174 replies to this topic

[beyonce245]

transitman, on Sep 21 2009, 12:06 PM, said:

It's official.  Commuter rail is pretty much dead as an idea in the Triad.  The attitudes expressed by most of the people quoted in the article and those commenting are a big part of the reason I left the Triad.  Oh well.

What attitudes from the article are you talking about?  I thought everyone quoted was pretty straightforward about the reasoning: demand isn't there.  I've said over and over again on this thread that commuter or light rail will never materialize until Triad transit agencies drastically increase ridership and revenue hours on existing bus operations.

You sound like you wanted light rail built.  But it doesn't make sense to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on something that won't be needed for years, especially when public transit in the triad can be drastically improved by upgrading existing services.

[transitman]

beyonce245, on Sep 21 2009, 03:02 PM, said:

What attitudes from the article are you talking about?  I thought everyone quoted was pretty straightforward about the reasoning: demand isn't there.  I've said over and over again on this thread that commuter or light rail will never materialize until Triad transit agencies drastically increase ridership and revenue hours on existing bus operations.

You sound like you wanted light rail built.  But it doesn't make sense to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on something that won't be needed for years, especially when public transit in the triad can be drastically improved by upgrading existing services.

The methods that PART used to predict ridership (regional travel demand models) are the same ones that regularly (Phoenix) underpredict (Minneapolis) ridership (Denver) by thousands (Charlotte) of riders (Dallas) per day.  

One would think that with the completely laughable track record these methods have racked up in the last few years, the transit agency would talk about whether or not the methods required by the federal government are any good.  Generally speaking, they're not.  Instead, there's blithe acceptance.

Personally, I don't think light rail between Winston and Greensboro makes any sense.  Rush hour commuter rail service could be very successful though with proper planning and infrastructure investment.  But that's not going to happen with the lack of leadership on this issue in the Triad.

Edited by transitman, 21 September 2009 - 01:20 PM.

[nyxmike]

beyonce245, on Sep 21 2009, 01:02 PM, said:

What attitudes from the article are you talking about?  I thought everyone quoted was pretty straightforward about the reasoning: demand isn't there.

I think he was referring to the user comments if you scroll down to the bottom of the article.

[beyonce245]

transitman, on Sep 21 2009, 03:19 PM, said:

The methods that PART used to predict ridership (regional travel demand models) are the same ones that regularly (Phoenix) underpredict (Minneapolis) ridership (Denver) by thousands (Charlotte) of riders (Dallas) per day.  

One would think that with the completely laughable track record these methods have racked up in the last few years, the transit agency would talk about whether or not the methods required by the federal government are any good.  Generally speaking, they're not.  Instead, there's blithe acceptance.

Personally, I don't think light rail between Winston and Greensboro makes any sense.  Rush hour commuter rail service could be very successful though with proper planning and infrastructure investment.  But that's not going to happen with the lack of leadership on this issue in the Triad.

I didn't know you were partially referring to the ridership predictions.  Oh and I noticed the the backwoods comments on the article too, but I certainly don't think those kinds of people are representative of the entire Triad.

I agree that there is a lack of leadership on the issue of public transit.  Local leaders have done little to nothing to inform triad residents about the benefits of public transit.  I would like to see light rail or commuter rail in the Triad eventually.  But before then, I would like to see more regional cooperation and a more concerted attempt by PART to do more.  If the whole idea about the study was a planned commuter rail route from Greensboro to Winston-Salem, why aren't we seeing PART or GTA or WSTA implement more direct connections between the two cities already.  Instead of having to connect at the PART hub, why aren't there at least rush hour routes that connect Greensboro and Winston-Salem directly?

[gso27]

The commuter rail plan might have been too grand for it's own good. A simple line linking Downtown Greensboro, (then eventually Winston and High-Point) with the airport might have been a better start.

[Beany]

In my opinion commuter trains don't make much since in most parts of the country.  Buses may not be sexy but they are much, much cheaper and give you the flexibility to change routes, and bring the vehicles closer to where people live and work.  

I agree we need to invest in our bus systems to make them more convenient.

[kdub1]

Given that a Greensboro-Winston commuter rail connection was supposed to be a part of SEHSR, future passengers in the Camel City will be on their own.

[beyonce245]

GTA completed its data transfer to Google a couple of weeks ago to begin using Google Transit.  Apparently there's a backlog at Google, so GTA is just waiting on Google to get it up and running.

[suburban george3]

The Winston-Salem Transit Authority (WSTA) has just acquired 10 new hybrid diesel/electric buses.  10 more are on order, and the plans are to convert the entire fleet of 52 buses.  They have the potential to get twice the fuel economy or better of the 14yr old buses they replace.  Plus, I like the light green paint job!  





quality's not great, cell phone pics and late in the day...

