2223 replies to this topic

[kermit]

So I spent a chunk of the weekend reading through the South Light Rail Transit thread that got started in 2005. I was struck by the fact that in some ways we are much better off now:

• Roughly 1/3 of the discussion was focused on fears of low ridership, some of it was racially tinged.
  
• There were similar worries about the LRT ‘generating’ crime
  
• Substantial discussion focused on ‘overbuilding’ the line (the grade separations at Woodlawn, Tyvola and Archdale. Double tracking bridges in uptown etc.) was needlessly inflating costs.
  
• Worries about the Scalybark weave causing traffic problems on S blvd and not crossing 485 into downtown Pineville  negatively impacting ridership (there was also very early talk of a spur to Carolina Place Mall)
  
• Fear that the CTC station would look like “a carport in a trailer park” (its funny because its true!)
  
• Only one company bid on the station construction work on the BLE – it appeared that construction costs were astronomical due to Katrina rebuilding / Chinese demand for construction 'stuff'

In some other ways were are now much worse off. Discussion of the schedule attached to the 2025 transit plan really makes me sad (these two quotes are from posts around September 2005):  

Quote

Here is CATS's current order and timeline. the range is start and end of construction.

S LRT: 2005-2008
N CRT: 2007-2009
Trade Streetcar:2007-2009
SE BRT: 2010-2013
W BRT/Streetcar: 2010-2013
NE LRT to NoDa: 2011-2013
BF and Central Streetcar: 2015-2017
NE LRT to 485/LMS: 2016-2018  [The UNCC extension certainly did jump to the head of the line!]
Center City Streetcar spurs: 2022-2025

or to put it another way (from 2005)

Quote

In 2013, the core of the system will be built, with lines in all five directions plus a short streetcar downtown. The subsequent 12 years of the next 20 years will basically just be the street car spurs/extensions and the University City extension.

Some of the other bummers from 2005:

• Development was also expected to explode at the South end of the line (Arrowood and Archdale) -- many specific parcels appeared to be 'in play' back during the boom
  
• Loss of a cantilevered LRT bridge over 277 which would have accommodated a pedestrian route over 277. While I would really like to have this bridge now, the inability to walk through the convention center makea its loss less tragic.
  
• I had completely forgotten that Gateway station was planned to be on the Independence blvd / Westward  LRT / BRT route – it really was not disconnected from the LRT network in the original plan

It was an interesting look back. It appeared (to me) that we had avoided just about everything we were afraid of and the BLE turned out to be much more useful than we expected. Despite that we have fallen decades behind the original schedule.

Edited by kermit, 16 January 2012 - 04:10 PM.

[norm21499]

Wow, you read quite a bit! How long did it take you to read though everything!? I am glad that most of our fears did not become reality.

[kermit]

The Escapists, on 15 December 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

Yeah I was thinking this too.... it seems to me that CTC and Stonewall might already be able to handle 3-car trains...

I eyeballed the platforms at Stonewall and CTC. It appears that both platforms are exactly long enough for 3-car trains, however the elevated portion of both platforms (so level boarding can occur) are only long enough for two cars at the moment. It does look like it would be a straightforward, non-structural fix.

[dbull75]

CATS may be looking to raise bus and rail fares to $2.00 for one way trips. This is becoming a concern to me. I think this fare is justifiable once the LYNX extension is completed. However, at the present moment this borders on too much for some to consider just parking their car uptown, especially if they have one or more people traveling with them.

[carolina_fan]

dbull75, on 28 January 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

CATS may be looking to raise bus and rail fares to $2.00 for one way trips. This is becoming a concern to me. I think this fare is justifiable once the LYNX extension is completed. However, at the present moment this borders on too much for some to consider just parking their car uptown, especially if they have one or more people traveling with them.

Yes, they are.  The MTC will hold a public hearing on March 28th.  Here's their proposed rate increases to start on July 1st:

http://charmeck.org/...reIncrease.aspx

[DMann]

It has been my experience that a significant number of people regularly put in 2 dollar bills to take a one way ride.  I believe there will be some feedback, but in general there should be little resistance to a hike to $2.

[tozmervo]

Atlanta's new streetcar line look aaaaawfully familiar
http://designingheal...streetcar-line/

[The Escapists]

Wow. That's a horrible photoshopping job.

[Shawn&Zae]

They could at least remove the blue color and the Lynx logo

[dubone]

Yeah, before I got a bus pass I always spent $2 on the bus, but use plastic for Lynx.  I think $2 will be fine for most people but hopefully they don't rush to raise it too much.  There is some elasticity of demand for transit, and you lose social benefits from raising the price to the point that fewer people ride.


As for ATL, they photoshopped in Peachtree, but left the Lynx brand.  That actually seems like a flattering endorsement of the quality of the Lynx branding.    The CATS logo's ridiculous MS Paint shading always annoys me, but Lynx was done well.

http://en.wikipedia....e_CATS_logo.png

[kermit]

The 2012 annual report from the Federal Transit Administration lists the BLE as "recomended" in its budget request to congress for FFGA funding this year (Fiscal 2013). It appears to be the only new starts project recomended for funding this fiscal year. Honestly I don't really know what this means, but today's post at the Transportation Politic seems to think it is a big deal.

http://www.fta.dot.g...ext_1_30_12.pdf


EDIT: and a few hours later the observer has an article on it: http://www.charlotte...-charlotte.html

a notable quote from the Observer:

Quote

"We don't expect anything to derail it," said Federal Transit Administrator Peter Rogoff Tuesday. "We are very supportive of this project. We don't see any show-stoppers."

