50 replies to this topic

[rooster8]

The Haywood Park Hotel has just been sold to the owner of the Westgate shopping center:  Haywood Park complex sold

He says a parking lot on Page Ave is a "pregnant spot " ripe for development.  I believe that is a lot across from the Grove Arcade.

[archiham04]

That vacant lot is directly across the street from one of the side entrances to the arcade (i think).  What a great opportunity to set up an architectural statement on axis with that!

[orulz]

They can redevelop the parking lot and parking deck all they want. The Kostas building isn't particularly nice so it could go too, but since it's an active building with decent urban form and housing numerous retail tenants, I'm not all fired up to tear it down. Has anyone moved into the retail spaces of 21 Battery Park yet? If not, maybe Kostas could move there (it's just next door.)

[rooster8]

IIRC, the only retail tenant at 21 Battery Bark is Three Dogs Bakery.  I hope they make it there because my dog really likes their cookies.

[hauntedheadnc]

I'm personally hoping for a highrise on the site of the parking lot.

Orulz, I noticed that you had commented on the Mountain X-Press site about this article.  Did you notice in their illustration, that the planned traffic circle in front of the Civic Center can be seen in the upper left?

Edited by hauntedheadnc, 27 June 2007 - 02:17 PM.

[rooster8]

Is the Kostas building the one with the Subway?  If so, I wouldn't be that upset if something better replaced it.  It just doesn't fit in where it is.

[orulz]

Yeah, Kostas Menswear is the main tenant facing the grove Arcade in that building. I do believe there's a subway in that building too; several years back there used to be a port city java house there instead of the subway. The building is just an unadorned brick box, but then again it contributes a lot to retail quality and street activity in the area so I'm not in a hurry to tear it down. It is proof positive that you don't need monumental, breathtaking, detailed, or even attractive architecture to have a great urban experience.

If it gets torn down, Kostas needs to relocate to somewhere else downtown; preferrably somewhere nearby - whether in the Arcade or 21 Battery Park or wherever. I like that store. In my experience, It's one of a surprisingly few places downtown that are known, respected, and frequented even by suburban-dwelling locals who otherwise could give a crap about the downtown retail and entertainment scene. The base of this resepect is the quality and quantity of merchandise that they carry, and the service offered by the employees, not the store's trendy hipness or just the fact that it's downtown. Tops is another such store that comes to mind. We're going to need more places like Kostas and Tops if we're going to make downtown more of a full-service retail destination that can compete with a shopping mall.

[rooster8]

Sorry to sound so down on the building.  I'm glad for the businesses that are there.  I guess I'm just bummed it's not a better looking building.  It could be a lot worse, but thankfully it is filled with good tenants as you point out.

[hauntedheadnc]

Yes indeed.  Two.  One would be a condo tower and the other a hotel, built as part of the redevelopment of the Haywood Park Hotel, which itself would be shut down and redeveloped as offices.  Surprisingly, developer Tony Fraga is considering building at least one of the towers to "resemble" the Grove Arcade tower that never got built.  

http://www.citizen-t...144/1009/NEWS01

I'm trying not to get too excited, as we all know that "resemble," especially in developer-speak, is nothing to count on.  However...

[rooster8]

I know it'll never happen, but I wish the tower would be built as planned by Grove.  I don't know how it would impact the tax credits and so forth, but it would be great to complete his vision.

[pompusmaximus]

That is certainly wonderful news. Have they released a rendering of the new buildings yet? Also, I wonder if the harsh anti-redevelopment comments made in the citizen times are written by the same ones who continue to vandalize the urban trail.

Edited by pompusmaximus, 01 February 2008 - 12:14 PM.

[hauntedheadnc]

No renderings yet.  No really definite plans at this point even, it seems.  The developer seems to indicate he'll let out some more info in March.

[hauntedheadnc]

Okay... there's been more talk of this story in the paper.  I've also managed to track down some renderings, but I'm alarmed.  It's very hard to tell, so I hope some other folks here will take a look and see what they can see -- but it appears that there's going to be some significant demolition to make way for this project, including the destruction of two art deco buildings!  

