108 replies to this topic

[neon9]

RedStatesWork, on Jul 24 2009, 02:56 PM, said:

This board is about Urban growth and discussing policies that contribute to growth is appropriate.  Because of Federalism and the 10th Amendment (sorry if I offended with a Constitution citation), we have 50 different States that can enact their own policies for us as USA citizens can later measure what works and what doesn't.  The biggest Blue States with high Tax / Spend/ Regulation like CA, NY, NJ, MI are also the the states doing the worst budget and unemployment wise.  The biggest of the Red State with low taxes / regulation, TX, has the best job growth and state budget is in the black.  Therefore, we as Floridians who like a growing economy and the Urban Development which follows should have a forum to discuss and analyze what other states are doing to grow.

About UCF, one of the reasons (if not the best reason) students go to college is to have a marketable skill once out of school in order to get a good job.  These 5 majors cuts are all in the medical \ technology fields, all in demand (just google them and see hot they rank in pay\demand), and because of Supply/Demand, also high paying.  The City \ County Govt sees our regions economic growth potential by attracting (by of all things evil tax cuts) medical employers (like Burhman Institute) and technology firms to Innovation Way \ Research Park.  I wanted to point out how insane I see spending money attracting medical / technology employers on one hand, but then having the regions largest university cutting the majors that would best develop potential employees for those industries on the other hand.  To deny a liberal influence in academia is just as insane as me denying a conservative influence in the NRA.  With this liberal influence, you can see how political \ ideology could clowd the trustees judgement by cutting these 5 non-liberal ideological majors rather than having to cut programs from their college of LIBERAL arts (sorry to again say liberal, but it is the name of the college).  If I am now called a Neo-Nazi or wanting to start the next Crusades, so be it.

No one is calling you a 'neo-nazi'. They are calling you misinformed.

The 'invisible hand' has said that it's cheaper to provide degrees in liberal arts and that's what people are paying for. If you want central planning of schools and economic development, well then you might just be a liberal.

[JRS1]

^^
I have to agree with the original comment regarding cutting practical majors and leaving the liberal arts degrees.  That is a bunch of bull, especially for a school that made its name in the computer sciences and related majors.  Especially at a time when UCF sits in a great position to benefit from all of the entities it is currently affiliating with ala Lake Nona et al.  I know it has to do with $$$, but it sucks.

If UCF was a private school, maybe it would be different.

They just need to get good in football like UF and have the athletic dept. donate $$$ to the rest of the school.  Brighthouse Stadium and the Convocation Center are a great start.

[prahaboheme]

To suggest that liberal arts majors are not "practical" is rather assuming.

Edited by prahaboheme, 29 July 2009 - 07:52 AM.

[JRS1]

^^
I was a poli sci major in undergrad and that degree ain't worth a sh*t.  It's what I did in grad school and law school that actually has practical application career-wise.  I admit it was fun, but knowing that lots of my friends were business majors, accounting majors, engineering majors, architect majors, etc., the only thing that made me feel at all like I was doing the right thing was knowing that I was planning to continue on after my BA to get my MAURP and law degree.  that's just me.  what kind of job can you get with a poli sci degree?  working for a politician? becoming a political consultant? becoming a teacher?  it depends on what your ultimate goal is- for that degree. as for other liberal arts degree, I don't know b/c I didn't take them.

[prahaboheme]

I'll trust my experience is very different from yours.

[JRS1]

^^
we all have different experiences.  wait, I just remembered-- Public Administration-  I've got a buddy who majored in that.

My main comments are towards political science.  However, my cousin was a poli sci major at an Ivy League school, clerked in the Clinton White House, worked for Mayor Daley, became some sort of a consultant, and works for a major airline now.  He's got $$$ and a decent life.  But he had connections to get the ball rolling; most people don't.

