333 replies to this topic

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

How in the world can you justify having a light rail route that goes up and around the government complex, then comes back down and never reaches a single area that can be upgraded to add more potential riders? Also, this area is not where most of the CBD business are located. I only see some state employees and maybe state visitors using this? What is up with this D6a option? If it's money that's the concern, then D6 is going to be the only option the city/state will choose....IMHO!

[DaleCooper]

The city council voted 6-2 for option D6 yesterday, so that will be the preferred route barring something completely unforseen.

[kermit]

Warning: A financially unrealistic suggestion follows

I was just looking at a 1920 rail map of NC and noticed the line connecting Moncure (now on the CSX) and Pittsboro.
http://www.carolana....roads_1920.html

It occured to me this presents a small opportunity to make Chapel Hill less isolated in the commuter rail network. All it would take would be:
1) massive and expensive upgrading of the current route between the NCRR and Carrboro
and
2) Lay new rail between Carrboro and the old ROW in Pittsboro (it can't be THAT expensive, you would only need to pass through one historic district, one medical school campus and then cross over the Haw river (<-- sarcasm)
and
3) Establish the old ROW between Pittsboro and Monecure (I am sure the corridor is still there <-- more sarcasm)
and
4) Get CSX's permission to run to Raleigh union station
5) It would also be possible to run direct to Durham via preserved ROW from Bonsal

This would have the considerable virtue of connecting the fast growing portions of Chatham County and Apex to downtowns in the area. Unfortunately I suspect that it would be a LONG trip from Chapel Hill to Raleigh or Durham. But you could establish a true loop service from Raleigh, Durham, Hillsborough (on a stub), Chapel Hill, Pittsboro and Apex and Cary.

Just daydreaming.....

[ctl]

Pittsboro-Moncure was abandoned in the 1970s or 1980s. There was talk circa 2000 of restoring it for an industry that was considering a new plant near Pittsboro, but the industry went elsewhere -- in part because of NIMBY opposition (something to bear in mind). Most of the Pittsboro-Moncure railroad right of way was subsequently sold. Also, the line had been inexpensively constructed in the 1880s for 10-25 mph speeds. Even if the right of way were intact, it wouldn't be suitable as-is for passenger service today.

For those reasons, an entirely new line would have to be built Carrboro-Pittsboro-Moncure (25 miles). For virgin territory like this (requiring purchase of right of way), the cost would be at least $500 million -- and uncooperative land holders could tie it up in court for years. Moreover, the Federal Railroad Administration won't allow a light rail system to operate over CSX freight trackage Moncure-Apex-Cary-Raleigh. Either the Carrboro-Pittsboro-Moncure line would have to be built to full FRA standards at even higher cost, or a parallel light rail line would have to be built Moncure-Raleigh at high cost.

Bottom line: it will never happen.

[kermit]

Thanks for the history on the Pittsboro-Moncue line, it was much appreciated. For what its worth my pie in the sky proposal was for commuter rail (thus feasible to run on the CSX) rather than LRT (but I didn't make that clear).

While the larger fantasy of a circular commuter rail loop around the Triangle was a largely pointless exercise,  there remains a very real issue of the Chapel Hill spur line. There is talk that UNC will abandon its coal fired steam plant -- such a move would remove the last of the freight traffic from the rail line (I believe the traffic is 2-3 trains of 4-6 hoppers of coal per week). Since there are no other freight generators on the route I can't  imagine that NS would want to maintain the line after that.

Since the line runs due north (rather than east to the rest of the Triangle) its a bit of a conundrum. Certainly high frequency service from the main campus to the Chapel Hill North Campus would be appropriate and, given shifting residential patterns in the Western Triangle, I would think commuter service to Hillsborogh and Mebane (via an expanded Eubanks rd park and ride) would also be useful -- unfortunately I can't imagine that travel time to Durham on these tracks would ever be competitive. It would certainly be a shame for this line to grow weeds but the challenge is clearly finding the cash to increase speeds on the line enough to make the service useful to passengers-- particularly with at least three civil war era trestles  to deal with.

[ctl]

There is, or recently was, a small concrete plant in Carrboro that gets delivery by rail. But you're right; I can't imagine NS would keep the line open when (not if) UNC quits taking coal.

Norfolk Southern actually owns this line, so they'd have to decide what to do with the real estate. One would assume that NCDOT, TTA, or some other government entity would buy it -- even if there is no near-term intent to use it.

