31 replies to this topic

[Atlside]

Atlanta is one of the largest metropolitan areas in the US with only 1 major airport. Do you think metro Atlanta needs a 2nd airport and if so where should it be located?

Would the enlargement of Macon's airport work as a 2nd airport for the Atlanta region? Could they building a connecting commuter rail connection the Atlanta Airport with the Macon Airport?

Also, see today's article in the Atlanta Journal-Constitition


New Delta CEO nixes 2nd airport idea
By Jim Tharpe
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

08/24/07

Minneapolis — The incoming Delta Air Lines chief executive has some advice for Atlanta about a second commercial airport: Don't do it.

....Jackson are connecting passengers — they are simply changing planes. About 25 to 30 percent of Hartsfield-Jackson fliers begin or end their flights in Atlanta.

see entire article:
http://www.ajc.com/n...delta_0825.html

Atlanta is the largest Metropolitan area with one major airport

New York  21,976,224
3 major airports: John F. Kennedy International, Newark Liberty International and New York LaGuardia Airport, with plans for a 4th airport, Stewart International Airport near Newburgh, NY, to be taken over and enlarged by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (which administers the other three airports).


Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside 17,775,984
The Los Angeles metropolitan area is served by more airports than any other city in the world.
There are 6 commercial airports and many more general-aviation airports.
Los Angeles International Airport, LA/Ontario International Airport, owned by the city of Los Angeles and serves the Inland Empire. Bob Hope Airport, formerly known as Burbank Airport; serves the San Fernando Valley portion of the city of Los Angeles,  Long Beach Municipal Airport, serves the Long Beach/Harbor areas of Los Angeles,  John Wayne Airport of Orange County, serves suburban orange county, Palmdale Regional Airport is owned by the city of Los Angeles and serves the northern outlying suburban communities of the Santa Clarita and Antelope Valleys. Los Angeles also has the world's busiest general-aviation airport, Van Nuys Airport and located in Van Nuys, California in the San Fernando Valley, within the Los Angeles city limits. Hollywood celebrities, politicians, and business executives are known to use this airport because it offers them convenience and anonymity.


Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, IL-IN-WI 9,725,317
2 major airports: O'Hare International Airport is home to domestic and international destinations. It is a hub for United Airlines and American Airlines. Construction is underway for a major expansion.
Chicago Midway International Airport serves primarily domestic destinations. It is a major hub for Southwest Airlines and ATA Airlines, as well as a focus city for AirTran Airways.

The city of Chicago is working toward expanding its ties with the Gary/Chicago International Airport in Gary, Indiana.

Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia, DC-MD-VA-WV 8,211,213
Served by 3 major airports, one in Maryland and 2 in Virginia.
Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport located in Arlington County, Virginia.
Washington Dulles International Airport located 26 miles (west of the city in Fairfax and Loudoun counties in Virginia. Dulles is the 2nnd busiest international gateway on the Eastern Seaboard.
Dulles is a hub for United Airlines.  Baltimore-Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport is located 31 miles northeast of the city in Anne Arundel County, Maryland, near Baltimore. BWI has had the highest passenger volume of the 3 major airports in the Baltimore-Washington metro area.


Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH  7,465,634
There are 6 airports in the Boston metro area: Logan International Airport handles most of the scheduled passenger service for Boston. Beverly Municipal Airport to the north, Bedford/Hanscom Field to the west, and Norwood Memorial Airport to the south. T. F. Green Airport serving Providence, Rhode Island, and Manchester-Boston Airport in Manchester, New Hampshire, also provide scheduled passenger service.


San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA 7,228,948 07
There are 3 major airports in the area: San Francisco International Airport though located 13 miles south of the city in San Mateo County, is under the jurisdiction of the City and County of San Francisco. It is a hub for United Airlines. Oakland International Airport ocated 4 miles (6 km) south of downtown Oakland in Alameda County with service to numerous destinations in the US, as well as Mexico. Norman Y. Mineta San Jose International Airport was once an American Airlines hub.

Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD 6,382,714
3 airports serve the Greater Philadelphia area: Philadelphia International Airport is home to a large US Airways hub and is the main international gateway for US Airways. Trenton-Mercer Airport  handles general aviation, corporate aviation and limited commercial service.  Atlantic City International Airport  is currently served by 2 commercial airlines, Spirit Airlines and Delta Connection carrier Atlantic Southeast Airlines. Due to the airport's current growth, more airlines could begin service quite soon.


Dallas-Fort Worth, TX 6,359,758
Dallas is served by 2 commercial airports: Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport (known as DFW International) is headquarters of American Airlines, the largest air carrier in the world and Dallas Love Field is headquarters to Southwest Airlines.


Houston-Baytown-Huntsville 5,641,077
Houston is served by 2commercial airports. The largest is George Bush Intercontinental Airport and is Continental Airlines' largest hub  and  William P. Hobby Airport (named Houston International Airport until 1967) and served by Southwest Airlines and JetBlue Airways.

Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL  5,463,857
3 aiports serve the area: Miami International Airport is the US' 3rd largest international port of entry for foreign air passengers (behind New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport and Los Angeles International Airport), and is the seventh largest such gateway in the world. Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport also serves the metropolitan area, and statistically handles more passengers originating or terminating their travel in South Florida. Palm Beach International Airport, located in unincorporated West Palm Beach. The airport also attracts people from all over the county as well as from the Treasure Coast counties to the north.


Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Gainesville, GA-AL 5,478,667

Detroit-Warren-Flint, MI 5,410,014
3 airports seve the area: Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport the area's principal airport, is located in nearby Romulus and is a hub for Northwest Airlines and Spirit Airlines. Coleman A. Young International Airport previously called Detroit City Airport, is on Detroit's northeast side. Although Southwest Airlines once flew from the airport, there is currently only charter service. Toledo Express Airport in Toledo, Ohio, is a secondary commercial passenger airport. Willow Run Airport, in far-western Wayne County near Ypsilanti is a general aviation and cargo airport.

Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ  4,039,182

Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia, WA CSA WA 3,991,911

Minneapolis-St. Paul-St. Cloud, MN-WI 3,502,891

San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA 2,941,454

Denver-Aurora-Boulder, CO 2,927,911

Cleveland-Akron-Elyria, OH 2,917,801

St. Louis-St. Charles-Farmington, MO-IL 2,858,549

Orlando-Deltona-Daytona Beach, FL 2,633,282

Pittsburgh-New Castle, PA 2,462,571

Sacramento-Arden-Arcade-Yuba City, CA-NV 2,373,596

Charlotte-Gastonia-Salisbury, NC-SC 2,191,604

Cincinnati-Middletown-Wilmington, OH-KY-IN 2,147,617

Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton, OR-WA 2,137,565

Kansas City-Overland Park-Kansas City, MO-KS 2,034,796

Indianapolis-Anderson-Columbus, IN 1,984,644

Columbus-Marion-Chillicothe, OH 1,953,575

San Antonio, TX 1,942,217

Las Vegas-Paradise-Pahrump, NV 1,820,232

Milwaukee-Racine-Waukesha, WI 1,706,077

Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC 1,649,457
3 airports serve the area: Norfolk International Airport, Newport News/Williamsburg International Airport

