601 replies to this topic

[jack]

A part of the agreement with OPAC and FUMCO was to abandon parts of south st to give FUMCO more land for development.

[Jaybee]

[cloudship]

It's not the worst design I have ever seen, but it certainly is not the best, either.

It's, well, carcitecture. Designed more around the motorist than anything else. Very unfriendly to the pedestrian. The main entrance and circulation is within the center - in a giant carport. Everything to the sides is all large walls. The outdoor performance place is a bit chasm like, and it's that straight edge boxy unfriendly building style. To be blunt, it's like bad 70's urban design all over again. Trendy for a few years and then it just looks sad and pathetic. For what the city is paying for it, within 10 years it is going to become another TD Center - unloved, bland, and long in the tooth. Sorry, but yeah, I don't think this thing is going to help Downtown become a destination at all.  May as well plop it down somewhere on I Drive - it's not like anyone is going to really interact with this place in the urban environment.

The fabric roof is OK - I like the big overhang but it does not seem too dramatic. Too cliche, really. And way to boxy. Like I said, it looks soooo 70s to me. The interior plans are real nice, though. some logistical stuff (two large halls sharing a lot of front space, women's bathroom looks like something out of a prison and they need more mens room space), but i like the halls. I guess it is just a let down when you think of how good a project like this could really bring a focus to downtown.

[JRS1]

I went to the website before and viewed the renderings bic posted.  I don't mind the roof overhang... I just think it should've been 2 levels taller.

woops.  didn't see the above post.  fabric roof?  bad idea.  not happy right now.

Edited by JRS1, 22 August 2008 - 04:32 PM.

[bic]

Jaybee, on Aug 22 2008, 06:18 PM, said:

That last shot looks to be of an earlier iteration of the design. Is that an older massing model?

The thing I like most about the design of the PAC is the idea of the long plaza leading up to the main building. The balconies flanking the sides of the plaza and the "stage" that is cantilevered over Magnolia are an obvious attempt to mimic the inside of a theater and it works. I'm not a big fan of the small arched awning over part of the plaza or the size/shape of the ponds in it but I'm sure those elements will be tweaked before the plans are set in stone.

[sunshine]

I am sorry, this doesnt looks like something that would cost 408 millions. It looks some college project. This pair with the unispiring design of the arena.... very disappointing.

[JRS1]

^^
I agree.  I am fond of those balconies over the plaza.  but I am very disappointed in the fabric element of the overhang.  that's an architectural element that this town can and should do without- OIA arrivals section included.  but the other-- the balconies, is a fascinating direction to go in; they could host those concerts there instead of in front of city hall (Eddie Money for example), which is the idea I guess.

[Pieson]

I actually like the UCF's new PAC designs better

this just doesnt seem very impressive, doesn't really stand out



we shall see though, could turn out great

[RedStar25]

bulldogger, on Aug 22 2008, 11:44 AM, said:

And what is up with the rounding of South Street?  What is the point in that?

Yes FUMCO is being given back some land after selling its land south of south street. The church is in desperate need of expanding and the city wanted to calm traffic on south street. So the solution was to curve south street out away from FMO. This gave FMO back a half acre of land and will slow traffic.

So Boomer136...
Why do you say there wont be a reall pipe organ in the acoustic hall? Isn't it apart of the budget?
They are a must have now adays for a PAC to be considerd world class. What are the dimentions of the Chamber (if you know)?

By the way FMO's architect's web page is
http://www.cdhpartners.com/index.html

Some of thier work includes

Edited by RedStar25, 22 August 2008 - 06:38 PM.

[Boomer136]

FLheat, on Aug 22 2008, 05:27 PM, said:

The Orlando Sentinel is supposed to do a feature in Sunday's Edition, so hopefully we can get more images.  Looking at the floorplan, I think all female tickets should have a $5 surcharge to pay for the additional restroom real estate--it looks like they get 3 times the space.  There better not be any women crowding the lobbies outside the restrooms during intermission.

1.  Women drive the arts.

2.  The additional men's rooms are by the bars.  A stroke of genius, I think, at least an attention to detail!  (M-Honey, I'll be right back.  F-But this is the third time... M-I know, I'll bring it up to the doc next physical, promise, gotta go...)

[Boomer136]

JRS1, on Aug 22 2008, 06:27 PM, said:

I went to the website before and viewed the renderings bic posted.  I don't mind the roof overhang... I just think it should've been 2 levels taller.

woops.  didn't see the above post.  fabric roof?  bad idea.  not happy right now.

Perhaps I'm mis-reading Liz, but solar panels?

[Boomer136]

RedStar25, on Aug 22 2008, 08:20 PM, said:

So Boomer136...
Why do you say there wont be a reall pipe organ in the acoustic hall? Isn't it apart of the budget?
They are a must have now adays for a PAC to be considerd world class. What are the dimentions of the Chamber (if you know)?

