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Park Avenue


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#1 skirby

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 07:40 PM

KTHV-TV 11 reports that the University Mall has been sold. Strode Property of Dallas will redevelop the property into Park Avenue, an open-air lifestyle center. Strode is also developer of Midtowne. Simon will not be involved.

 

#2 turboturtle

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 08:14 PM

KTHV-TV 11 reports that the University Mall has been sold. Strode Property of Dallas will redevelop the property into Park Avenue, an open-air lifestyle center. Strode is also developer of Midtowne. Simon will not be involved.


This is awesome! I hoped this is what would happen.

#3 Architect

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 10:58 PM

KTHV-TV 11 reports that the University Mall has been sold. Strode Property of Dallas will redevelop the property into Park Avenue, an open-air lifestyle center. Strode is also developer of Midtowne. Simon will not be involved.

Awesome...fantastic news!!! (This isn't April 1 is it?) If true, its too bad that this didn't happen earlier before Chenal Promenade took off. However, truth be told that Chenal Promenade is replicating many of the tenants from Park Plaza to represent second or third locations in the market, and the proximity of "Park Avenue" wouldn't be pulling those retailers anyway.

So, considering the adjacent Park Plaza and Mid Town (both arguably the highest end developments in the state), how does everyone expect this to shape up? I'm expecting a more urban adaption of a mid-tier, mixed-use "Power Center" (like a more sophisticated Shackelford Crossing) - with Target and larger, mid-range retailers so noticable absent from the mid-town area.

Great news indeed...(makes me wonder however how Mid Town will fare and/or how they will position it b/c of proximity and its relatively small size/scale)

p.s. The article on Fox 16's website is by far the most exhaustive and informative...wasn't sure if its proper to directly paste the text here. See:
http://www.fox16.com...db-473f30eaee54

#4 turboturtle

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Posted 29 September 2007 - 12:22 PM

So, considering the adjacent Park Plaza and Mid Town (both arguably the highest end developments in the state), how does everyone expect this to shape up?

I'm expecting a more urban adaption of a mid-tier, mixed-use "Power Center" (like a more sophisticated Shackelford Crossing) - with Target and larger, mid-range retailers so noticable absent from the mid-town area.



I expect this to shape up with a relatively close adhereance to the Midtown Overlay District guidelines passed by the City which includes the future Park Avenue parcel of land. It allows for zero set back, which gives that urban look and feel. I don't believe the overlay district was passed when Strode built Midtowne, though much of it had been written. Ron Tabor, who was working for Strode at that time, made a specific request to not get as detailed as what facade material should be used. He argued that that type of decision is best left to the developer or there is a likelihood of scaring them off because development would be perceived as too restrictive. That said, I think the Midtowne development fit the design criteria that the overlay district was shooting for.

I expect to see some multi-family (condos, apartments or both). Midtown needs population to be on the increase. The 72205 ZIP code has had a declining and aging population for more than a decade. Target commented that the demographics support a 'P' store like in Chenal. Also, that it is not economically feasible to support a two-story store. I translate that to mean, no Super Target will be developed in midtown. That is a disappointment.

I expect to see a movie theater. I think this is the most speculative because it seems that all the new movie theaters are huge. A huge movie theater would be out of scale with what the scale of the development should be. The scale of future developmen was a key issue with the ULI study in 2000. It was also incorporated into the Midtowne development.

As far as additional retail, I expect to see Target. Perhaps Strode can get Wild Oats/Whole Foods to consider this area. The fact that Strode was working on buying the University Mall could be an explanation as to why we're getting the Container Store in Midtowne instead of the Wild Oats/Whole Foods. If we get a Wild Oats/Whole Foods, it would more that make-up for not getting a Super Target. There should be many new restaraunts. I'll guess 8 to 10. There will be some other retail, but I don't expect much. A Borders/Barnes and Noble and a Hardware store would be nice.

I expect a lot more office space. I think the medical community needs it.

Great news indeed...(makes me wonder however how Mid Town will fare and/or how they will position it b/c of proximity and its relatively small size/scale)


I think Park Avenue will ensure Midtowne and Park Plaza will thrive. Strode will have the ability to choose tenants that will not compete with Midtowne. All of the items I mention above have been desired in midtown for years. I think these would all help support the existing retail.

