absolute must in any downtown but I think ours should be built into neighborhood-ish areas with concentrations around Glenwood (well on our way there), north Person, and the warehouse district. Sandreuter has a history of getting things almost right. West is a great building, that is poorly oriented and sited. Dawson, is better sited and oriented but feels cheaper on the exterior and fell way short of the original 15 story plan and that I think had some large units carved into smaller units  in the final sell out (I know you said you live there ralnative, so correct me if that did not happen). The parking deck in powerhouse square is a wasted chance to add streetfront office or retail space...the deck is barely used in the day, and not all that much at night. Edison never sounded like a project that fit this town in the best of times, and certainly not when it was announced as the economy started its sink.  Proposing an apartment 'tower'.....well towers of apartments don't make for great neighborhoods, is an incorrect assessment of apartment demand here and land scarcity, and as I said to start, this site seems like it should be hotel or office anyway.