[ERJ170]

http://www.newsobser...-should-be.html

Here's an article endorsing the new Dillion site for the rail station. The Passenger Task Force provided the endorsement and sent the recommendation to Mayor McFarlane and the City Council. I do like the design myself, I just hope there are 3 elements included which I don't recall seeing in the original presentation.

1.  Room for a First Class Lounge or perhaps 2 (Amtrak Lounge and NC Lounge for Intra-state and eventual Regional routes)
2.  Parking garage (to perhaps hold up to 300 cars)
3.  Space for a hotel or even a b&b on-site! It would be awesomely Cool...

[ctl]

Good question about a first-class lounge. However, Amtrak 92 (southbound SIlver Star) is the only train that gets Raleigh-departing passengers in a sleeper. The Carolinian does provide Business Class, but a ticket in Business Class doesn't qualify for admission to Amtrak lounges. The in-state NCDOT trains are one-class only, and I suspect they'll stay that way. I don't see a first-class lounge as having a lot of demand.

As for a parking garage and related high-density or multi-use development, those were included in the original Raleigh Union Station concept that still might happen someday. Maybe. But for the time being, focus is on an improved train station only.

[ERJ170]

ctl, on 19 December 2011 - 05:54 AM, said:

Good question about a first-class lounge. However, Amtrak 92 (southbound SIlver Star) is the only train that gets Raleigh-departing passengers in a sleeper. The Carolinian does provide Business Class, but a ticket in Business Class doesn't qualify for admission to Amtrak lounges. The in-state NCDOT trains are one-class only, and I suspect they'll stay that way. I don't see a first-class lounge as having a lot of demand.

As for a parking garage and related high-density or multi-use development, those were included in the original Raleigh Union Station concept that still might happen someday. Maybe. But for the time being, focus is on an improved train station only.

Doesn't RGH already have a first class lounge? I believe it's the only one in NC with an Amtrak FC lounge. As for the other option, NC could have a lounge like airlines do.. where you pay to use it per year and if you have status, you get a discount. But a lounge to get away from it all would be worthwhile. I would love to see a lounge with seating, a noodle bar, a alcohol bar, and perhaps a yotel or spa or something.. I mean, i fyou are going to take the train, you are going to want to pamper yourself.

As for the parking, I don't think they should consider building the new building without including proper parking. That is probably one of the biggest problems with the current facility. It's 1 parking space for every 10 that's needed! Arrgh! If you ask me, they should let RDUAA be in charge of the building. They did a great job with Terminal 2. I'm sure they would have the foresight to build correct to allow for parking and retail and services and lounges and waiting space.

[ctl]

The Dillon site already has about 90 parking places.. way more than the current Amtrak site, although not as many as Cary.

[ERJ170]

ctl, on 19 December 2011 - 04:14 PM, said:

The Dillon site already has about 90 parking places.. way more than the current Amtrak site, although not as many as Cary.

Looking at the presentation for the site, they will use them until Phase 2 and then they will change some to landscaping and the others will turn to employee parking. So where will the passenger  waiting and longterm parking be???

[Jones133]

I think Hillsborough Street is still ripe for another hotel and maybe one on the FMW site or perhaps even the old Reynolds project site would end up with one pushed along by proximity to the transit station....

[Green_man]

With all the growth expected in Wake County and the current lack of reliable city and county-wide public transportation, I put together a map of what I thought would be the end-goal of an eventual public transportation system for a city that would not have to be so car-dependent.

A few points:  Bus-rapid transit in dedicated lanes is used for most routes other than the light rail already planned by Wake County with the hope that this will keep costs down while still providing a reliable system to avoid car traffic.   The plan also includes 4 transit 'hubs' (Fairgrounds, Crabtree, Atlantic Ave, and New Bern) in addtional to the downtown Union Station with the goal of giving North Raleigh residents (majority of population) the greatest number of origination and destination options.

http://maps.google.c...4725f7987&msa=0

Just a fun excercise out of curiosity I'd thought I'd share - not sure of how realistic a massive plan such as this is.  The proposed expanded bus service, commuter line, and then light rail line are starts though!  (as long as the funding plan makes the ballot and gets passed in November)

[Jones133]

I have been suggesting additional transit hubs for some time with express runs between the hubs.  There is some magic radius where a single hub no longer makes sense and though I do not know exactly what that is, after spending some time on CAT, I feel like we are way past it.