Take a look and see if you can see what I hope I'm missing.  If this project is going to take out some art deco buildings, I'm going to bring the hammer down on it -- as much as I can as a private citizen anyways.  Nobody messes with art deco in my town.

http://www.fircgroup...le/haywood-park

[orulz]

hauntedheadnc, on Apr 2 2008, 08:27 PM, said:

Okay... there's been more talk of this story in the paper.  I've also managed to track down some renderings, but I'm alarmed.  It's very hard to tell, so I hope some other folks here will take a look and see what they can see -- but it appears that there's going to be some significant demolition to make way for this project, including the destruction of two art deco buildings!  

Take a look and see if you can see what I hope I'm missing.  If this project is going to take out some art deco buildings, I'm going to bring the hammer down on it -- as much as I can as a private citizen anyways.  Nobody messes with art deco in my town.

http://www.fircgroup...le/haywood-park

Luckily, I think you ARE missing something. To me, it seems that the two things that look like they will be demolished are 1. the Kostas building (which is a boring brick box), and 2. the Haywood Park parking deck (which, who cares?) Seems like they will leave the two historic department store buildings that now constitute the Haywood Park complex, and perhaps even the atrium, which was a (pretty well executed) 1980s addition, untouched.

Expect this to be ultra-upscale, as this is definitely the classiest part of downtown. And it looks to me like they're being pretty good citizens and keeping all the historic stuff pretty much intact. That can't be cheap...

The question is, is there room in this market for this AND the Ellington? I for one doubt it, especially considering how stingy banks are with loans.

[hauntedheadnc]

I hope that things will be clearer when larger renderings are released.  They're building a website for the project.  My main concern is the Pearlman's Furniture building and the Starnes Building.  In the small rendering that shows an aerial view, it would seem, but it's hard to tell, that both of these art deco buildings are left alone.  However, it's so hard to tell that they could just as easily be coming down.

[orulz]

The pearlman's building is in the bottom left of this rendering, as a blank, white placeholder. The developer doesn't own this building.



This rendering shows a partially obsucred view of Haywood Street, but you can see that the buildings along Haywood will be unaltered.

[hauntedheadnc]

In that case, this development is really something to celebrate!

[orulz]

Hmm, on closer look at some of the renderings on the C-T homepage, it seems like the Haywood Building might be demolished, have its facade preserved while the structure behind is demolished, or be otherwise structurally modified to allow for the condo tower planned along Haywood. I wish they wouldn't; there's plenty of area for the tower without tearing this guy down.

Something that we've maybe forgotten is that The FIRC Haywood Park proposal abuts city land that was put out for RFP last year, and was originally acquired for the new parking deck project that died a couple years ago. Wonder if Fraga could use his weight to get the city to turn that into a park rather than selling it off to a developer. He could then construct his development to address that park. Seems like a pretty good idea to me...

[hauntedheadnc]

I spoke with a representative at the developer's office this afternoon and asked some questions.  Here's what I learned:

-- No art deco buildings will be harmed in the construction of this building.

-- The shopping arcade on Page Avenue will be designed to look similar to the Grove Arcade.

-- Atop the Page Avenue arcade will be an amenity floor for the hotel, featuring a green roof and a pool, among other things.

-- Atop the Haywood Street deck will be an amenity floor for the condo tower, featuring similar amenities.

-- The developers are considering adding a public outdoor ice skating rink that can be turned into a bistro area during warm weather months.  Very preliminary.

-- The developers are considering adding an affordable residential component to the project, either by putting it in this project directly, building it directly elsewhere downtown, or contributing to a fund for it a la the Ellington.

[orulz]

hauntedheadnc, on Apr 3 2008, 10:42 PM, said:

-- No art deco buildings will be harmed in the construction of this building.

Did you happen to hear about the Haywood Building (built 1917) - whether that would be demolished, modified, the facade preserved, or what?