Strode might be the guy who makes a walk bridge over University and Markham a reality.

Edited by turboturtle, 29 September 2007 - 04:53 PM.


#5 Aporkalypse

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 11:11 PM

I mentioned several times on here in the past that I would love to see Strode involved with any redevelopment of University Mall. I hadn't heard any rumors to that effect, this is as big a surprise to me as anyone. However, this is THE best case scenario. Strode is perfect for this project.

Most of you know I spent a few years in Dallas. I got to see several of Strode's projects. Mockingbird Station was an award-winning project in the heart of Dallas that incorporated a light rail station with a art theatre called Angelika, retail and restaurants, a gym, some offices and a considerable number of loft apartments. The main buildings have ground-level retail topped by 3 stories worth of lofts. They have done many similar types of projects.

The reason I'm excited is that Strode can do mixed use, they've made a point to do a good job of it in the past with really striking urban redevelopment. I'd love to see 2-3 stories of lofts atop the retail in this project.

Clearly Strode must consider Midtown a glaring success if they are interested in doing something like this, they can see the potential we all see for the area.

Strode almost always uses UCR (United Commercial Realty), a company that manages many of the top projects in Dallas including Southlake Town Centre and in fact the majority of new construction in the metroplex over the last decade. They can get the tenants we want, the Cheesecake Factories, Macy's, etc everyone here has been clamoring for.

The best thing is demolition will start as soon as the tenants are out, no later than 2 mos with a planned 2009 opening.

I can't wait to see how this pans out.

#6 Architect

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 07:56 AM

I mentioned several times on here in the past that I would love to see Strode involved with any redevelopment of University Mall. I hadn't heard any rumors to that effect, this is as big a surprise to me as anyone. However, this is THE best case scenario. Strode is perfect for this project.

Most of you know I spent a few years in Dallas. I got to see several of Strode's projects. Mockingbird Station was an award-winning project in the heart of Dallas that incorporated a light rail station with a art theatre called Angelika, retail and restaurants, a gym, some offices and a considerable number of loft apartments. The main buildings have ground-level retail topped by 3 stories worth of lofts. They have done many similar types of projects.

The reason I'm excited is that Strode can do mixed use, they've made a point to do a good job of it in the past with really striking urban redevelopment. I'd love to see 2-3 stories of lofts atop the retail in this project.

Clearly Strode must consider Midtown a glaring success if they are interested in doing something like this, they can see the potential we all see for the area.

Strode almost always uses UCR (United Commercial Realty), a company that manages many of the top projects in Dallas including Southlake Town Centre and in fact the majority of new construction in the metroplex over the last decade. They can get the tenants we want, the Cheesecake Factories, Macy's, etc everyone here has been clamoring for.

The best thing is demolition will start as soon as the tenants are out, no later than 2 mos with a planned 2009 opening.

I can't wait to see how this pans out.

That's GREAT to hear Aporkalypse...thanks for giving us insight into their potential. I agree, and failed to mention earlier, that incorporation of mixed-use - particularly higher density 2-3 story buildings with office/residential above - would be ideal, and I'm glad to know that they not only push that, but have been successful in the past. I trust that they feel the market would support that type of development. I also agree that their participation completely validates their success with Midtown and shows the confidence they have for the market.

#7 Hyacinth

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 09:46 AM

It must be Christmas!!!

I was thrilled to find that Strode will be redeveloping the Univeristy Mall site. I'm sure there will be a Target and a bookstore of some sort, preferrably Borders. This excites me to no end. This is just what Midtown needs.

#8 Aporkalypse

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 11:29 AM

That's GREAT to hear Aporkalypse...thanks for giving us insight into their potential. I agree, and failed to mention earlier, that incorporation of mixed-use - particularly higher density 2-3 story buildings with office/residential above - would be ideal, and I'm glad to know that they not only push that, but have been successful in the past. I trust that they feel the market would support that type of development. I also agree that their participation completely validates their success with Midtown and shows the confidence they have for the market.



Well, I was wrong about Strode doing Mockingbird Station, that was a different group. The main projects I found that he did recently were kind of typical big box "power centers" - Weatherford Marketplace and South Frisco Village. That said, that's what fit those locations.

