83 replies to this topic

[GRDadof3]

From Chris Knape's blog this morning

RHD is moving over to 500 Grandville Ave and selling all their properties on South Division and Williams St.  3 buildings and two parking lots on almost a 1 acre total parcel is quite a bit of space for possible redevelopment.  

The major downsides are that the buildings need a ton of work, and they sit right at ground zero for the homeless population:  Mel Trotter to the immediate West, Guiding Light to the immediate South, and Degage across the street.  The pluses are that it's almost an entire block that could be redeveloped, and it has room for parking or an added parking garage.  There has also been a lot of other redevelopment going on all around it this past year (Douglas J, Loose Leaf Lofts, Cathedral Square, Kelsey Apartments).  The warehouse portion on Williams is a pretty cool looking building.


(bottom image is looking West)


I was just wondering the other day if something was going on with RHD Tire.  Thanks Chris!

[GaryP]

Does RHD control the alley there?  

The last building on South Division had a for sale by owner sign on it for a while.  I wonder if that is still available.  If so that would be a large square parcel to work with.  Hopefully something interesting happens here

[GRDadof3]

GaryP, on Mar 19 2008, 12:50 PM, said:

Does RHD control the alley there?  

The last building on South Division had a for sale by owner sign on it for a while.  I wonder if that is still available.  If so that would be a large square parcel to work with.  Hopefully something interesting happens here

I don't think so.  It's probably a city owned "alleyway" that they might be interested in parting with to tie the whole block together.  There's also the building at the corner of Commerce and Cherry that had the brick fall off the front of that could also be incorporated into the development.  That would be quite huge. Add in a new BRT station in that area and it might be a great TOD.

Here's 217 S. Division:




209 S. Division:




Apparently built in 1910 by the Pecks:




The parking lot:



Big blank wall:




More parking lot.  I think there was actually a residential development envisioned for this parking lot at one time.




17 Williams.  Look at those floor-to-ceiling heights!

[Quercus]

I love the windows on 217 Division and 17 Williams!

[countergirl]

The corner of the property at Cherry and Division is going to be cut when the city "straightens" out Cherry Street.  They'll be a small pocket park next to the mural when it is finished.

[GR Straight Edge]

countergirl, on Mar 19 2008, 09:29 PM, said:

The corner of the property at Cherry and Division is going to be cut when the city "straightens" out Cherry Street. They'll be a small pocket park next to the mural when it is finished.

What exactly is the story on that? I honestly havn't heard a thing about that...

[GRDadof3]

countergirl, on Mar 19 2008, 10:29 PM, said:

The corner of the property at Cherry and Division is going to be cut when the city "straightens" out Cherry Street.  They'll be a small pocket park next to the mural when it is finished.

What silliness.  Why would they cut in half a perfectly viable building parcel (wide enough for an UG or ground-level parking garage with development above), to build a pocket hobo park next to the mural?  I do see that the parcel has an angled right-of-way for Cherry Street.  The city should abandon that idea post-haste.

[jas49503]

GRDadof3, on Mar 19 2008, 10:58 PM, said:

What silliness.  Why would they cut in half a perfectly viable building parcel (wide enough for an UG or ground-level parking garage with development above), to build a pocket hobo park next to the mural?  I do see that the parcel has an angled right-of-way for Cherry Street.  The city should abandon that idea post-haste.

Because green space and pocket parks add greatly to the urban experience. they can be very important for storm water managment and give nearby residents an area where they can enjoy themselves as well as brighten the cityscape.  I don't think it is a bad idea at all.   It's not like there is a deficiency of underutilized building parcels in grand rapids.  If you lose opportunities to place parks by developing every square inch of the city it may be very difficult to get space back when you do want a park.