But, with regards to comparing liberal arts to other techinical degrees, I think that it sucks that UCF cut those programs the way they did.  If a school like UCF has common borders with C Fla Res. Park & The Quadrangle, is close in proximity to Martin Lockheed and only 30 minutesd rive from the Cape, and they cut technical degrees, then what good are they to those industries?  That's the main point here I think.

[cwetteland]

JRS1, on Jul 30 2009, 04:29 PM, said:

^^
... I think that it sucks that UCF cut those programs the way they did.  If a school like UCF has common borders with C Fla Res. Park & The Quadrangle, is close in proximity to Martin Lockheed and only 30 minutes drive from the Cape, and they cut technical degrees, then what good are they to those industries?  That's the main point here I think.

You may be right but we aren't privvy to enough info to determine that. It all sounds good on the surface, but that might just be a knee-jerk reaction.

We don't know how many enroll in those degrees.  
We don't know if some of those degrees are better served in the community college level.  I've heard that the medical degrees cut are better served by CC and Valencia and SCC have said they are ready to take on those programs.
We don't know if other degrees fill those needs just as well.  There might be alot of overlap.
We don't know what the effect of laying of thousands of NASA engineers will be totechnology jobs in the area for the next few years.

I'm just saying, the board is mostly community business leaders, and I submit that they are keenly aware of what the industry needs are in the area.  I don't think they just threw darts at the dartboard.

Edited by cwetteland, 31 July 2009 - 11:59 AM.

[aent]

cwetteland, on Jul 31 2009, 01:41 PM, said:

You may be right but we aren't privvy to enough info to determine that. It all sounds good on the surface, but that might just be a knee-jerk reaction.

We don't know how many enroll in those degrees.  
We don't know if some of those degrees are better served in the community college level.  I've heard that the medical degrees cut are better served by CC and Valencia and SCC have said they are ready to take on those programs.
We don't know if other degrees fill those needs just as well.  There might be alot of overlap.
We don't know what the effect of laying of thousands of NASA engineers will be totechnology jobs in the area for the next few years.

I'm just saying, the board is mostly community business leaders, and I submit that they are keenly aware of what the industry needs are in the area.  I don't think they just threw darts at the dartboard.

They did post on the BOT website for the public a complete analysis including statistics about the quality of students of each program, including the cost per student compared to the cost of other programs in the college and the university, the quality of the admits who choose the program, 4 year graduation rate, program availability at other institutions, and other various statistics about all of the programs. Daytona State College is going to offer the lost medical degree program before we stop offering it, there is a reason why no university is offering this program. Its a 2 year program.

[JRS1]

this weekend I went to Lake Nona and saw the Burnham bldg. and UCF Med School.

Let me just say that the UCF Med School complex is really nice.  It's big, mind you.

Burnham is big too.

It's just those two buildings there in the middle of nothingness.  Oh, those two and an OUC chilled water station.

However, Nemours looks like it fronts 417 just off of the exit.  And the Va looks to be going inbetween Nemours and the UCF Med School.  The UF building is going in between those two as well.

It's like Sim City out there.  Those are the only things off of that exit.

One more thing.  There is a rail line that parallels 417 to the north and goes under the exit overpass.  THis is probably the spur that goes to the plant from Taft; I just didn't realize how south it was at that point.

I think the VA officially broke ground already in that ceremony.  So, the place should fill up pretty quick once that project is underway and the others follow suit.

As an aside, the UCF complex along with Burnham could've been as massive as the State Resource Center behind FAMU in downtown, if built downtown.  It would've redeveloped 2-3 square blocks in downtown.  If Nemours went there as well as the VA, then a good chunk of the area between OBT and I-4 could've been redeveloped with all of this medical/research development.  THrow in an extra exit ramp on 408 and I-4 and that would take care of the extra traffic created by those entities.

It would've been nice, but I think the goal is to build a new city out there right off of 417 (it's very visible, BTW) distinctive in nature which would attract more similar industries to locate there from out of state.

