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Greenville, Lockwood, Tryon Hills, Druid Hills, Double Oaks Neighborhoods


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61 replies to this topic

#21 shawnpaul

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 09:33 PM

Historically this area nose-dived when they built I-77 and the Brookshire freeway in the late 60s early 70s, which effectively cut it off from downtown. During this period there was also some pockets of urban renewal of the scorched earth type that didn't help. It should be noted however that when this was going on this section of town was more lively than South End which in the late 70s was littered with porno shops, massage parlors and boarded up buildings.

There is a definite bias in Charlotte against any areas that are not in the direction of SE Charlotte and the areas North of the city still suffer from this stigma which has a lot to do with why it has been ignored so long. It's similar to why gentrification has been going on in Noda for 2+ decades now without a lot of progress and why Plaza-Midwood is often referred to as the poor man's Dilworth.


That being said, do you think this area can make a comeback? Do you believe a project like North End Square (www.northendsquarecondos.com) can serve as a catalyst or will this area still go unoticed?

 

#22 monsoon

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 11:53 PM

^Given they have already cooked up another nonsensical trendy name "North End" I don't know. It sounds more like a developer that found some relatively cheap land, wants to throw up a cheaply built condo project just so he can make his bucks as fast as possible. I don't see anything about this project to like and if it was located, say in the University area, it would be derided by most here as another cookie cutter mess. It's bland, boring and typical Charlotte.

Aside from that, the powers to be have decided this area will only be served by buses and cars for the forseeable future and it is too far away from downtown to benefit from it's proximity. It could go either way.

#23 28202

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 09:10 AM

Why would a "North End Square" web site use a south western perspective of uptown? Details people, this is UP.

#24 Charlotte_native

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 12:03 PM

I like the fact that public and private investment is entering this area. I didn't realize how much the city has been working in this area but there have been a handful of projects already. I'm glad that an option to live less than a mile from downtown that has options under $200,000 is now in process. With the vast tracts up and down this corridor I think it has good potential to become another close-in area similar to Southend, Elizabeth, Central Ave. Do I like the North End name? Actually I'm fine with it. If places are going to get names I'd prefer something simple and to the point like this. Much better than the attempt with SoDa or with Seigle Point.

I hope this corridor blossoms -- it does have the potential. I'm glad, as well, that this is occurring somewhere other than south Charlotte. So often we hear that the city and the powers-that-be don't do as much for the less affluent parts of town, the predominantely black parts of town, or areas outside South Charlotte. At least this shows that isn't true. Is it equal? I don't know, but it is an investment.

As far as the developer for North End Square goes, I'm sure they are happy to make a buck, that is what makes these things happen, but I also like the fact that Bobby Drakeford has ties to this area with family, business, school, etc, and he is also African-American. So often we hear cries that gentrification is somehow racially biased but, IMO, this shows that business is business, changes to an area aren't necessarily racially motivated but financially motivated, and this isn't an outsider coming in to change an area -- it's an insider.

Edited by Charlotte_native, 15 February 2008 - 12:05 PM.


#25 CharlotteUrbanPioneer

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 01:29 PM

Historically this area nose-dived when they built I-77 and the Brookshire freeway in the late 60s early 70s, which effectively cut it off from downtown. During this period there was also some pockets of urban renewal of the scorched earth type that didn't help. It should be noted however that when this was going on this section of town was more lively than South End which in the late 70s was littered with porno shops, massage parlors and boarded up buildings.

There is a definite bias in Charlotte against any areas that are not in the direction of SE Charlotte and the areas North of the city still suffer from this stigma which has a lot to do with why it has been ignored so long. It's similar to why gentrification has been going on in Noda for 2+ decades now without a lot of progress and why Plaza-Midwood is often referred to as the poor man's Dilworth.



#26 ricky_davis_fan_21

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 05:55 PM

Why would a "North End Square" web site use a south western perspective of uptown? Details people, this is UP.


This is the true view from northend square. IMHO much better than the one on the website.