I was thinking of UCR, the company that represented Strode for Midtowne and hopefully will do the same for Park Avenue. They've had their hands on nearly every major urban redevelopment project in Dallas and have tremendous tenant connections, which is how they pulled off getting in the Container Store in a pinch.

If Strode wants a large lifestyle center component it's because they know there's demand there, they've already gauged it during recruitment of tenants for Midtown. Of course, they could be using "lifestyle center" as more of a catchphrase and this will be more of a power center.

Target's a wild card. They want to own the site rather than lease and they basically said there's no way they'd go multistory. However, there is now a much better negotiating platform to work from as there is a time frame in place for this to be built. A traditional Target store would eat up a ton of expensive real estate and more importantly parking. Of course that would make the rest of the development more dense.

Will Bennigan's and B of A be purchased as well to increase the footprint of the development and more importantly the frontage on University? It seems like a smart thing to do. If this is really a first class development this could become a prime restaurant pad. I'm hoping this will really bring more restaurants to the central portion of town. 5-6 upscale restaurants including a steakhouse such as Sullivan's, Fleming's, or Ruth's Chris, Cantina Laredo and let me hope a Cheesecake Factory would just fit so well at that location.

I don't think of this as a "mall" at all but would Macy's look at being an anchor tenant if Target doesn't? Will there be enough smaller shops and restaurants to make it attractive? That would really help cement the Midtown Area as the state's premium shopping area.

I hope that office space, parking, and residential will be "stacked" on ground level retail. That would let Strode get the most out of the space.

#9 turboturtle

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 12:01 PM

Will Bennigan's and B of A be purchased as well to increase the footprint of the development and more importantly the frontage on University? It seems like a smart thing to do. If this is really a first class development this could become a prime restaurant pad. I'm hoping this will really bring more restaurants to the central portion of town. 5-6 upscale restaurants including a steakhouse such as Sullivan's, Fleming's, or Ruth's Chris, Cantina Laredo and let me hope a Cheesecake Factory would just fit so well at that location.

I don't think of this as a "mall" at all but would Macy's look at being an anchor tenant if Target doesn't? Will there be enough smaller shops and restaurants to make it attractive? That would really help cement the Midtown Area as the state's premium shopping area.

I hope that office space, parking, and residential will be "stacked" on ground level retail. That would let Strode get the most out of the space.


Strode owns the Bank of America site already.. I also think he owns the property where the new Chik-Fil-A sits. That was sold to a group whose name was very similar (but not the same) as the company that bought the BOA site... I saw Strode's name attached to the company that bought the BOA site. Also there is an IRWIN Partners sign in front of the bank building.

Here is the link the 'Statement of Design and Programing Expectations' to help guide development decisions within the Midtown Redevelopment District #1 http://littlerock.or...t-UnivMall2.pdf. It has some pretty specific expectations. I am curious to see how much the actual development meets these expectations. If the project meets many of these expectations, then I think it bodes well for other areas of the City. This area of the City has been under the microscope with a lot of thought and planning. With the exception of the River Market District, this is a departure for the normal City planning pattern.

Edited by turboturtle, 01 October 2007 - 12:02 PM.


#10 Aporkalypse

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 12:25 PM

Strode owns the Bank of America site already.. I also think he owns the property where the new Chik-Fil-A sits. That was sold to a group whose name was very similar (but not the same) as the company that bought the BOA site... I saw Strode's name attached to the company that bought the BOA site. Also there is an IRWIN Partners sign in front of the bank building.

Here is the link the 'Statement of Design and Programing Expectations' to help guide development decisions within the Midtown Redevelopment District #1 http://littlerock.or...t-UnivMall2.pdf. It has some pretty specific expectations. I am curious to see how much the actual development meets these expectations. If the project meets many of these expectations, then I think it bodes well for other areas of the City. This area of the City has been under the microscope with a lot of thought and planning. With the exception of the River Market District, this is a departure for the normal City planning pattern.



True, but while the city is very specific about what it wants from the University site it hasn't really done anything else to plan the remainder of the "Midtown District". Shouldn't there be some sort of development guidelines (+/- incentives) within a set of boundaries for the "district" as a whole? A common decorative theme?


