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38 Commerce Development


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349 replies to this topic

#41 Raildudes dad

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 07:02 PM

What's the limiting factor on parking ramp life? Is it exposure, or are they just more cheaply constructed due to their function? Since concrete continues curing for along time I'd think a ramp would get stronger with age, at least for a while. Though, why was the Division and Fulton ramp torn down? I thought it was because of structural issues.


Winter salt (sodium chloride) / pellet deicers (calcium chloride) are really hard on the ramps. The newer ones seem to be more corrosion resistant but it's still hard on them. Security wise, I question the placing of the ramps under occupied structures or connected to occupied structures. I would think terrorism awareness should dictate separate parking structures.

 

#42 tSlater

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 07:28 PM

There are condos built all the time with parking structures making up the bottom floors. The hotel proposed for Monroe North has parking on the first few levels. There's parking beneath the Calder. The first level of Icon on Bond is parking.

How is this any different?

#43 GRDadof3

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 07:38 PM

There are condos built all the time with parking structures making up the bottom floors. The hotel proposed for Monroe North has parking on the first few levels. There's parking beneath the Calder. The first level of Icon on Bond is parking.

How is this any different?


The new Freedom Tower and revived World Trade Center complex will have underground parking underneath it. :dontknow:

#44 tSlater

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 08:38 PM

With that said, then I'm pretty sure that the life-span of ordinary parking garages may not be an issue here. Considering the implementation of them in all the buildings mentioned above, I'm fairly certain these will all have long lifespans, or perhaps a means of maintenance without complete rebuilding. There's no way they'd take down these buildings after 15 years just for parking ramp reasons.

#45 Grandrapidsne

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 09:06 PM

Couldn't these parking ramps ovetime serve for other purposes when we perhaps get light rail and the car is not the sole mode of transportation? Like conversion into office buildings or something.

#46 Raildudes dad

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 09:26 PM

There are condos built all the time with parking structures making up the bottom floors. The hotel proposed for Monroe North has parking on the first few levels. There's parking beneath the Calder. The first level of Icon on Bond is parking.

How is this any different?


It's not for most of them. Now that unstable people realize you can take a van filled with an-fo into an underground ramp and make a big bang, I wouldn't personally design an occupied building over a parking ramp. Parking under Calder Plaza is under the plaza, not the buildings. An explosion can't take out the building support columns there.

Couldn't these parking ramps ovetime serve for other purposes when we perhaps get light rail and the car is not the sole mode of transportation? Like conversion into office buildings or something.


Tough to convert them into office or retail with the sloping floors (most incorporate the ramps into the entire floor or at least a portion of the floor.)

#47 tSlater

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 09:27 PM

I'm refering more to longevity of ramps, rather than terrorism potential. After all, nothing will ever be completely terror-proof. We will always find ways to prevent it, and people will always find ways around those preventions. Such is the cycle of life.

#48 Raildudes dad

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 09:41 PM

I'm refering more to longevity of ramps, rather than terrorism potential. After all, nothing will ever be completely terror-proof. We will always find ways to prevent it, and people will always find ways around those preventions. Such is the cycle of life.


Condo parking is usually just the residents, a couple in / outs a day. Commercial ramps are in / out all day long every day just dragging in salts off the streets. Calder Plaza ramp has been repaired numerous times. This summer they were doing fairly extensive repairs to the one by the days Inn and that one's not all that old :(

I'm not saying terror proof, rather security conscious. No one thought about someone setting of a van full of explosives in the WTC, or in front of a federal building. It was unbelievable that someone would fly two planes into the WTC and 1 into the Pentagon. All it would take is someone with a grudge against someone in a building with offices above to do the same thing. Like I said, if I was an architect, I would NOT put occupied building above a parking ramp. It just appears to be the prudent thing to do to me.

It just floors me that this town just keeps building ramp after ramp with absolutely no discussion about commuter rail into the downtown. (Sorry the BRT and the 2.4 mile streetcar don't do a thing for me :( ).

#49 numstead

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 10:28 PM

Couldn't these parking ramps ovetime serve for other purposes when we perhaps get light rail and the car is not the sole mode of transportation? Like conversion into office buildings or something.


good luck converting a double helix parking structure with 7% slopes into anything else.

#50 Avocado

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Posted 09 November 2007 - 12:34 PM

Hopefully future developments follow similar plans.

Do special steps need to be taken for ventilation on a fully enclosed parking ramp?

#51 numstead

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Posted 10 November 2007 - 12:01 AM

Do special steps need to be taken for ventilation on a fully enclosed parking ramp?


yes, mechanical ventilation is required, and its adds a lot of extra cost to the project. this project isn't fully enclosed and we were doing everything we could to not have to have mechanical ventilation.

#52 GRDadof3

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Posted 11 November 2007 - 10:46 PM

Development details are on the DDA agenda packet for this week:

http://www.ci.grand-...3d22749e05f.pdf

#53 GRDadof3

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 08:37 AM

Here's a little site plan sketch of the Tall House site with a similar ramp/ring development around it. The Tall House site is just a little shallower than the Commerce site (by 10'), so it might require getting either an easement on the back side to allow for more room, or maybe get an "air easement" on the upper floors to fill them out a little more. A 20' deep condominium makes it a bit challenging to lay out the floorplan.

Posted Image

Maybe I'll send this to George and Mary. Now they would only have to sell about 20 - 25 condos (depending on size) instead of 70, and they could sell the office portion as condo to another developer/broker. And the city gets 300+ more parking spaces right next door to the arena and for Ionia.

#54 metrogrkid

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 02:04 PM

Couldn't these parking ramps ovetime serve for other purposes when we perhaps get light rail and the car is not the sole mode of transportation? Like conversion into office buildings or something.


. . . . or converted over to a station for the future bus rapid transit/light-rail . . . .

#55 GRDadof3

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 05:57 PM

Downtown parking and "liner" building get nod

Approved by the DDA and Parking Commission. Next stop, HPC (which has already verbalized support for tearing down 38 Commerce). Then on to the City Commission and the Brownfield Redevelopment Authority (state level).

#56 DwntwnGeo

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 02:04 PM

The Grand Rapids City Commission has given it's approval. What is next before they can move on to construction?

"City Commissioners Tuesday gave their blessings to what a developer called "a new, hip concept" that will combines a major new parking ramp with offices, stores and condominiums."

"Developer Andy Winkel says "there's a lot of interest already" in the condos."

"She (Pam Ritsema) told city commissioners the project would "help drive redevelopment of the neighborhood...I'm confident it will be profitable."



The complete article can be read on WZZM.
GR Commission gives support

#57 Veloise

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 02:40 PM

The Grand Rapids City Commission has given it's approval. What is next before they can move on to construction?
...

Bidding the job and hiring contractors.

#58 MAU

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 03:11 PM

The Grand Rapids City Commission has given it's approval. What is next before they can move on to construction?

Probably rework the drawings because their current plans are not going to work.

#59 GRDadof3

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 03:27 PM

Probably rework the drawings because their current plans are not going to work.


Why, what's wrong with them?

I think they said the next step was HPC approval for demolition of the existing building? Edit: scratch that, I just reread their timeline and there are a lot of steps involved before they hope to break ground November 08. But the fact that the city is on board with this "concept" is one huge step.

#60 fotoman311

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 04:14 PM

good luck converting a double helix parking structure with 7% slopes into anything else.


I think a 7% grade would be great to get some exercise for office slaves who sit on their butts all day. Nothing like the walk up the hill to the boss's office. :) Just don't drop your pencil in the middle aisle.




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