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2nd Airport for metro Atlanta- Delta CEO says don't do it


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#21 Atlside

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 03:55 PM

Macon-Middle Georgia Regional Airport

The airport is located 91 miles south of Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.

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Of course if Dobbins Airforce base ever should close that could become Atlanta's 2nd Airport.
It can already handle large jets.

Air Force One takes off from Dobbins.
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The Airport could be renamed Dobbins/Atlanta Regional Airport

 

#22 CarolinaDaydreamin

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 03:42 PM

What about putting the airport in Jackson county or the Athens area? There is plenty of inexpensive land in an area that will be the outskirts of Atlanta by the time the airport would be finished. I don't know if Ben Epps Airport has enough land to become a large enough airport. Having the airport in Athens would bring the light rail that has been discussed for Athens for years.

#23 ScpNATL

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 09:47 PM

If commuter rail is part of the mix, then Chattanooga makes more sense.  Its north of the metro (closer to population using it), and it is extremely under utilized.  It also has an existing runway capable of landing the larger commercial jets (you should see it when flights get diverted there due to weather in ATL).  It would only need terminal space added on probably, but the terminal now is only about 10yrs old.  Macon might sound attractive, but if I was in the northern suburbs...why go to Macon when Hartsfield is closer

#24 RLucas83

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:56 AM

# 1 reason why it Wont be Macon is ATL is already south of most of the Atlanta metro area.. no one is going to drive past ATL to go to MCN, and people on the south side are very close to ATL, so why should they drive even further away?

A 2nd airport northwest of I-75 would kill Chatanooga, but as much as Chatanooga wishes, they are too far away to be the 2nd ATL airport.  Any new airport would have to be far enoguh away to not unleash the Delta/Airtran opposition, which is why MGE would have such a hard time ever happening. Personally  i think a jackson County location would make the most sense feasibility wise.

If no  2nd airport is built, improvements can be made at the peripheral airports and they can hopefulyl attract better service in the long run at places like Athens, Columbus and Macon.

The main problem with growing air service/airlines at these airports is that people are either loyal delta fliers or get sucked in to the lower fares in Atlanta.  it is very difficult to convince an airline liek delta to add flights out of CSG or MCN that bypass ATL, because their mentality is that if they dont provide the service, there is a 75% chance they will get the passengers anyways via ATL or another airport in the area.

What Georiga needs is an airline like usairways to step up and add flights to each go those cities to boost regional market share and gain frequent fliers from AHN, CSG and MCN.  growth in air service at those airports will allieviate much of the need for a 2nd ATL airport

#25 ATLman1

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 07:32 AM

Columbus is in the process of speaking with 2 airlines right now. I believe U.S. Airways is one of the two. An announcement should be made this fall. With the economic and population growth that Columbus is seeing compared to other GA metros, to me its a no-brainer to bring in more airlines to the city.

#26 j.midtown

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 12:45 PM

View PostRLucas83, on Sep 13 2007, 10:56 AM, said:

If no  2nd airport is built, improvements can be made at the peripheral airports and they can hopefulyl attract better service in the long run at places like Athens, Columbus and Macon.

The main problem with growing air service/airlines at these airports is that people are either loyal delta fliers or get sucked in to the lower fares in Atlanta.  it is very difficult to convince an airline liek delta to add flights out of CSG or MCN that bypass ATL, because their mentality is that if they dont provide the service, there is a 75% chance they will get the passengers anyways via ATL or another airport in the area.

What Georiga needs is an airline like usairways to step up and add flights to each go those cities to boost regional market share and gain frequent fliers from AHN, CSG and MCN.  growth in air service at those airports will allieviate much of the need for a 2nd ATL airport

It's a chicken-and-egg situation for those smaller airports; passengers won't choose to fly out of them until there is better service and lower fares, and airlines won't add routes to those airports unless they are profitable (i.e. unless there is sufficient demand).

Here's an example: this blogger travels often as a consultant and lives in Athens but would rather drive to ATL than fly from AHN, because of the lack of service and cost.

From the airlines' point of view, they are businesses and they will only fly profitable (or subsidized, thus profitable) routes, especially with the current status of the industry.

ATL's value derives from its size and status as a major hub; it's the network effect - the value for both the passenger and the airline is in the number of connections you can make.

#27 gthog61

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 04:27 PM

The problem is that while the 30+% of people who only transfer and aren't going to ATL sounds like a lot, I'll bet they are spread over all the flights, not equally probably but where probably 90% of the flights thru Atlanta have at least 20% of the pax with ATL as a final destination.  I was thinking maybe you could have a mini-hub at one of the outlying airports served by RJs to connect the smaller cities in the SE to each other but if you bleed off some pax from the ATL flights then you'd be hitting the airlines hard as they need the flights to be mostly full to make money.  The airlines could respond with smaller planes but then you'd just have about the same number of departures, just with smaller on average aircraft, so you wouldn't ease up on the capacity any.  Even if you build an airport north of the city it would still be inconvenient for someone passing through to connect via the two airports so it would need to generally service local traffic only.  That would also bleed off pax from the planes passing through Hartsfield.  At any rate it would be a very complex problem to coordinate the two airports, building one up from scratch, and also take a large amount of money and I could see why the Delta Prez wouldn't be terribly gung-ho about it.  PLaces like LA/Chicago/NY are a lot bigger final destination markets amd like someone else said places like Houston and Dallas already had the second airports from having moved out of them earlier.

