190 replies to this topic

[orulz]

The $2.4 billion of HSR money previously awarded to Florida is being put back up for bid. It is a sure thing that NCDOT will apply for some of that money, and I'd say it's very likely that Gateway Station would be at the top of NCDOT's list. Maybe they will just turn around and resubmit the $290 million application from FY2010.

The applications are due April 4th which also gives NCDOT, USDOT, and Norfolk Southern some time to sort out their differences. If the issue with NS isn't solved by then, though, I doubt if NCDOT will be awarded anything at all.

[aceboogie]

nonillogical, on 13 March 2011 - 10:11 AM, said:

I don't think its like that at all. The Trump project was all bluster at the height of a building boom. This is a necessary infrastructure project that is going to happen, its just a much longer time frame than we'd all like.

Well I can tolerate waiting a bit. I just hate when we get these projects, especially infrastrucutre projects that seem to be more talk. I've been trying to read more on SEHSR and it seems so far there have been prelimanary and environmental studies. Is the Gateway Station one of the several things holding it up?

[kermit]

Unfortunately there is no gateway station money in the HSR III (Florida reallocation) round of federal grants. I can't help but think are new legislature made Ray LaHood nervous that more money would get rejected (the money all went to politically 'safe' states, NC was in this category until the last election). The only funding NC received was $4 million for environmental studies on the Raleigh-Richmond CSX route.

The requests for Gateway station included:

Quote

CRISP - Charlotte Gateway Station Track Improvements including new bridges bridges at 4th, 5th, 6th, Trade St. and Morehead Ave and tracks connecting to the Maintenance  Facility and loop track.  

$146.5 million (I have a hard time seeing any other source of cash for this project given its magnitude)

Quote

Charlotte Gateway Station Construction Phase I (Potential PPP)  

$38.5 million (while the city / state might be able to find this money in a friendlier political environment I wonder if construction would be pointless in the absence of the track improvements listed above)

The 36th street grade separation (for NCRR, SEHSR and CATS blue line extension) was also unfunded


Given that Gateway station is unlikely to begin moving for several more years I wonder if we should consider a new, temporary inter-city rail station on the NCRR at either Sugar Creek or 36th street which would smoothly interface with the blue line extension. This would have the virtue of providing better connections to downtown than the current station (and would also have better parking!).

[southslider]

^The existing Am-shack on North Tryon isn't that far from the BLE's Parkwood and 25th Street stations.  I wonder then, how much would a pedestrian bridge cost?

Even after the train station ultimately moved to Gateway, a bridge could be an amenity to help re-develop North Tryon in providing access to the BLE.

[kermit]

southslider, on 09 May 2011 - 11:10 AM, said:

^The existing Am-shack on North Tryon isn't that far from the BLE's Parkwood and 25th Street stations.  I wonder then, how much would a pedestrian bridge cost?

Even after the train station ultimately moved to Gateway, a bridge could be an amenity to help re-develop North Tryon in providing access to the BLE.

^ Much better idea than mine!

[archiham04]

^ Well, this is also the area of the Intermodal yard which is slated to be available soon, for Lynx maintenance facility #2 and possibly mixed use.  I wonder if some TIF $ could support a vechicular bridge?  Connections between N. Tryon and North Davidson need improvement anyway.

[kermit]

Very glad to hear about some movement on station development in today's CBJ email update:

Quote

On Monday, the Charlotte Area Transit System  will ask the City Council to approve $13.2 million toward the project,  with 80% of the money coming from the federal government.

Quote

State transportation officials have told the city that bids will be  solicited for developing Gateway Station as soon as this fall. [EDIT: see post below for the critical second sentence to this quote]  

http://www.bizjourna...du&ana=e_du_pub

I am confused about how important the $200+ million for bridge repairs requested as part of the Florida HSR cash reallocation on the NCRR was to this project.

Edited by kermit, 10 June 2011 - 09:13 PM.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

kermit, on 10 June 2011 - 01:54 PM, said:

State transportation officials have told the city that bids will be solicited for developing Gateway Station as soon as this fall.

You misquoted the article.

Quote

State transportation officials hoped to begin soliciting bids from prospective developers of Gateway Station as soon as this fall. Changes in the political landscape and economic concerns have delayed those plans, state transportation department spokesman Allan Paul says.

[kermit]

cowboy_wilhelm, on 10 June 2011 - 08:59 PM, said:

You misquoted the article.

yikes, I really did.

Thanks for the correction!

[kermit]

I stumbled across this old postcard of the old Southern Railway Charlotte Passenger Terminal (aka the original Gateway Station). Its really a shame this is gone, its striking. You can find a few other views of the station here: http://www.pwrr.org/.../charlotte.html

[orulz]

Something you'll notice is that the train tracks are at grade. The station was torn down when the Southern railway was elevated through central Charlotte, somewhere around 1961. This is the same project that consolodated operations onto Southern's main line, moving most trains off of the line to Columbia bettween 12th and Tyvola. I'd guess that the train station was in the way of the new embankment. Rather than rebuilding in place, the Southern instead decided to build the current station up on North Tryon street.

It's too bad the station is gone, but IMO this wasn't a completely pointless loss of an architectural gem, eg. for the purpose of building a parking lot. Elevating the railroad was a pretty essential transportation project. It enabled Southern to maintain or increase operations without choking off traffic in the growing city. It also left mostly open the line that later became the Charlotte Trolley, and later still became the Blue Line (though I doubt there was any such consideration at the time.)

