5 replies to this topic

[ATLienHopeful]

As Ive stated before, Im hoping to get a job in the PHX area after college and would love to be out in the direction of Scottsdale, or Tempe. My question is where is the civic pride in Scottsdale? Every forum Ive checked other than this one has had really no good things to say about Scottsdale, its mainly " The 30,000 dollar millionaires," or "The Waterfront is great, you can smell sewage and see your stolen bicycle and gang murdered corpses floating by," etc. When I have visited Scottsdale, both summer and winter, I have not noticed any of this, the people make it seem like Compton for Christs sake. Am I just blinded by the Frank Lloyd Wright-esque aesthetics to see this disgusting underbelly or is it all blown horribly out of proportion? I believe there is crime in Scottsdale as well as PHX, and gang activity is rampant, illegals, horrid driving, etc..all the new types of things plaguing Americas major cities...but to this degree? Surely not. Why the hate on Scottsdale, and the constant sniping about crime? In my opinion, PHX doesnt know crime like Memphis to my knowledge. Check the national news on what we had here just last sunday. Quite possibly the most heinous thing Ive ever heard of in my short two decades and change on this planet.

[MJLO]

Scottsdale is a world renown, exclusive community.  Say it's name just about anywhere in this country and it's automatically associated with affluence.  It is certainly not known for crime.  No more than any other suburb anywhere. Trust me, it doesn't smell and I have never felt safer anywhere.  Any vitriole on PHX forums is just typical local bullcrap.  People knock on it because of it's reputation  and prestige. Because they don't live there or whatever.  I will say it is a little annoying to live in a metro area so big with so many wealthy neighborhoods in all parts of it, and have the only thing anyone knows about it, Scottsdale.  I'd also say that the people that live there sometimes think it's the only exclusive community on earth but that's for another topic.  As for the crime in Phoenix, it's as good or as bad as any city it's size.  It's harder to visualize because everything was built within the last 30years.  So you can't always tell by your surroundings if you're in a good or bad neighborhood.

[ATLienHopeful]

MJLO, on Mar 11 2008, 11:58 PM, said:

Scottsdale is a world renown, exclusive community. Say it's name just about anywhere in this country and it's automatically associated with affluence. It is certainly not known for crime. No more than any other suburb anywhere. Trust me, it doesn't smell and I have never felt safer anywhere. Any vitriole on PHX forums is just typical local bullcrap. People knock on it because of it's reputation and prestige. Because they don't live there or whatever. I will say it is a little annoying to live in a metro area so big with so many wealthy neighborhoods in all parts of it, and have the only thing anyone knows about it, Scottsdale. I'd also say that the people that live there sometimes think it's the only exclusive community on earth but that's for another topic. As for the crime in Phoenix, it's as good or as bad as any city it's size. It's harder to visualize because everything was built within the last 30years. So you can't always tell by your surroundings if you're in a good or bad neighborhood.

I figured it would be a tad bit of jealousy....I mean, bodies in the Scottsdale "waterfront" canal area? Are you kidding? Even LA would have the decency to dredge...lol.

MJLO it seems to be that you have a lot of civic pride in PHX and the area. Its nice to see, coming from Dallas where we have a lot of civic and state pride, to Memphis where its pretty nonexistant to my knowledge, Id like to be somewhere where people are proud of where they live.

Im sure Scottsdale isnt the only exclusive community, in fact in a photo forum there were photos of a neighborhood in PHX close to downtown, palm lined streets, for the life of me I cannot remember the name of the nhood but it was a gorgeous neighborhood, in the heart of the city. Aesthetically it was beautiful. Im sure there are more.

[colin]

I don't know what the neighborhood is called, but it's probably Palm Lane, which runs south of Thomas east from Central to about 15th (?) Street. If I'm trying to show off Phoenix, I take people down that street because there's just frankly not much else to show off.
I don't know that I would consider Phoenix as having a lot of civic pride. The Phoenicians I've met who have been there for more than a few years (which is actually few) like their life, but don't seem to be overly involved in civic life in a more community sense. It's just too disjointed and too much of a transient community at this point. People who move here (Tucson) from Phoenix are much more disillusioned with it though, of course.

But, as far as the Scottsdale question, it's jealousy, yes, but it's also a bit of arrogance culture, I think. Scottsdale has, over the years, been fervently resistant to transit coming into their city, which is why Valley Metro has such terrible service there, and why the light rail, if it comes through at all, will not come through for many years, despite the Downtown/Old Town area being one of the more likely candidates in the Valley for it. That sort of reaction from the government is just reflective of the attitude of its citizenry. I'm just as guilty as the next Arizonan in making assumptions and judgments about a person when they say they live in Scottsdale (many who do immediately add that they're from "South" Scottsdale, which has a totally different reputation), but almost all stereotypes are based on some form of truth.