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Edited by nibletodell, 16 February 2008 - 05:57 PM.


#27 CharlotteUrbanPioneer

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 08:58 AM

Why would a "North End Square" web site use a south western perspective of uptown? Details people, this is UP.



I just looked at that website today. They've removed that picture and replaced it with an aerial rendering of the project. It is very cool. see www.northendsquarecondos.com .

The website has alot of information on the area. It also finally has the prices. It has the lowest prices that I've seen since Seigel Point. Do you think that this area is better? There is a lot less foot traffic over here than there is in Belmont.


#28 Andyc545

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 09:51 AM

I'm sitting here wondering if this may be the official beginning to the much needed redevelopment of the North Side cooridor, such as that S. Blvd received with the trolley and later LRT. With the NE Line construction expected to begin in the upcoming few years, and the N Tryon redevelopment projects still in sight, as well as the area around NC Music Factory, this may be the time that we begin to see some major trends of change, or at least I hope.

#29 CharlotteUrbanPioneer

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 10:30 AM

I'm sitting here wondering if this may be the official beginning to the much needed redevelopment of the North Side cooridor, such as that S. Blvd received with the trolley and later LRT. With the NE Line construction expected to begin in the upcoming few years, and the N Tryon redevelopment projects still in sight, as well as the area around NC Music Factory, this may be the time that we begin to see some major trends of change, or at least I hope.


This project is really close to the NC Musica Factory / Uptown Village. The Greenville Neighorhood / Park separate the two. The website wills this project as the Front End of North End, so I guess this it at least thinks that its the beginning.

#30 lefty23

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 11:26 AM

With the North End square Development and the Music Factory and Uptown Village developments happening, this corridor is well on its way to something good. I think the real arrival of the area will be if the Rite-aid and buildings across Statesville are redeveloped as was stated is in the works earlier in this thread. It would really open up the area, where currently that right side of Statesville as you go away from Graham is pretty dead and less than attractive(even with all the fledgeling trees the city planted a few years back).

As for foot traffic, there is plenty, but its less than ideal IMO, as the homeless and women's shelters are down Statesville. Around 4-5:30pm everyday its a constant flow of the homeless from 12th street, the 277 bridge and everywhere else in town to get to the shelters. And in the mornings it is the opposite way but similar flow.

Edited by lefty23, 20 February 2008 - 11:27 AM.


#31 The Fringe

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 02:02 PM

I'm sitting here wondering if this may be the official beginning to the much needed redevelopment of the North Side cooridor, such as that S. Blvd received with the trolley and later LRT. With the NE Line construction expected to begin in the upcoming few years, and the N Tryon redevelopment projects still in sight, as well as the area around NC Music Factory, this may be the time that we begin to see some major trends of change, or at least I hope.


Correct me if I am wrong but I understood the NE LRT line to be running not only to the east of Tryon but to the east side of the train yard. How would this new NE line help these communities that we are discussing?

#32 CharlotteUrbanPioneer

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 02:06 PM

Correct me if I am wrong but I understood the NE LRT line to be running not only to the east of Tryon but to the east side of the train yard. How would this new NE line help these communities that we are discussing?



It going to run accross Statesville Ave. a few 100 yards from the North End Square project and cut accross to North Graham St. near the back side of Druid Hills where the Charlotte Mecklenburg Housing Partnership is doing a lot of work.

#33 The Fringe

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 02:19 PM

It going to run accross Statesville Ave. a few 100 yards from the North End Square project and cut accross to North Graham St. near the back side of Druid Hills where the Charlotte Mecklenburg Housing Partnership is doing a lot of work.


Is that not the North corridor commuter rail line not the Northeast Light Rail? Different projects on different time lines.


Anyone know off hand which is to be constructed first?

#34 monsoon

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 02:23 PM

It going to run accross Statesville Ave. a few 100 yards from the North End Square project and cut accross to North Graham St. near the back side of Druid Hills where the Charlotte Mecklenburg Housing Partnership is doing a lot of work.