Salt Lake City-Ogden-Clearfield, UT 1,632,814

Providence-New Bedford-Fall River, RI-MA 1,612,989

Raleigh-Durham-Cary, NC 1,565,223

Nashville-Davidson-Murfreesboro-Columbia, TN 1,533,406

Greensboro-Winston-Salem-High Point, NC 1,513,576

Louisville-Jefferson County-Elizabethtown-Scottsburg, KY-IN 1,356,798

Grand Rapids-Muskegon-Holland, MI 1,320,487

Hartford-West Hartford-Willimantic, CT 1,305,713

Jacksonville, FL 1,277,997

Memphis, TN-MS-AR 1,274,704

Oklahoma City-Shawnee, OK 1,240,977

Buffalo-Niagara-Cattaraugus, NY 1,219,054

Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson, SC 1,203,795

Richmond, VA 1,194,008

Birmingham-Hoover-Cullman, AL 1,180,206

Albany-Schenectady-Amsterdam, NY 1,147,914

Rochester-Batavia-Seneca Falls, NY 1,128,989

Dayton-Springfield-Greenville, OH 1,073,513

New Orleans-Metairie-Bogalusa, LA 1,069,428

Fresno-Madera, CA 1,038,101

Honolulu, HI 909,863

Edited by Atlside, 26 August 2007 - 06:36 PM.

[maverick]

What that list of metro areas vs. airports doesn't account for is the population density.  That's the key.  The population density of the entire Atlanta metro area is far less than NYC, Boston, or Los Angeles.

No other airport is needed, and if it were done, it would be a small airport that would barely service the needs of people in Atlanta.

[yerocal]

deleted, please don't quote such long material

Yes I strongly Support the second airport in the Macon/MGA area, because this area is in need of the growth and renvue an airport would bring, also because of Macon centralize location and easy acces by 3 major interstates. The Middle Ga Regional Airport is a nice airport with large amount of land around it to expand and support the growth need for the airport and I_75 runns along the west side of the airport and Major 4 lane state highway 247 runs along the eastside which give perfect access to airport....

Edited by metro.m, 26 August 2007 - 04:05 PM.

[ironchapman]

Atlside, I would like to remind you that we do not allow the posting of entire articles here on UrbanPlanet. Please shorten what you have posted to just a couple of sentences from the article. I don't want to do that myself, but I will if you do not within a reasonable amount of time. Also, where did you get the stats on those airports?

EDIT: Thanks.

Just a short suggestion, yerocal, it's not mandatory, but unless it's all relevant to what you're posting, could you please delete all but the part of the quoted post that's relevant to what you're posting. It's a little annoying to have to scroll past all of it.

Anyways, on the issue discussed in the article, I would personally prefer having a second airport, should it be built at all, to be built somewhere in the Atlanta metro area. Having one in Macon, even with commuter rail connecting it to Atlanta, would still seem fairly inconvenient to me.

Anyways, I'm still not fully convinced I want a second major Atlanta airport.

[krazeeboi]

Building an airport isn't an overnight venture. By the time a location is chosen, plans are drafted, construction begins, and the project is completed, Atlanta could very well be on its way to almost 6 million+ in the metro area--a figure that I think warrants a second airport.

[Atlside]

 maverick, on Aug 24 2007, 01:34 PM, said:

What that list of metro areas vs. airports doesn't account for is the population density.  That's the key.  The population density of the entire Atlanta metro area is far less than NYC, Boston, or Los Angeles.

No other airport is needed, and if it were done, it would be a small airport that would barely service the needs of people in Atlanta.

Well, you know Houston, Dallas and Miami have more then one airport.

It would be great if Macon's airport could be the 2nd airport.

[yerocal]

 Atlside, on Aug 24 2007, 07:55 PM, said:

Well, you know Houston, Dallas and Miami have more then one airport.

It would be great if Macon's airport could be the 2nd airport.

I totally agree

[Spartan]

Atlanta needs another airport. New York's arrangement is really the ideal set up because you have airports all around the city and the volume is not concentrated around any one more than the other. London's solution to crowding at Heathrow was to build Gatwick International, which is a smaller (and better) airport IMO. Its way outside of the main urban area at this point, near Crawley. You can take the train in from Gatwick to the center of town. I think that how ever Atlanta chooses to tackle the situation, whether they parnter with Macon or whatever- a second airport is definitely warranted.

What about using Dobbins AFB? Didn't the latest round of BRAC close Dobbins?