Has anyone heard anything lately about the plans for War Memorial Park?

#11 cocothief

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 02:05 PM

Strode is quality. I have also seen Mockingbird Station. One of the finest mixed use infills in the country.

Very good news for midtown LR.

#12 turboturtle

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 03:05 PM

True, but while the city is very specific about what it wants from the University site it hasn't really done anything else to plan the remainder of the "Midtown District". Shouldn't there be some sort of development guidelines (+/- incentives) within a set of boundaries for the "district" as a whole? A common decorative theme?
Has anyone heard anything lately about the plans for War Memorial Park?


There is an design overlay district that has a defined set of boundaries. It was created when the City created the Midtown Redevelopment District #1 Advisory Board. In addition to the University Mall property it includes everything south of that site to I630. it also includes a long narrow strip that goes down Markham to Pine St. The Northern boundary goes to C St. There is a PDF on the City's web site that shows all the overlay districts in the City.

As far as a common decorative theme, it is been considered too restrictive to attract developers. Architect may be able to add more texture to this.

The City is holding a public meeting on War Memorial Park, October 9 at the Jim Dailey Fitness Center. It is in the evening, but I don't recall the start time.... I will be in class.

Edited by turboturtle, 01 October 2007 - 03:06 PM.


#13 cocothief

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 04:12 PM

As far as a common decorative theme, it is been considered too restrictive to attract developers. Architect may be able to add more texture to this.


Hum... even something like revamping the streetscape like what is being done in Fayetteville around Dickson and the intersecting streets? Decorative lighting elements, improved pedestrian environment, etc?

#14 Aporkalypse

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 04:30 PM

Hum... even something like revamping the streetscape like what is being done in Fayetteville around Dickson and the intersecting streets? Decorative lighting elements, improved pedestrian environment, etc?


That's what I was thinking as well.


Of course some of this may happen when the city finishes rebuilding University. I don't like the blocks they are using to build the retaining wall by St Vincent's and the golf course, though.


I don't know how many of these touches will be put in once the widening is complete but I was hoping for new lighting, street signs, etc.

#15 turboturtle

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 06:19 PM

That's what I was thinking as well.
Of course some of this may happen when the city finishes rebuilding University. I don't like the blocks they are using to build the retaining wall by St Vincent's and the golf course, though.
I don't know how many of these touches will be put in once the widening is complete but I was hoping for new lighting, street signs, etc.




The Overlay District for Development Standards

Another recommendation of the ULI study was to create a unique set of design and development standards for the Midtown District. The Planning Commission and the planning staff tackled this job in 2003 and crafted an ordinance whose purpose was to create in Midtown:

"... a quality, vital atmosphere for businesses (commercial or office) and residents. Buildings, parking
areas, signage, landscaping and street furnishings should all be designed to complement and
encourage pedestrian use both day and evening."

Although the overlay standards are general in nature, they are crafted to encourage:

* Attractive and usable pedestrian routes in public right-of-ways
* Parking accommodated in small lots or in structures
* Underground utilities
* Shallow set-backs consistent with urban areas
* Buildings with interesting entries, wall articulations and roof lines -- in other words, no faceless big boxes
* Rich landscaping
* Signage and lighting controls

#16 cozmosis

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 08:39 PM

That's what I was thinking as well.
Of course some of this may happen when the city finishes rebuilding University. I don't like the blocks they are using to build the retaining wall by St Vincent's and the golf course, though.
I don't know how many of these touches will be put in once the widening is complete but I was hoping for new lighting, street signs, etc.


I agree. They took out stone and replaced it with landscaping blocks. Certainly, I was disappointed. Of course, the retaining wall is twice the size of the old one (if not larger)... So I'm sure cost was as issue -- as it is with everything these days. I hope to see improved lighting, traffic light standards, etc. once the project is complete. Regardless of what they use, it'll be nice to have the utility wires buried.

#17 theman

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 11:40 PM

I mentioned several times on here in the past that I would love to see Strode involved with any redevelopment of University Mall. I hadn't heard any rumors to that effect, this is as big a surprise to me as anyone. However, this is THE best case scenario. Strode is perfect for this project.

