880 replies to this topic

[The Escapists]

The existing tracks are in real disrepair: gravel, grass covering whole sections. They'd have a lot of work to get them ready for anything to run on them...

[nonillogical]

As cool as it would be, I really see it as being laughable fuel for anti-transit people if the starter line only goes from Celadon to Cedar st. Some missing sections of track would need to be restored/extended to make this worthwhile. I think it NEEDS to go into uptown more, but I'm not sure if tracks could handle the incline where the greenway goes under the railroad tracks at BofA Stadium and rises to Graham, or if they can run it through the Hartigans parking lot in the first place.

[southslider]

Maybe turn at Cedar and serve as a spur off Center City Streetcar, connecting in Gateway Village via West Trade Street.  Of course, the West Corridor is already planned to someday spur off West Trade at Cedar Street, but that is to head to Wilkinson Boulevard via West Morehead Street.

Alternatively, maybe spur off West Trade Street via Wesley Heights Way to Celadon.  The distance between Celadon and West Trade appears to be a lot less than Hartigan's and West Trade.  Still, I suppose this alternative would depend on whether the next phase of streetcar even reaches the Historic West End, for it may just barely make it to Gateway Village.

Edited by southslider, 04 November 2011 - 08:40 AM.

[norm21499]

Article in the Charlotte Observer discussing how the city might finance the red line. To sum up the article, the city might look at allowing light industrial development along the line to help pay for it. Thoughts?

http://www.charlotte...e-possible.html

[The Escapists]

This is basically an industrial-TIF, right? I mean, the hope was that places like Briton Development and Mount Mourne would generate tax increments to finance the line. Now that residential development can't help, why not explore industrial projects? But I wonder how "small" industrial projects might afford infrastructure for a freight train. Seems like "small" might be a misnomer.  

Here is an article exploring how European cities are using the inner city trams to also transport goods. Think about how congested the roads are on I-77 @ Lake Norman and it's adjoining exits are (there is a Target and Harris Teeter at every exit for 6 straight exits). Surely decreased freight over road could help. But how do you transfer from the rail to their loading docks?
http://www.thetransp...ly-coordinated/

[southslider]

^^IMHO, the new approach for Red Line has two huge pros:

1) The value capture on industrial development, as well as TOD, means the full corridor helps fund the line, not just station areas.

2) Iredell County is more likely to support a project that not only adds commuter rail to Mooresville, but also freight rail to Statesville.

[caterpillar2]

It seems as if CATs and the city of Charlotte are willing to pay for half of the project if the towns on the line will pay the rest. It is definately looking more positive every day.

[kermit]

While extending the route to Statesville is a good idea have they said how they will do it? The existing route via Barber Junction is not direct enough for commuter service (although it would be fine -- perhaps better -- for freight). The old route direct from Moresville has been torn up from Mazeppa road to downtown Troutman. It looks like the ROW is _mostly_ intact but it does not appear to be owned by the state. Any idea who has possession of the route and which path they plan to use?

The outline of the route issue can be seen here: http://www.bytrain.o..._railmap_10.pdf

[southslider]

^I'm pretty sure Statesville-bound trains would be just freight, not commuters.  Lowe's distribution center is in Statesville.  Lowe's corporate is in Mount Mourne.  The Red Line upgrades would also be limited south of Mooresville to Charlotte.  But as shared tracks, freight going beyond Mooresville would still benefit.

[kermit]

It looks like applications for TIGER III have gone out, the Dept of Trans says that they will determine recipients before the end of the year.

Has anyone heard about any local applications?

EDIT: Well I found one local application "Racing to Charlotte: A Regional Greenway-Bikeway-Transit Network"
http://charmeck.org/...182011-23d-.pdf

Edited by kermit, 16 November 2011 - 11:14 AM.

[kermit]

Discussion of the newly proposed red line freight / pax financing strategy made it into the Transportation Politic:
www.thetransportpolitic.com/2011/12/05/innovative-financing-points-the-way-ahead-for-a-rail-project-in-charlotte/

[dubone]

While the Carolina Thread Trail is a worthwhile endeavor, it is a shame we didn't put forth any other projects for TIGER III.

[kermit]

There is an interesting interview with Peter Rogoff (head of the Federal Transit Administration) about Charlotte transit at the Business Journal. While the interview touches on the Federal view on most aspects of Charlotte rail transit there is not much new ground broken by the piece.

http://www.bizjourna...du_pub&page=all

[kermit]

TIGER 4 grant applications are due on Feb 20. http://www.dot.gov/a...12/dot1312.html

What should CATS reasonably ask for next? Its our last chance to lever the DNC.....

[tozmervo]

Something I'd always been interested in knowing, how the bus routes rank in ridership, showed up in the latest MTC agenda.
http://charmeck.org/...ry 25, 2012.pdf page 20.

[dubone]

Looks like the Gold Rush crushes all the other routes.

[tozmervo]

Top 10:
Gold Rush Red Line
Central Ave
Randolph Rd
Gold Rush Orange Line
Eastway
Beatties Ford
N Tryon
Shamrock Dr
Kings Dr
Providence Rd

Bottom 5:
All three Villiage Riders
Concord Mills Express (which only runs on Saturday)
Westinghouse Blvd (which only has three trips a day)

[kermit]

Mary Newsome has discusses a Charlotte City Council memo which describes how some of the Red line special tax district money will be distributed. http://nakedcityblog...tm_medium=email

The memo suggests that the special tax district revenue collected around Gateway Station (not the northern portions of the line) should be allocated as follows:

Quote

• Direct 25% of the tax increment capture proceeds to the Red Line.
• Direct 75% of the tax increment capture to a reserve fund for future commuter rail projects to Union and Gaston Counties
The proposal presumes the future commuter rail projects to Union and Gaston Counties would terminate at Charlotte Gateway Station."  

I am glad they are thinking this far ahead, but they need to decide what they will do with the P&N tracks before I go ahead and build my streetcar on them up to Tuckaseegee (I still think the stretch of P&N tracks from Cedar st to Tuckaseegee looks like Southend (in terms of development potential)

[southslider]

kermit, on 23 February 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

(I still think the stretch of P&N tracks from Cedar st to Tuckaseegee looks like Southend (in terms of development potential)

Sure, but compared to West Morehead Street between Cedar St and Wilkinson Blvd?

[kermit]

southslider, on 23 February 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

Sure, but compared to West Morehead Street between Cedar St and Wilkinson Blvd?

I will concede that the P&N tracks don't do anything for the stretch of Morehead from Freedom to Wilkinson. That said the P&N tracks are just a block or two from Morehead from Cedar to Freedom and provide access to South Wesley Heights and the transitioning industrial (and multifamily) space that straddles Tuckeseegee and up to Turner. It just looks like there is so much potential to convert the industrial space to multifamily, and the tracks are just.... there already... Seeing rails there makes it feel like the streetcar would be free.....

But yes it will provide LOTS of transit to Wesley Heights and does not really connect to anything substantial at the end of the line but....