[cwetteland]

JRS1, on Aug 18 2009, 12:00 PM, said:

...
It would've been nice, but I think the goal is to build a new city out there right off of 417 (it's very visible, BTW) distinctive in nature which would attract more similar industries to locate there from out of state.

I think the biggest part of building where they are building was that Tavistock gave them the land and lots of it.  In wooing the state for funds to open a new medical school, free land was a big part of the deal.

Edited by cwetteland, 19 August 2009 - 11:11 AM.

[aent]

JRS1, on Aug 18 2009, 12:00 PM, said:

It's just those two buildings there in the middle of nothingness.  Oh, those two and an OUC chilled water station.

There is two buildings up for the UCF med school already.. so its 4 buildings including the chilled water station... with more coming very soon.

[JRS1]

I saw an article today about medical city in a magazine; it was an expose;  the renderings of Nemours and of the VA show them to both be quite larger than the UCF complex;

what's there now is nothing compare to what will be there very soon.  that place will be gangbusters with development; apparently the VA will be over 1 million sq ft of development alone.  and Nemours looks like it will be 7-9 stories tall at one point.

[prahaboheme]

Finally getting the attention it deserves:  Orlando Sentinel article

I like that the Sentinel is pinning the importance of Burnham and the medical city against Disney.  Competition for importance as an industry in Orlando can only make companies better neighbors.  Disney has long had the leisure to run their own show without considering the needs of this city.  You can already see that changing with small endorsements, such as their backing of high speed rail (with a stop at the convention center), the commuter rail, and DPAC.  Kudos to Disney World's new president for shifting the tide.

[aent]

JRS1, on Aug 19 2009, 06:02 PM, said:

I saw an article today about medical city in a magazine; it was an expose;  the renderings of Nemours and of the VA show them to both be quite larger than the UCF complex;

what's there now is nothing compare to what will be there very soon.  that place will be gangbusters with development; apparently the VA will be over 1 million sq ft of development alone.  and Nemours looks like it will be 7-9 stories tall at one point.

VA is 65 acres, Nemours is 60, UCF College of Medicine is 50. UCF's development is much more phased then the other 2...

[prahaboheme]

I was finally able to see the medical city w/ my own eyes while on holiday.  Aside from it's rural location, it's encouraging to witness the city engaging in real planning.

[lala67]

prahaboheme, on 08 January 2010 - 12:29 PM, said:

I was finally able to see the medical city w/ my own eyes while on holiday.  Aside from it's rural location, it's encouraging to witness the city engaging in real planning.

I'd call it real planning if/when they actually looked at using transit for transportation rather than continually widening roads to accommodate these developments. All the developmetns I've seen for the area all talk about widening everything to 6 lanes with more at intersections. Oh, but they'll be putting in trails and sidewalks that meander and make things look all 'quaint'. It's all very 'sprawly'.

bleh.

[cwetteland]

lala67, on 22 January 2010 - 11:55 AM, said:

I'd call it real planning if/when they actually looked at using transit for transportation rather than continually widening roads to accommodate these developments. All the developmetns I've seen for the area all talk about widening everything to 6 lanes with more at intersections. Oh, but they'll be putting in trails and sidewalks that meander and make things look all 'quaint'. It's all very 'sprawly'.

bleh.

Must agree. If you isolate it, yeah, looks great. But from an Orlando Metro perspective it's a spawl engine. I think it's great to have the medical city in Orlando, but just about anywhere other than where it is would be better. The only reason it's there is the land was free.  The only reason the land was free is because the owner, Tavistock (Lake Nona), could jump start growth on their remaining land.

[keone]

Here are a couple of photos from last week.. there are some more at my site Under Construction Forever

UCF College of Medicine:


UCF Biomedical Sciences building:


Nemours Children's Hospital:


VA Medical Center:


Lake Nona Blvd.:

[bic]

Good stuff. These photo updates by new users are just what the doctor ordered for this forum. Your work is much appreciated.  

[prahaboheme]

Agreed -- it's nice to see some of the vibrancy returning to the forum.  Keep up the great work!