I think the smaller city airports ringing ATL can grow but it is going to have to be from people wanting to go there as an end destination, not from transfers through them.

#28 j.midtown

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 03:14 PM

View Postgthog61, on Sep 30 2007, 06:27 PM, said:

The problem is that while the 30+% of people who only transfer and aren't going to ATL sounds like a lot, I'll bet they are spread over all the flights, not equally probably but where probably 90% of the flights thru Atlanta have at least 20% of the pax with ATL as a final destination.  I was thinking maybe you could have a mini-hub at one of the outlying airports served by RJs to connect the smaller cities in the SE to each other but if you bleed off some pax from the ATL flights then you'd be hitting the airlines hard as they need the flights to be mostly full to make money.  The airlines could respond with smaller planes but then you'd just have about the same number of departures, just with smaller on average aircraft, so you wouldn't ease up on the capacity any.  Even if you build an airport north of the city it would still be inconvenient for someone passing through to connect via the two airports so it would need to generally service local traffic only.  That would also bleed off pax from the planes passing through Hartsfield.  At any rate it would be a very complex problem to coordinate the two airports, building one up from scratch, and also take a large amount of money and I could see why the Delta Prez wouldn't be terribly gung-ho about it.  PLaces like LA/Chicago/NY are a lot bigger final destination markets amd like someone else said places like Houston and Dallas already had the second airports from having moved out of them earlier.

I think the smaller city airports ringing ATL can grow but it is going to have to be from people wanting to go there as an end destination, not from transfers through them.

You got the ratio reversed; only 30-40% of enplanements at ATL are origin and destination traffic. The O&D traffic for Atlanta should grow (in absolute numbers and probably percentage) as the metro continues to grow (which is part of why they're talking about a new airport now).

Neither Delta nor AirTran want another airport, because serving both would be very inefficient/costly for them and would represent an opening (threat) for new carriers to enter or existing carriers expand service to the market.  A new commercial airport (or expanded other airport) would likely only support domestic service (lower build costs) making it more attractive to a low-cost carrier than a legacy carrier. But if a second airport was on placed the north side, positioned to draw off some of the more affluent and frequent travelers, DL could hardly afford to ignore it. AirTran might be faced with a decision to move their entire ATL hub operation to a new airport (rather than operate from both) in order to fend off new low-cost carriers that might want to enter the market at a new facility (Southwest? the return of JetBlue?).

Point-to-point traffic outside the major cities in the southern US may change dramatically in the next few years as the new (and existing) air taxi services bring their new micro-jets online.  Companies such as DayJet and Imagine Air will offer seat-priced, on-demand flights from the smaller general aviation airports (PDK, McCullom, Briscoe, Charlie Brown) using fuel-efficient very light jets that could siphon a lot of regional business traffic from commercial carriers.  The pricing will supposedly be a small premium on a full-fare coach ticket on a commercial carrier. Already, just using a turboprop, Wings Air has been offering a gameday shuttle for only $89 from PDK to Athens Ben Epps.  They also just announced their intent to provide shuttle service from Briscoe to ATL including TSA security clearance at Briscoe.

#29 j.midtown

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 03:22 PM

Believe it or not, but when I posted my microjet/air taxi comments above I had not seen the article that appeared in the AJC business section Friday.  'Very light jets' set to transform industry

#30 j.midtown

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 04:32 PM

Continuing problems for Macon Airport discussed in this Macon.com article. Coincidentally, an article about small airport subsidies (with a mention of Macon and Athens) appeared the same day in the USA Today.

#31 RealMadrid

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 11:40 PM

That would be the new SouthWest hub of the southeast...

Can you blame the CEO for opposing competition?

Edited by RealMadrid, 05 January 2008 - 11:41 PM.


#32 j.midtown

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 01:50 PM

From an AJC article, Gwinnett County continues to take steps to privatize Briscoe Field and open it to commercial operations. It may yet become the second commercial airport for Atlanta. In the past, neighborhood opposition has stopped it, but as local governments search for anyway to bring in more revenue and development, those considerations may outweigh resident opinion.

The article states Briscoe might support 20 flights a day. This could provide Southwest's long-desired entry to the market. It would also be a good location for US Airways, being just a short hop to their Charlotte hub. Actually, most any of Delta's competitors would probably love the chance that a northside airport would provide to siphon off flyers who live in the northern metro counties.




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