[GRDadof3]

jasonsquiresdo, on Mar 20 2008, 05:52 AM, said:

Because green space and pocket parks add greatly to the urban experience. they can be very important for storm water managment and give nearby residents an area where they can enjoy themselves as well as brighten the cityscape.  I don't think it is a bad idea at all.   It's not like there is a deficiency of underutilized building parcels in grand rapids.  If you lose opportunities to place parks by developing every square inch of the city it may be very difficult to get space back when you do want a park.

I respectfully disagree.  Green spaces only add greatly to a cityscape if there are people to use them (other than pigeons and bums).  If the RHD buildings are going to be reused, especially for residential, parking has to be provided for the residents.  Secure (indoor) parking preferably.  And a big dirt lot like it has now isn't going to cut it for most people.  Right now it's almost a perfectly sized rectangle to allow for a parking garage, maybe even lined with retail on the S. Division side.  Cut that odd angle out of it and it makes it very difficult to get cars in and out of an oddly shaped (or extremely narrow) parking garage.  Even at the current lot's width of 75 feet, it's tight for a parking garage.  




But contrary to popular belief, there is a deficiency of space in the city.  That's why property is going for $2 Million+ an acre.  The ones that aren't developed are either being used for parking, or are being "held" for future use.  And we have 3 historic buildings in downtown that aren't being used at all because of lack of sufficient parking (Rowe, Kendall, Keeler).  Do we add these three RHD buildings to that?  So that Cherry Street, a minimally used street, can be lined up?

All I'm saying is that a parking garage on that corner could reignite that entire block, which would do a lot more for S. Division than another pocket park.

[sfloria]

I've driven that stretch of Cherry many times and its always an accident waiting to happen.  If you are going west bound on Cherry, people going east bound don't care if you are going straight through or not.  They'll just turn left if they want because they don't think you are making that odd swerve to continue through the intersection.

I'm looking forward to the realignment.  If that means a small public space is created next to the mural, I'm sure that can be done very well and respectfully to the mural as well.  I think there is a bus stop at the corner, maybe some benches or other artwork like they have on that block would make that corner very attractive.

I also don't have a problem taking a slice out of the open lot.  People are creative and it would be easy to create the same type of "liner building" that is being done up the street.  Just hide the parking in the core of the block if they can abondon the alley.  There is great potential in this block.  I hope someone with the means of doing so can get behind it!

[GRGridGirl]

GRDadof3, on Mar 20 2008, 07:40 AM, said:

I respectfully disagree.  Green spaces only add greatly to a cityscape if there are people to use them (other than pigeons and bums).  If the RHD buildings are going to be reused, especially for residential, parking has to be provided for the residents.  Secure (indoor) parking preferably.  And a big dirt lot like it has now isn't going to cut it for most people.  Right now it's almost a perfectly sized rectangle to allow for a parking garage, maybe even lined with retail on the S. Division side.  Cut that odd angle out of it and it makes it very difficult to get cars in and out of an oddly shaped (or extremely narrow) parking garage.  Even at the current lot's width of 75 feet, it's tight for a parking garage.  

But contrary to popular belief, there is a deficiency of space in the city.  That's why property is going for $2 Million+ an acre.  The ones that aren't developed are either being used for parking, or are being "held" for future use.  And we have 3 historic buildings in downtown that aren't being used at all because of lack of sufficient parking (Rowe, Kendall, Keeler).  Do we add these three RHD buildings to that?  So that Cherry Street, a minimally used street, can be lined up?

All I'm saying is that a parking garage on that corner could reignite that entire block, which would do a lot more for S. Division than another pocket park.

Daddy-O: Relax on the hobo-bum lingo.

I doubt a parking garage on this corner would be approved by HPC.  I see potential in a project which offers storefront retail, living spaces, and maybe one covered parking space per living space.

The "straightening" of Cherry & Division is a hot button topic btw.  A direct result of two developers not getting along, Campau & Lyon.

[GRDadof3]

GRGridGirl, on Mar 20 2008, 09:09 AM, said:

Daddy-O: Relax on the hobo-bum lingo.