What about expanding DeKalb-Peachtree in Chamblee?

[Lady Celeste]

There would be too much neighborhood resistance at both PDK and Dobbins to allow a second major airport. My feelings are to expand Gainesville Regional Airport for regional traffic, thus clearing Hartsfield-Jackson for longer range and international flights. PDK would make the most sense to me personally, but it is landlocked and neighborhood opposition could be a beast.

[yerocal]

 Spartan, on Aug 25 2007, 12:40 PM, said:

Atlanta needs another airport. New York's arrangement is really the ideal set up because you have airports all around the city and the volume is not concentrated around any one more than the other. London's solution to crowding at Heathrow was to build Gatwick International, which is a smaller (and better) airport IMO. Its way outside of the main urban area at this point, near Crawley. You can take the train in from Gatwick to the center of town. I think that how ever Atlanta chooses to tackle the situation, whether they parnter with Macon or whatever- a second airport is definitely warranted.

What about using Dobbins AFB? Didn't the latest round of BRAC close Dobbins?

What about expanding DeKalb-Peachtree in Chamblee?

Macon has made a lot preparations hoping that Middle Regional airport is chosen for the 2nd Airport; it has done a Multi-Million dollar renovations to the airport’s terminal and expanded runways, also they have hired TBI an Aviation managing company to manage the airport, which also manages the airport in Orlando and some divisions at Hartsfield. Also TBI is also helping to push for the airport in Macon, along with Macon/Bibb, City & county officials. Macon is really supporting and making great accommodations to help lean the decision to be Macon. Also they have renovated the DT terminal Station into a transportation head quarters that will house Greyhound, Macon City Buses and as passenger terminal for the proposed Atlanta- Macon commuter rail, also there is an existing rail line that will be used to commute passengers from the terminal to the airport.  There are plenty of land and distance enough not cause noise issue with residents, I-75 & 475 runs along the Westside of the airport and the big 4 lane highway 247(Macon-Warner Robin’s connector) runs along the east side which makes very easy access.   I think Macon would make a perfect location, because of huge land area to expand, fairly nice airport already exist which has been renovated, lots of parking and space to expand for parking, easy access from I-475, 75, 16 US 80 & 247. LESS TRAFFIC CHAOS LIKE ATLANTA.

[Lexy]

 Atlside, on Aug 24 2007, 08:55 PM, said:

Well, you know Houston, Dallas and Miami have more then one airport.

It would be great if Macon's airport could be the 2nd airport.

You have to keep in mind that these cities you mentioned once only had the one airport.  For example, Houston Hobby used to be THE airport for Houston until George Bush was built and Love Field USED to be the main Dallas-Fort Worth airport.  Atlanta hasn't got a "used to be main" airport.  They just have Hartsfield and PDK as the communter reliever.  Big difference there in relation to Atlanta's situation.

[Martinman]

 maverick, on Aug 24 2007, 01:34 PM, said:

What that list of metro areas vs. airports doesn't account for is the population density.  That's the key.  The population density of the entire Atlanta metro area is far less than NYC, Boston, or Los Angeles.

No other airport is needed, and if it were done, it would be a small airport that would barely service the needs of people in Atlanta.

How in the world does population density relate to the travel needs of a region?

OF COURSE Delta and probably Airtran are not going to be too excited about the idea because it most likely means more competition for them.  I think its a no brainer that a second airport is needed since there is only so much expansion that can be done to Hartsfield and its pretty crowded right now.  And as Krazee pointed out, by the time a second airport is operational the region will be even larger.

[yerocal]

 Martinman, on Aug 26 2007, 11:32 AM, said:

How in the world does population density relate to the travel needs of a region?

OF COURSE Delta and probably Airtran are not going to be too excited about the idea because it most likely means more competition for them.  I think its a no brainer that a second airport is needed since there is only so much expansion that can be done to Hartsfield and its pretty crowded right now.  And as Krazee pointed out, by the time a second airport is operational the region will be even larger.

