40 replies to this topic

[CtownMikey]

http://www.projo.com...wales_plans.pdf

http://www.projo.com...65.35ede79.html


yay maps!

[Cotuit]

[CtownMikey]

I like the plans.. but why not build higher instead of spreading out? That would mean they'd require less acres to purchase and hopefully that would give them full support from the Mayor.

So instead of having one building for college of business and one for the hospitality college.. build one on top of the other. And instead of having the new dorm for 500 students from the student center.. just build the dorms on top on the student center. And this parking garage and hotel.... Hotels have parking garages connected to them all the time... so why not make those into one building?

I really don't want to read that cost is the issue here :/

higher cost/height could mean more density and more room for taxable business AND room for that innovation economy we want

[runawayjim]

i agree with both the mayor and JWU on this one.  it would be nice to see them sell off their buildings on westminster to consolidate in the jewelry district.  however, i would also like to see the new land used to lure tax-paying businesses.

the dorm is said to be 6-7 stories.  they could go something like 12-15 stories.  most colleges don't combine a student center with a dorm, though it could work.  they should combine the parking garages and if the hotel really needs one, add a small one for the hotel in the hotel, not next to it.  and they could most definitely combine the college of business and the hospitality college in one building.  there's no reason they need to be separate.

[jencoleslaw]

From fundraising perspective, all those buildings are probably separate because they provide separate "naming" opportunities.

[runawayjim]

jencoleslaw, on Jun 30 2008, 07:48 AM, said:

From fundraising perspective, all those buildings are probably separate because they provide separate "naming" opportunities.

but usually, that type of fundraising is meant to help pay for the new building.  that's why it wouldn't necessarily matter if they combined them.  heck, they could give the building 2 names, one for the hospitality college and one for the college of business.

[09/21/38]

It would be hard to build a campus with only two or three high rise buildings.  Most campuses are spread out with some green space in the middle.  That is what they are attempting to create here.  And it looks like the planning is well underway.  Which is why they decided to start a PR campaign to prime the pump for their plan.

[chaz200]

While I think tall office buildings are great I don't see how that adds to an 18 hour neighborhood.  Our downtown core was a ghostown before residential and attractions became more pervasive.  I think migrating and moving the students into the jewlrey district will create a need for small businesses to cater to them. Plus I think the greenspace will add to the walkability of the area.  There are still plenty of places for office towers.  There are tons of properties in the district now that are sitting idle or are low slung industrial buildings that could be razed.

I also agree that J&W should go taller.  A good plan may be to add some extra floors and leave them unfinished for future expansion.  That way we get the height and hopefully prevent J&W from trying to buy up more land in the future and pulling it off the tax rolls.

Also while I think it's great to say we want all this prime office space and have a vision for the area are we going to be able to find tenants or for that matter developers?  We still have downcity that is clamoring for businesses and still have pleanty of empty parking lot parcels.

[runawayjim]

09/21/38, on Jun 30 2008, 08:43 AM, said:

It would be hard to build a campus with only two or three high rise buildings.  Most campuses are spread out with some green space in the middle.  That is what they are attempting to create here.  And it looks like the planning is well underway.  Which is why they decided to start a PR campaign to prime the pump for their plan.

while most college campuses are like that, most downtown urban campuses are not.  most downtown urban campuses have very little of their own greenspace (which JWU has on weybosset) and utilize city parks for their greenspace.  while i do think some greenspace should be part of the 195 land, i don't think as much as they're talking is necessary, and i don't think that much land should be used by institutional space.  we need as much taxable land as possible.  i'm not against some institutional use of the land, but in addition to JWU, i'm pretty sure brown is also looking at it for expansion and if we end up losing it all to brown and JWU, we won't be adding anything to the tax rolls.

[CtownMikey]

I wonder what the "economic" climate (locally and nationally) will be once the 195 land if open for development ..   exciting? I think so.

[Cotuit]

I'm perfectly happy to have the university build and maintain green space, takes pressure off the city to do such.

Looking at the plan, they are wanting what, a block and a half of 195 land, the rest is land they already own. I'm happy to see them leave Westminster, the building they have at Matthewson is dead space in the streetwall of Westminster, that really needs to be active retail to further the health of the Westminter District.

As for stacking buildings, or building larger structures, I would assume this is a long term plan, I can't imagine they will be breaking ground on 9 new buildings in 2011. They build one school, then build another, build one dorm, then another, and another as need/funds permit.

We're talking about 19.2 acres of 195 land, but there's probably twice that amount of developable land in Downcity, the JD, Cap Center, probably more. I'm not worried about J&W taking 4.5 acres. In fact I'm excited that J&W will probably be breaking ground on new buildings as soon as the bulldozers clear out, we need to ensure that buildings start going up right away, and the way the economy is now, I don't see that happening quick.