I doubt a parking garage on this corner would be approved by HPC.  I see potential in a project which offers storefront retail, living spaces, and maybe one covered parking space per living space.

The "straightening" of Cherry & Division is a hot button topic btw.  A direct result of two developers not getting along, Campau & Lyon.

My apologies.  A pocket park for homeless people and vagrants then.

Why wouldn't HPC approve a parking ramp on that corner?  They approved 38 Commerce and Two West Fulton.  Especially if it revived the three buildings on S. Division, 17 Williams and the building on the corner of Commerce and Cherry?  I'm not suggesting a standalone parking ramp like this mammoth one.

And before everyone jumps all over me for wanting to develop "every square inch" of downtown, that's not what I'm suggesting.  I'm talking specifically about this particular corner.

I guess it doesn't really matter that much.  I don't go to S. Division now, so it won't matter to me if things stay status quo.

[mpchicago]

GRDadof3, on Mar 19 2008, 01:03 PM, said:

Here's 217 S. Division:

These buildings are great!  I love how back in the 70's people used to add that random shake roofing as a way to modernize buildings.  It looks so silly.    I'm all for pocket parks, but to me it seems Division and Cherry would not be a great spot for one.   Where would be an ideal spot for such a park?  The triangle at Ionia, Fulton and Louis.

Edited by mpchicago, 20 March 2008 - 07:53 AM.

[GR Straight Edge]

I'm actually down in that whole area quite quite frequently, the dirt/gravel lot that is shown in the pictures is the parking lot typically used for Skelletones / The Euclid / Vertigo etc, that whole block of business on Division right there, i've been waiting for 5+ years now for something to go on with that land, it seemd like it was one of those parcels that could hold some good development given the oppertunity, definately excited to see what they could bring into that area.

The only downside to business coming into that area is that there is indeed a large ammount of homeless people that roam the streets 24 / 7 down there, I know this is a topic that's been discussed before but perhaps it may be time to consider moving some of the shelters into different locations that aren't surrounded by new development.

Also, does anyone know why that sidewalk has been torn up for 2+ years haha...

[Nitro]

GRDadof3, on Mar 20 2008, 09:21 AM, said:

My apologies.  A pocket park for homeless people and vagrants then.

You just used the wrong term.......Hobo's carry their stuff on a stick with a hanky tied around it.  Haven't seen much of that around GR.  

They ride trains too......

[tSlater]

Cantilever over Cherry?   Oh wait.. Historic District.  Nevermind. =p

[GR_Urbanist]

I seem to get this feeling that the future of the Heartside area is really going to be tied to what happens to this site. It pretty much is in the center of the district and covers two of the principle streets (Division and Commerce). If it is done right, it will be the tipping point that the entire area will really permanently turn the corner. If it gets bought up by a non-profit or a shelter related group, then I think, as un-PC as this may sound, that Heatside may be done for for the next 10 to 15 years.

This site really needs an 1st class development and developer.

[Prankster]

GR_Urbanist, on Mar 23 2008, 10:55 PM, said:

I seem to get this feeling that the future of the Heartside area is really going to be tied to what happens to this site. It pretty much is in the center of the district and covers two of the principle streets (Division and Commerce). If it is done right, it will be the tipping point that the entire area will really permanently turn the corner. If it gets bought up by a non-profit or a shelter related group, then I think, as un-PC as this may sound, that Heatside may be done for for the next 10 to 15 years.

This site really needs an 1st class development and developer.

IMO, it will be scooped up by Dwelling Place.  They seem to be the only developer with the means to get anything accomplished in Heartside that is not connected to Ionia Ave.

[Rizzo]

Prankster, on Mar 24 2008, 04:24 AM, said:

IMO, it will be scooped up by Dwelling Place. They seem to be the only developer with the means to get anything accomplished in Heartside that is not connected to Ionia Ave.

Or, Guiding Light Mission

[gvsusean]

Rizzo, on Mar 24 2008, 07:32 AM, said:

Or, Guiding Light Mission

yay