No that's not correct in terms of the question asked. The NE LRT does not come anywhere close to this project. The North Commuter Rail Line does go right by this project, but there are no stations planned that would serve this neighborhood. Once the train leaves Gateway Station in downtown, there won't be another station on the line until it reaches Derita.

I had suggested some time ago that the city ought to revisit the North corridor plan and look at putting something more robust on this corridor where there would be stations all along the route between downtown and I-85 and then from there on it would revert back to more of a commuter rail system. However the idea was poo-poo'd because it would cost significantly more than the current plan.

Anyone know off hand which is to be constructed first?

If the North CR line is built, it's expected to be operational around 2011 and 2012. The NE LRT is now scheduled for 2015. As I just mentioned the North CR line will not serve this neighborhood.

#35 CharlotteUrbanPioneer

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 03:45 PM

No that's not correct in terms of the question asked. The NE LRT does not come anywhere close to this project. The North Commuter Rail Line does go right by this project, but there are no stations planned that would serve this neighborhood. Once the train leaves Gateway Station in downtown, there won't be another station on the line until it reaches Derita.

I had suggested some time ago that the city ought to revisit the North corridor plan and look at putting something more robust on this corridor where there would be stations all along the route between downtown and I-85 and then from there on it would revert back to more of a commuter rail system. However the idea was poo-poo'd because it would cost significantly more than the current plan.If the North CR line is built, it's expected to be operational around 2011 and 2012. The NE LRT is now scheduled for 2015. As I just mentioned the North CR line will not serve this neighborhood.


I am not very abreast of the planned stops other than Derita so I will take your word for it. Thanks.

#36 Andyc545

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 05:10 PM

Correct me if I am wrong but I understood the NE LRT line to be running not only to the east of Tryon but to the east side of the train yard. How would this new NE line help these communities that we are discussing?


The NE Line will not run near this, I was just speaking in general senses about the north side of Charlotte. The rail yards is a major physical and psychological barrier right now that splits NoDa from a very run down area. The NE Line will likely bring changes and redevelopment within at least a half mile from the rail line, which covers a great deal east of N Tryon. Other projects and redevelopment that have been hinted or at this point announced are helping to redevelop what is west of N. Tryon and the rail yards currently, which as you know run directly next to N. Tryon in this particular area. I'm wondering how much the current projects that are proposed, which are 200k dollar + units taking over what is rather run down, poor, high crime area, and jump kick redevelopment of the North Side of Charlotte, and wonder if it will follow a similar path as what S. End did.

#37 Charlotte_native

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 05:21 PM

The NE Line will not run near this, I was just speaking in general senses about the north side of Charlotte. The rail yards is a major physical and psychological barrier right now that splits NoDa from a very run down area. The NE Line will likely bring changes and redevelopment within at least a half mile from the rail line, which covers a great deal east of N Tryon. Other projects and redevelopment that have been hinted or at this point announced are helping to redevelop what is west of N. Tryon and the rail yards currently, which as you know run directly next to N. Tryon in this particular area. I'm wondering how much the current projects that are proposed, which are 200k dollar + units taking over what is rather run down, poor, high crime area, and jump kick redevelopment of the North Side of Charlotte, and wonder if it will follow a similar path as what S. End did.

Southend proper is a relatively narrow corridor that has the rail as a major influence as well as Dilworth (established) on one side and Wilmore (chaning and gentrifying) on the other side. Those two residential neighborhoods give solid borders to the prime development parts of Southend so the projects going on are filling it in quickly. The new development patterns likely for Southend will be North - South primarily.

Northend has a lot more potential sites with so many industrial and vacant tracts. Add up the Rite-Aid site and Hercules (i hope whatever goes there KEEPS that name!) and you have just under 60 acres. With the other larger tracts in the area you have huge potential for large scale development. I see this area as much more like what is going on just beyond Wesley Heights with the Bryant Park Development, Radiator Specialty, and the other industrial tracts turning to mixed uses along Morehead, Freedom, and Wilkinson. There are quite a few parallels with that area and Northend in terms of demographics, current crime rates, and scale of development.