[Garris]

Quote

“There’s an overall vision that is emerging,” Kaplan said. “…we are all very aligned around a mixed-use vision with significant office space,” he said. “I do think that [Johnson & Wales] can fit into the vision that we’ve all been working on.”

Absolutely fascinating (and exciting) plans.  First, as Jim pointed out above, everyone here (Mayor, J&W) is right.  The Mayor is right about a mixed use 18 hour area that becomes a true, new neighborhood.  And we should all be happy that J&W wants to expand the flagship campus here rather than a low cost city elsewhere.  Many of the J&W building proposed are of decent height for a University (4-7 floors).  

I'm not aware of many universities with skyscrapers for anything other than dorms (correct me if I'm wrong).  Many urban campuses do design in greenspace (Yale, Penn, Columbia, Harvard, NYU, and several others pop immediately to mind) and few of those use skyscrapers for anything other than housing.  

Perhaps the hotel they will run can be taxed?  I'm very optimistic a middle ground can be found here between the city and University.  

- Garris

PS: I'm not sure how much 195 land Brown would want, considering they now own the majority (if not most?) of the Jewelry District at this point, and at least J&W is letting its wishes be known early (rather than what Brown did by essentially buying up the JD without warning).

[jencoleslaw]

runawayjim, on Jun 30 2008, 07:57 AM, said:

but usually, that type of fundraising is meant to help pay for the new building.  that's why it wouldn't necessarily matter if they combined them.  heck, they could give the building 2 names, one for the hospitality college and one for the college of business.

People who give money to build new buildings do not like to share naming rights.

[Sam H]

http://www.cleveland...eland/fenn2.jpg

http://z.about.com/d...7/0/-/-/csu.jpg

these are two cleveland state university towers...i think they're both used as dorms. The second is 450 ft. tall, the fifth tallest building in Cleveland.

[prudence]

Looks like Mirabar is in line for a big payday, if they in fact own their building.

[Pseudo_Work]

chaz200, on Jun 30 2008, 04:57 AM, said:

Also while I think it's great to say we want all this prime office space and have a vision for the area are we going to be able to find tenants or for that matter developers?  We still have downcity that is clamoring for businesses and still have pleanty of empty parking lot parcels.

But the parking lots are what they are because they're privately held, and the people who own them won't sell them, so there's little that anybody can do.  The 195 land will be owned by the city or the DOT until they sell it off to developers, and their interest is vested in tax revenue.  They're much more likely to make sure the land gets developed than some sleaze who's raking in 30 bucks a pop for parking on an event night with no taxes on it.  

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again, a better mass transit system would fix a LOT of these problems.

[CtownMikey]

prudence, on Jun 30 2008, 07:22 PM, said:

Looks like Mirabar is in line for a big payday, if they in fact own their building.

Mirabar should relocate to that church near Hotel Providence. huge space and room for outside block parties

[Pseudo_Work]

CtownMikey, on Jun 30 2008, 06:44 PM, said:

Mirabar should relocate to that church near Hotel Providence. huge space and room for outside block parties

If it weren't for the fact that it's still used as a church, I might agree with you.  

But either way, it's a very historic early Richard Upjohn design from the 1840s with a very well kept interior.  Its chimes are also tuned in some sort of way that's very significant, but I can't remember exactly what the deal is with them.  Anyway, it'd be blasphemy (no pun intended) to let Mirabar of all things use it.

[Frankie811]

prudence, on Jun 30 2008, 07:22 PM, said:

Looks like Mirabar is in line for a big payday, if they in fact own their building.

John Dorr, the owner of Mirabar has been turning down offers from J&W for yyyeeeeaaarrrsss!!!!!!!!!

[xine]

Garris, on Jun 30 2008, 01:09 PM, said:

I'm not aware of many universities with skyscrapers for anything other than dorms (correct me if I'm wrong).  Many urban campuses do design in greenspace (Yale, Penn, Columbia, Harvard, NYU, and several others pop immediately to mind) and few of those use skyscrapers for anything other than housing.

The Cathedral of Learning at University of Pittsburgh is a classroom building, the tallest in the US.

It must be said that it functions terribly as a classroom building - I cross-registered and took a Mandarin class there (didn't take, the only thing I can say in Chinese is 'you're ugly!')  You had to show up 30 minutes early because you had to take one of the few, slow elevators. Also the footprint is tiny so there are only a few small classrooms on each floor. It is set amongst acres of greenspace, though. Overall, it always seemed to me be a very silly building since it was so ostentatious and so very impractical. It has a fabulous vaulted gothic lobby, though - great fun to draw.