There are plenty of other "exclusive" areas in the Valley though apart from Scottsdale: Paradise Valley, Cave Creek, Ahwatukee, even some areas of Mesa and into the exurban West Valley. They just don't have quite the same stigma associated with them.

[cueball1914]

colin, on Mar 28 2008, 08:43 AM, said:

I don't know what the neighborhood is called, but it's probably Palm Lane, which runs south of Thomas east from Central to about 15th (?) Street. If I'm trying to show off Phoenix, I take people down that street because there's just frankly not much else to show off.
I don't know that I would consider Phoenix as having a lot of civic pride. The Phoenicians I've met who have been there for more than a few years (which is actually few) like their life, but don't seem to be overly involved in civic life in a more community sense. It's just too disjointed and too much of a transient community at this point. People who move here (Tucson) from Phoenix are much more disillusioned with it though, of course.

But, as far as the Scottsdale question, it's jealousy, yes, but it's also a bit of arrogance culture, I think. Scottsdale has, over the years, been fervently resistant to transit coming into their city, which is why Valley Metro has such terrible service there, and why the light rail, if it comes through at all, will not come through for many years, despite the Downtown/Old Town area being one of the more likely candidates in the Valley for it. That sort of reaction from the government is just reflective of the attitude of its citizenry. I'm just as guilty as the next Arizonan in making assumptions and judgments about a person when they say they live in Scottsdale (many who do immediately add that they're from "South" Scottsdale, which has a totally different reputation), but almost all stereotypes are based on some form of truth.

There are plenty of other "exclusive" areas in the Valley though apart from Scottsdale: Paradise Valley, Cave Creek, Ahwatukee, even some areas of Mesa and into the exurban West Valley. They just don't have quite the same stigma associated with them.

Hey, I grew up in Scottsdale, since I was 5, and it was a great place to be a kid. We lived in what is now called South Scottsdale, but really should be East Scottsdale, about a mile from the Pima Indian Reservation's western border. Hayden & Osborn was the nearest major intersection. We used to ride our bikes all over Scottsdale's downtown and west to Phoenix, it really was a small town back then. My dad used to go dove hunting just east of Pima Rd. And the birds were so thick you could get the limit within a few minutes...that was some good eatin'! I now live in North Central Phx, and like it a lot, but I'm only a few minutes drive away from Downtown Scottsdale.
The thing about Scottsdale is that they weren't afraid to spend on civic projects, starting in the late 60's early 70's, and not just small ones, but grand visions like the Hayden Wash project that turned an ugly scar dividing the city into a parkland streching for miles from Shea Blvd to the Salt river. Sure, Scottsdale politicos never met a bulldozer they didn't like, but there was at least some thought and planning going on as well-they have mostly avoided the average short life-cycle of commercial developments that has plagued other cities out here. Maybe the affluence has something to do with that, I don't know. There have certainly been missteps along the way, but over all it's still a really well planned suburb. You gotta play the cards you're dealt, it was never going to be a large city-too landlocked- so it became a nicely planned bedroom community, and it is what it is. Fast becoming like Tempe-nowhere to go but up.
The problem with the bad attitudes about "Snottsdale" is that it was brought here by the moneyed upper class, visitors by winter-vanishing in summer. It's amazing how rude the so called "elite" class can be, and this small contingent of vain, classless, vagabonds carries far more social weight than they deserve. Rest assured, most people in Scottedale are regular folk, they just have to deal with these whack jobs on a daily basis, and it sometimes makes them cranky. Just invite them out for a beer and see for yourself.

[MJLO]

I spend most of my time in the Arrowhead area these days and know only a handful of people who actually live in there.  Scottsdale has the lowest population density of any city in the valley, ( that is if you don't count whore land hoarding west valley exurbs).  It is centered on the north east corner of the valley along with PV, and the more exclusive Phoenix neighborhoods.  I understand how a life long resident would have civic pride in it. But before the vast annexation that has happened in the last few decades The city was limited to the southern areas and not much else.  There is as others have stated a much different feel when you're in old scottsdale vs. every lot being 2acres, strip mall, gas station fast food joint, repeat, in the northern parts of town.  

I don't mind Scottsdale tho most of my business gives me no need to venture that way.  I will say, in concurence with Colins statements.  Scottsdales elitist city government, while progressive in alot of it's policies, and super NIMBY in others, walls itself off from the rest of the valley.   If you look at any thriving metropolitan area in the country, they all have one thing in common. Regionalism!  Suburban cities throw their support, if not only work in accordance with the center city.  Metropolitan Phoenix has more in common with Metro Detroit in terms of it's fractured city governments competing against each other, for spotlight and development dollars.  I often ask myself, why I cant name a notable suburb say in Boston,  but I can name two or three in Phoenix.  Scottsdale is the poster child for this.