Most of you know I spent a few years in Dallas. I got to see several of Strode's projects. Mockingbird Station was an award-winning project in the heart of Dallas that incorporated a light rail station with a art theatre called Angelika, retail and restaurants, a gym, some offices and a considerable number of loft apartments. The main buildings have ground-level retail topped by 3 stories worth of lofts. They have done many similar types of projects.

The reason I'm excited is that Strode can do mixed use, they've made a point to do a good job of it in the past with really striking urban redevelopment. I'd love to see 2-3 stories of lofts atop the retail in this project.

Clearly Strode must consider Midtown a glaring success if they are interested in doing something like this, they can see the potential we all see for the area.

Strode almost always uses UCR (United Commercial Realty), a company that manages many of the top projects in Dallas including Southlake Town Centre and in fact the majority of new construction in the metroplex over the last decade. They can get the tenants we want, the Cheesecake Factories, Macy's, etc everyone here has been clamoring for.

The best thing is demolition will start as soon as the tenants are out, no later than 2 mos with a planned 2009 opening.

I can't wait to see how this pans out.


If Target is the main tennant for Park Avenue I see other tenants like Barnes & Noble/Borders, Old Navy, Pier 1, Staples/Office Depot, etc. with some of the restaurants that have been mentioned before and Johnny Rockets, Red Robin, Buffalo Wild Wing and Panera for example.

#18 Aporkalypse

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Posted 02 October 2007 - 09:36 AM

The Overlay District for Development Standards

Another recommendation of the ULI study was to create a unique set of design and development standards for the Midtown District. The Planning Commission and the planning staff tackled this job in 2003 and crafted an ordinance whose purpose was to create in Midtown:

"... a quality, vital atmosphere for businesses (commercial or office) and residents. Buildings, parking
areas, signage, landscaping and street furnishings should all be designed to complement and
encourage pedestrian use both day and evening."

Although the overlay standards are general in nature, they are crafted to encourage:

* Attractive and usable pedestrian routes in public right-of-ways
* Parking accommodated in small lots or in structures
* Underground utilities
* Shallow set-backs consistent with urban areas
* Buildings with interesting entries, wall articulations and roof lines -- in other words, no faceless big boxes
* Rich landscaping
* Signage and lighting controls



I agree, those are a bit too general. For example, what are the signage and lighting controls? That has to be specified.

#19 Aporkalypse

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Posted 02 October 2007 - 09:39 AM

If Target is the main tennant for Park Avenue I see other tenants like Barnes & Noble/Borders, Old Navy, Pier 1, Staples/Office Depot, etc. with some of the restaurants that have been mentioned before and Johnny Rockets, Red Robin, Buffalo Wild Wing and Panera for example.


If that is the case this will not at all be a "lifestyle center". Furthermore, putting in large box tenants will allow for little multistory development and far less rent per SF of real estate. I can't see this type of development paying off the investment Strode had to pay to buy the mall property and the mall and the cost of demolition.

I could be wrong but I would be surprised if that is the direction of this development.

#20 turboturtle

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Posted 02 October 2007 - 10:25 AM

I agree, those are a bit too general. For example, what are the signage and lighting controls? That has to be specified.


Both signage and lighting guidelines were loosened as a result of Strode's Midtowne redevelopment. The reason why there is no sign on the south side of the Starbucks and the north side of Pei Wei is because of the overlay district. In addition, the tall rectangular signs that list the tenants are the max size signage according to the overlay. I beleive they watered down the signage criteria because of the dissatisfaction (not sure if it is Strode, the tenants or both) with the signage at Midtowne.

A similar scenario played out with lighting, the original overlay was more detailed. I learned more about lighting than I cared to know. Fortunately, I've forgotten most. But, it was originally more specific and the powers that be saw it as an improvement ot reduce the detail.

Those bullet points are general because they are at the beginning of the document in sorta an overview. The document references with images several models that meet the design criteria of the Midtown Overlay District. There Rogers development is one of them. There are three or four in addition to Rogers. I think they are representative of what you've described in the forum. Park Avenue may not be as upscale as you are hoping for, though the name suggests otherwise.

Edited by turboturtle, 02 October 2007 - 10:31 AM.





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