[ajfunder]

A little off topic but since it was mentioned in the last post, when did trains completely stop running from 12 street to Tyvola. It also appears there was trackage from where the Westin is now connecting from the current light rail corridor to the Mainline just before the old Southern train station. I assume this was to give direct access to passenger trains. When was this connection removed? Some of the grade is still visible near BofA stadium. Last thing two things when was the Charlotte Observer spur built and when was it taken out of service and when was the original O-line connection taken out of service (will be reactivated for Red Line). It is interesting to note that even before I-277 Charlottes center city was surrounded by rail on all four sides. Thanks for any help.

Edited by ajfunder, 16 January 2012 - 10:24 PM.

[Spartan]

ajfunder, on 16 January 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

A little off topic but since it was mentioned in the last post, when did trains completely stop running from 12 street to Tyvola. It also appears there was trackage from where the Westin is now connecting from the current light rail corridor to the Mainline just before the old Southern train station. I assume this was to give direct access to passenger trains. When was this connection removed? Some of the grade is still visible near BofA stadium. Last thing two things when was the Charlotte Observer spur built and when was it taken out of service and when was the original O-line connection taken out of service (will be reactivated for Red Line). It is interesting to note that even before I-277 Charlottes center city was surrounded by rail on all four sides. Thanks for any help.

I think the spur in question only went as far as the Observer building. No tracks, other than streetcar, ever crossed Tryon in the uptown area.

orulz, on 16 January 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

Something you'll notice is that the train tracks are at grade. The station was torn down when the Southern railway was elevated through central Charlotte, somewhere around 1961. This is the same project that consolodated operations onto Southern's main line, moving most trains off of the line to Columbia bettween 12th and Tyvola. I'd guess that the train station was in the way of the new embankment. Rather than rebuilding in place, the Southern instead decided to build the current station up on North Tryon street.

It's too bad the station is gone, but IMO this wasn't a completely pointless loss of an architectural gem, eg. for the purpose of building a parking lot. Elevating the railroad was a pretty essential transportation project. It enabled Southern to maintain or increase operations without choking off traffic in the growing city. It also left mostly open the line that later became the Charlotte Trolley, and later still became the Blue Line (though I doubt there was any such consideration at the time.)

The new station on North Tryon was the modern/minimalist style that Charlotte glommed onto in the mid to late 60s, and it was compatible with the suburban lifestyle that most people wanted to have. It's not an excuse for tearing down the old ones, just an explanation.

It could be worse though... they could have just closed all of the streets through uptown like they are doing all across the state.

[ajfunder]

http://www.historica...28523&year=1960Unless the 1960 photo is made up, there is a rail line running from the current sight of the Westin, through the current Charlotte observer building (to the right of the current spur) past the edge of Bank of America  Stadium then on a trestle over the P&N trackage then joining up with the mainline right before the station. In the link below, the current site of the Westin is in the bottom right hand corner, follow the spur from the junction across the city to the Southern Mainline, the Southern station is right out of view to the top of the page, when matched with modern photos, some of the grade is still visible near BofA stadium. The Charlotte Observer spur had not been constructed yet. Heres the link.

Edited by ajfunder, 17 January 2012 - 10:15 PM.

[tozmervo]

OT, but the "slide" comparison feature on that website is the best thing ever. I could be looking at maps for hours this way

[caterpillar2]

ajfunder, on 17 January 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

http://www.historica...28523&year=1960.

Thanks for posting this.  Now I have something else to waste my time on.  LOL!  I am amazed at the Lake Norman area that didn't exist then.

[kermit]

The CBJ is reporting that Gateway station "has become a top priority of N.C. and Charlotte transit officials in recent months." It appears that "DOT expects to ask the private sector for what it describes as requests for expressions of interest [in April], followed by a more traditional request for qualifications a month later." A developer for the complex will be selected in June.

Not much new news but it is good to hear that there is some momemtum now on the land side of this project. I was on the Piedmont yesterday and was (as usual) overwhelmed by the crappiness of our current station (particularly in comparison to great stations in Durham, Burlington Greensboro and even Kannapolis)

http://www.bizjourna...n-in-works.html

[Skyybutter]

tozmervo, on 17 January 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:

OT, but the "slide" comparison feature on that website is the best thing ever. I could be looking at maps for hours this way

Same here. Can someone verify that there was what looks to be a Speedway at Sugar Creek and N Tryon in the 1960 aerial. The Asian Mall is currently at the location I am speaking of. Just curious.

[ah59396]

I was reading yesterday more in depth on the HSR line from Charlotte to Raleigh.  My understanding is that this thing needs to be under construction by the end of 2012.  Does this include the Gateway Station as part of that project?  Or just the line itself?

[kermit]

^ The station itself was not funded as part of the ARRA HSR grants -- so unfortunately Gateway is not on anybody's immediate to-do list. The maintenance / storage yard facility at Summit St. and the CSX trenching (and NCRR overpass) was part of the grant agreement. If my very rusty memory is correct these are the only two funded HSR projects west of Old Concord rd.

Edited by kermit, 28 March 2012 - 01:12 PM.