[cityboi]

Train service will soon come to Lexington. The city will get a $700,000 federal grant to begin planning of a multi-modal station which will be the hub for Passenger rail, bus, taxi, bicycle and pedestrian networks.

http://www.news-reco...w_train_station

[kermit]

It appears that Winston-Salem has begun the eminent domain process on the old union station to facilitate HSR route planning. While I am pleased that they are moving forward with HSR planning in Winston I am dismayed that they appeared to have settled on this site  -- its separated from downtown Winston by business 40, and 52  and the rail gulch. This seems to ensure that there will be no pedestrian connection to the station to anywhere other than WSSU.  I would think a more direct connection to downtown and PTRP would be very important to the success of both HSR and commuter rail in particular. A site that connects to the now dormant WS streetcar plan also seems like a no brainer. If I was picking a new site on existing rail I would prefer a site between 1st and 3rd streets near Patterson or (possibly) the lots between 5th and 6th streets.

As an aside Virginia appears to be considering the extension of its 'Lynchburger' psudeo-amtrack service to DC into Roanoke. I wonder if eventually running the train all the way down to Winston (via Martinsville) would offer any significant connectivity advantages? I will admit this is a long shot since the current schedule would make departure and arrival times into Winston horrid and I suspect that VADOT would prefer the train to go to Bristol. Just blue skying here.....

[kdub1]

It may have been mentioned here or on another post, but my take on the NS line along Battleground Avenue is that the whole segment from the A&Y Greenwayto downtown is single track, so as a result, converting the line to a greenway would be a better plan than converting it to light rail. Instead, any light rail line serving west central Greensboro would be better off using Church or Eugene, Fisher/Smith, and Battleground for maximum optimization.

[basket1058]

Just saw this on News 14 Carolina. The Creative Corridors project is continuing to gather local input for the proposed improvements to Business 40 through downtown. They'll be having a meeting to discuss these improvements this Thursday, one meeting at one the other at six, at the Milton Rhodes Center for the Arts. The video also gives a sneak peek at some of the improvements they're looking into for the corridor!!!

Creative Corridors Project

Edited by basket1058, 29 June 2011 - 05:51 AM.

[kdub1]

PART is in some serious trouble.
http://www.news-reco..._go_up_60_cents
http://www2.journaln...-mo-ar-1288291/

Provided that the agency goes through with its cuts, some routes would be reduced to once a day, which might as well be the death knell for a Triad-wide bus system. If the worst-case scenario takes place, I seriously doubt that any of the big three transit agencies would step up in a major way. Just a year ago, PART was talking about expansion. Now, the company is fighting for its very existence. A chief problem is that PART overexpanded by adding service to places like Forest Oaks rather than adding evening and/or weekend frequencies on Routes 1, 2 & 3, the core routes.

[kdub1]

Here we go again. I have to wonder if there will even be a PART in 5-10 years if the economy continues to be sluggish.

NOTICE OF ROUTE ADJUSTMENTS
In preparing for FY 2013 budget year, The PART Board has approved the proposed service reductions with the exception of Route 9. Route 9 will have a time adjustment in the PM Northbound trip.
Effective Date for these changes will be July 1, 2012.
Detailed Service Changes:
Route 1 Winston-Salem  Eliminate 8:30am and 3:30pm trips (View Schedule)
Route 2 Greensboro  Eliminate 8:30am and 3:30pm trips (View Schedule)
Route 3 High Point   Eliminate 8:30am and 3:30pm trips (View Schedule)
Route 4 Medical Conn. No Reduction
Route 5 Amtrak Conn. No Reduction
Route 6 Surry County
Eliminate 6:00am, 6:30am, 6:40am, 6:50am, 7:40am, 12:40pm, and 4:23pm Southbound trips and 11:20am, 3:10pm, 3:20pm, 4:22pm, 5:05pm, 5:32pm, and 7:10pm Northbound trips. The 5:30am and 7:00am (adjusted to serve King) trips Southbound and 4:02pm (adjusted to serve King) and 4:30pm Northbound trips will remain.
(View Schedule)
Route 8 Davidson US 52 Eliminate 7:10am Northbound and 5:15pm Southbound. The 6:40am Northbound trip will remain and Southbound trip will be 4:45pm. (View Schedule)
Route 9 Davidson Bus. 85 Adjust the 1:53pm Northbound to 3:00pm Northbound. The 6:15am Northbound, 8:02am Southbound and 4:45pm Southbound trips will remain. (View Schedule)
Route 10 Randolph Co. No Reduction
Route 13 Yadkin Co. Eliminate 6:10am Eastbound and 3:30pm Westbound. The 6:55am Eastbound and 5:05pm Westbound trips will remain. (View Schedule)
Route 14 Davie Co. Eliminate 6:05am Eastbound and 4:05pm Westbound. The 7:00am Eastbound and 5:05pm Westbound trips will remain. (View Schedule)
PTIA Shuttle  Eliminate 1 Shuttle between 6:00am-9:30am and 1 Shuttle between 12:00pm-2:30pm. 4 Shuttles will remain in service during 6-9:30am and 1 will remain 12:00am-2:30pm, all other shuttles will remain the same.
We are continuing to fight for our riders to find sufficient funding to keep PART buses running. All of your comments were provided to the PART Board and there was deep concern expressed by the Board. We will be working with the Federal and State officials over the next few days to find additional revenue to keep the buses running and we will keep you posted.