Edited by Charlotte_native, 20 February 2008 - 05:22 PM.


#38 monsoon

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 05:28 PM

^Exactly what is "Northend" beyond what this developer has cooked up?

#39 Charlotte_native

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 06:53 PM

^Exactly what is "Northend" beyond what this developer has cooked up?

The city is involved in the new name. The buyers and potential buyers of the Rite-Aid and Hercules site are involved. There are a handful of projects that being considered as well. Northend Square is a name for one project, Northend in general is being considered for the corridor. Much like Southend. We have the district of Southend, then we have Silos Southend, Chelsea Southend, Southend Square, Village of Southend, etc.

The Developer, in this case, did not cook up anything, he just appears to be the first one to use it. I guess he didn't cook, just took the first serving of the stew... :)

I'm all for branding or naming an area if it doesn't already have one. Much like the threads on here about Queen Park area -- there is no real known name for that particular part of South Blvd where there isn't an established neighborhood or name. Giving it a name helps people identify the place, especially if it is a new place they aren't familiar with. Also makes it easier than saying: 'I live in that mid area between Sedgefield, Dilworth, Remount Road, and Scaleybark along South Boulevard'. Far easier to say: 'I live in Queen Park'. Again, I think renaming an area is a bit goofy, like Seigle Point for Piedmont Courts, or SoDa for a random area on North Davidson Street, but this area really has no identifying name and isn't really part of Greenville or other surrounding neighborhoods.

There are neighborhoods on all sides of this corridor, but right now the commercial, vacant, and industrial sites along Statesville and Graham are sort of in an indentified 'zone'. Hence the desire for a name. There are large swaths of acreage that will likely have many other projects that will add to the development in the area.

Projects that the various stakeholders in this market consider to be part of 'NorthEnd':

NorthEnd Square
City View Terrace
Hercules
Rite-Aid
Double Oaks redevelopment (finished)
North Carolina Music Factory (reaching on this one to me, but just conveying)
The Park at Oaklawn

There are more, they just aren't very far along and nothing solid regarding them.

Edited by Charlotte_native, 20 February 2008 - 06:58 PM.


#40 New Name

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 07:59 PM

The city is involved in the new name. The buyers and potential buyers of the Rite-Aid and Hercules site are involved. There are a handful of projects that being considered as well. Northend Square is a name for one project, Northend in general is being considered for the corridor. Much like Southend. We have the district of Southend, then we have Silos Southend, Chelsea Southend, Southend Square, Village of Southend, etc.

The Developer, in this case, did not cook up anything, he just appears to be the first one to use it. I guess he didn't cook, just took the first serving of the stew... :)

I'm all for branding or naming an area if it doesn't already have one. Much like the threads on here about Queen Park area -- there is no real known name for that particular part of South Blvd where there isn't an established neighborhood or name. Giving it a name helps people identify the place, especially if it is a new place they aren't familiar with. Also makes it easier than saying: 'I live in that mid area between Sedgefield, Dilworth, Remount Road, and Scaleybark along South Boulevard'. Far easier to say: 'I live in Queen Park'. Again, I think renaming an area is a bit goofy, like Seigle Point for Piedmont Courts, or SoDa for a random area on North Davidson Street, but this area really has no identifying name and isn't really part of Greenville or other surrounding neighborhoods.

There are neighborhoods on all sides of this corridor, but right now the commercial, vacant, and industrial sites along Statesville and Graham are sort of in an indentified 'zone'. Hence the desire for a name. There are large swaths of acreage that will likely have many other projects that will add to the development in the area.

Projects that the various stakeholders in this market consider to be part of 'NorthEnd':

NorthEnd Square
City View Terrace
Hercules
Rite-Aid
Double Oaks redevelopment (finished)
North Carolina Music Factory (reaching on this one to me, but just conveying)
The Park at Oaklawn

There are more, they just aren't very far along and nothing solid regarding them.




Would be cool if they called the area just "Hercules". Like "The Tenderloin" in San Fran.




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