Read more here: http://www.charlotte...l#storylink=cpy

Edited by kermit, 14 February 2012 - 01:31 PM.

[dbull75]

Great news! For the Fed Administrator to come out and say they don't see any road blocks for full approval goes a long way. Very exciting... It will be interesting to how many TOD proposals north of downtown start to pop up in the next year or so... I assume construction of the extension can commence next year once everything gets the final stamp?

[ah59396]

Walking through the CTC station lastnight, I couldn't help but imagine the huge impact on general ridership this extension will create.  Not only people heading uptown, but also the number of people heading from SouthEnd to NoDa, UNCC to SE and NoDa, And everything inbetween.  I envision this being much more I a transit line with the extension and much less of a commuter line as it is currently (not all the time) treated.

Man I'm pumped.

[The Escapists]

--- what is the $70M for, exactly?   Is it $70M toward the $450? Or....

[kermit]

^ the Observer really dropped the ball with that. I am guessing its for final design and engineering work.

[nyxmike]

The Escapists, on 06 February 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

Wow. That's a horrible photoshopping job.

That picture wasn't photoshopped. The car was manufactured in Atlanta and put on display for 2 days back in 2010...

"Tracks were being laid in front of the Metro Atlanta Chamber this week so Georgians could see an actual light rail car — making a stop in town for a couple of days.

The light rail vehicle, which also can operate as a streetcar, was on its way to Charlotte, N.C. as part of the North Carolina city’s second phase of its public transit system.

Of course Siemens, the German firm that designed and manufactured the light rail car, wanted Atlantans to see what they could have if they got their act together."

Edited by nyxmike, 14 February 2012 - 07:35 PM.

[ajfunder]

Interesting, I know all the cars will be going to California for running gear rebuilds over the next two years, is this one of them? No cars have been ordered besides the 20 in service now including 117 in the photo. 117 was part of 4 extra cars built in 2009 because of high ridership to add capacity to the line and its 16 original cars, I thought it would have been one of the last to go west for the rebuild. New cars will be ordered most likely in 2013 or 2014 and will most likely be numbered 121-138 bringing the fleet up to 38 LRV's and 3 replica streetcars (91,9,93) which will be used on Charlottes starter streetcar line plus historic car 85.

Edited by ajfunder, 14 February 2012 - 09:00 PM.

[dubone]

Are you sure car 85 will be used on Trade/Elizabeth?  I thought it would hold up to the risk of an accident.

I'm excited about the BLE money.   That is a strong endorsement that the administration is confident it will get a FFGA this fall.  It was good enough to get the news late last year about 18m for the south corridor capacity increases, and a record of decision to allow final design and right of way acquisition.  I bet this money is just an amount for that work, but it is great to see it in the budget.   Of course, if it gets a FFGA, then the FTA is basically promising it to be in the budgets for the next few years, but they haven't promised it, but still have given us a sizable amount of money.  

, isn't that the money we already knew was coming? It is awesome news is that they listed it as recommended and that important people say that it is likely to pass and actually get a FFGA this fall.   That will be extra good when we and the administration can boast about it at the DNC this fall.

It would be great if it gets built while there is still a highly competitive construction industry, so that like other recent projects, bids can come in under budget.  It would be great not only to save the money, but also, I wonder if that will allow them to add back other things that have been cut or unfunded changes like 3-car capacity in some additional stations in the south.

Not only will the BLE bring the Blue line marginally closer to where I live, but I know for certain I will use it to go to NoDa a lot, so I am excited that it will likely be under construction next year.

[dubone]

The $70m is just this year's budget's installment.  But I'm sure it is primarily for the work that is approved to do this year, like ROW purchase and final engineering.

http://charmeck.org/...C 2011 0126.pdf
I was reacquainting myself with some of the updates/budget cuts for the BLE from a year ago.  I actually do agree with or at least understand most of the changes.  Some parts you really have to wonder why they were in there in the first place, especially a separate vehicle maintenance facility at the N-S yards, which of course we are hoping will eventually evolve and shift to the airport facilities after the intermodal yard is relocated.   Of course it makes sense to have all of the same type of vehicle maintained at the same location on S Tryon rather than split your skilled workforce up.

I also really like the expanded JW Clay station with the deck.   Perhaps, too, the retail might benefit from people commuting to that stop, with trip reductions from people stopping at the shops before finishing their commute, rather than just hopping on 485.  

Also, at University City, they went ahead and built the street connection north to Ikea Blvd, which cuts 2/3 the distance for I-85 commuters, as well as solidifies the street connection to the developable land which Crescent has master planned as the residential part of their development.    It also makes it more walkable to any new smaller retail clustered in new lots south of Ikea.
http://www.crescentr...te/siteplan.asp
http://charmeck.org/...August 2011.pdf

[ajfunder]

Car 85 is not going to be used on the streetcar line I don't think, I meant it is functional and technically part of the roster, it is still used on special occasions.

I think the LRV facility at the intermodal yard is intended to eventually be the main maintenance facility because of its central location. Don't forget the 10 mile streetcar and Silver line if LRT would use the current intermodal site. The South Blvd. location doesn't have much room to expand and it is not in a central location, which is why a storage tracks will still be built at the facility at the intermodal yard because the current facility can't even handle the 18 extra trains for the extension, and when you factor in the full streetcar and Silver line we could be looking at around 50 new LRV's. Although only storage is need for the BLE, eventually that intermodal site will become the main and central facility on the LRT and streetcar system.

Edited by ajfunder, 15 February 2012 - 04:51 PM.