I agree a second airport in definetly needed....

[johnatl]

Well, by the time a second airport opens most of us will be long gone. I just don't see it happening - BUT, if it does it will be north of I-20. Bet on it.

I know that Macon is really hungry for this, and some folks around Columbus have dreamed about this too. But trust me when I tell you, there is no way, no how that a second airport will be south of the city. Just     ain't      gonna     happen.

[Lexy]

 johnatl, on Aug 26 2007, 02:06 PM, said:

Well, by the time a second airport opens most of us will be long gone. I just don't see it happening - BUT, if it does it will be north of I-20. Bet on it.

I know that Macon is really hungry for this, and some folks around Columbus have dreamed about this too. But trust me when I tell you, there is no way, no how that a second airport will be south of the city. Just     ain't      gonna     happen.

Even though I doubt a second airport will happen in ATL, I do agree that if one was to happen it would be north of the city.

[yerocal]

 johnatl, on Aug 26 2007, 01:06 PM, said:

Well, by the time a second airport opens most of us will be long gone. I just don't see it happening - BUT, if it does it will be north of I-20. Bet on it.

I know that Macon is really hungry for this, and some folks around Columbus have dreamed about this too. But trust me when I tell you, there is no way, no how that a second airport will be south of the city. Just     ain't      gonna     happen.

I would say i doubt it or there is no way because Macon has been a big consideration from day one and Ga is really growing as a state and even if Macon doesn't get atlanta's 2nd airport they will eventually have one of there own because part of there plans are to grow there flights and passagers at their airport anyways.

[yerocal]

 Lexy, on Aug 26 2007, 02:54 PM, said:

Even though I doubt a second airport will happen in ATL, I do agree that if one was to happen it would be north of the city.

I'm sure there is going to be a 2nd airport because hartsfield is only so big and has only so much space to expand and it airport traffic is getting no lighter, there will eventually be a 2nd airport, the question is where?

[Lexy]

 yerocal, on Aug 26 2007, 04:48 PM, said:

I'm sure there is going to be a 2nd airport because hartsfield is only so big and has only so much space to expand and it airport traffic is getting no lighter, there will eventually be a 2nd airport, the question is where?

That's why they built a fifth runway.  That runway alone is considered one of the msot important pieces of asphalt in the world.  As long as they can spill departing and enroute traffic onto that runway when the need is there, expansion is a long way off at ATL.

[Alabadrock]

I think that if there was every any worry about putting ATL over capacity, they would improve and expand an airport in a city within about 100-250 miles.  Macon would be a good choice, Birmingham would be a much better one, Chattanooga maybe, Huntsville would probably be a close 2nd or 3rd.  

There's really no need to build a second airport in the metro, they'd just need to send come connecting flights to a different airport.  But, I don't think that would ever happen.  It'd be pretty disfunctional.  They have to either create a whole bunch of flights out of the expanded airport or virtually cut the traffic in ATL in half and send it to the newly expanded airport.  Neither of those would work in the favor of any airline.

[yerocal]

 Alabadrock, on Aug 26 2007, 04:16 PM, said:

I think that if there was every any worry about putting ATL over capacity, they would improve and expand an airport in a city within about 100-250 miles.  Macon would be a good choice, Birmingham would be a much better one, Chattanooga maybe, Huntsville would probably be a close 2nd or 3rd.  

There's really no need to build a second airport in the metro, they'd just need to send come connecting flights to a different airport.  But, I don't think that would ever happen.  It'd be pretty disfunctional.  They have to either create a whole bunch of flights out of the expanded airport or virtually cut the traffic in ATL in half and send it to the newly expanded airport.  Neither of those would work in the favor of any airline.

I agree defintely,Macon would be a good choice, i think the airport will happen its just that where is what i want to know, i'm hoping it's Macon....