1. The cost, not just initial but maintenance.

2. Who'd use it?  If it goes in, much easier to use electronic to set in, take out, like a grand piano and patch into the house sound.  The upstage traveling beastie in Wisconsin is all pipe organ.  Loose the seats, you loose revenue.  Why permanently kill seats to have a pipe organ for how many dates in a year?  Don't think either the OPO or the folks that bring in guest orchestras would be very happy with that idea.  And to be quite honest, the CBD has a couple of great ones.  Get it, great!  They're just swell!  Oh I kill me, organ jokes.  Seriously, unless some group unknown until now ponies up the money, there won't be one.  No inside info, just common sense.  Perhaps a Baroque society can team up with some Camille Saint-Saëns fanboi's.

Final dimensions not set.  50-55 wide proscenium, so 55-65 wide house.  95-105' from plaster line to back of house in proscenium mode, maybe 110' when in the round shoebox?  All very guestimated.

[cloudship]

JRS1, on Aug 22 2008, 07:33 PM, said:

but I am very disappointed in the fabric element of the overhang.  that's an architectural element that this town can and should do without- OIA arrivals section included.

I can't for the life of me place which one, but it reminds me so much of an airport. Particularly with the fabric roof.

[RedStar25]

Boomer136, on Aug 22 2008, 09:48 PM, said:

1. The cost, not just initial but maintenance.

2. Who'd use it?  If it goes in, much easier to use electronic to set in, take out, like a grand piano and patch into the house sound.  The upstage traveling beastie in Wisconsin is all pipe organ.  Loose the seats, you loose revenue.  Why permanently kill seats to have a pipe organ for how many dates in a year?  Don't think either the OPO or the folks that bring in guest orchestras would be very happy with that idea.  And to be quite honest, the CBD has a couple of great ones.  Get it, great!  They're just swell!  Oh I kill me, organ jokes.  Seriously, unless some group unknown until now ponies up the money, there won't be one.  No inside info, just common sense.  Perhaps a Baroque society can team up with some Camille Saint-Saëns fanboi's.

Final dimensions not set.  50-55 wide proscenium, so 55-65 wide house.  95-105' from plaster line to back of house in proscenium mode, maybe 110' when in the round shoebox?  All very guestimated.

Well if you go to APOBA (Associated Pipe Organ Builders of America) you will see that the up keep for a pipe organ is less than that of an electronic. And the Pipe Organ will last longer.

On a side note digital/electronic organs can not produce three dimentional sound. Speakers project sound in one direction where as  pipes radiates sound in ever direction.

And yes Downtown Orlando does have some wonderfull instruments (Saint Lukes Cathedral and First Methodist). But it would be exceptional if Orlando's premier preformance venue house a new, forgive the pun, great organ.

How do you know the organ is not funded? It may be apart of the Over all cost. At most you were talking about $2-3 million for a new Large organ from a leading builder.  Say 100 ranks by Dobson or Casavant.

As for who would use it? Well the symphony and opera of course. Most major orchestral/opera scores have organ parts in them. The main purpose to undergird the bass line and fill out the sound with fundamental tone. Then of course you have your organ symphonies, etc...

I just want to see this PAC have everything it should...and In my opinion that would include a large pipe organ.
Tho if it dosn't I guess the symphony can still perform at First Methodist when an organ is needed.

By the way.. untill I see what the external finishes are, the rendering reminds me of this building...

Edited by RedStar25, 22 August 2008 - 08:42 PM.

[prahaboheme]

Am I missing something here?  The negative feedback seems a bit unfounded excluding a few legitimate improvement suggestions from Jaybee.

I am thrilled they have decided not to disrupt the street grid on Magnolia.  If anything, that in itself proves the architects were pedestrian-friendly.  Additionally, the Orange Ave plaza looks to be a unique addition downtown--i'm especially fond of the rectangular boxed in effect of the hotel/office space.  It is hard to draw too many other conclusions from this until we see more detailed renderings.

[scottb411]

The idea of the roof extension for the protection of the elements is very similar to the Angel Wing at First Presbyterian downtown but the architecture is similar to First Methodist across the street. I don't work or live downtown, but the outdoor plaza looks like it will be a nice area to have during the day with all of the benches as a new park. It reminds of the proposal for centerplace, which I'm sure is off the board of getting built:

http://www.orlandosk...?parentCatId=41

If restaurants and retail line both sides of the outdoor plaza, I think this will be a really fun place to be at night. Maybe this will be Orlando's way of getting retail back into the downtown core. The second rendering of the palm trees makes me think of the Cheesecake/Brio area at Millenia but on a larger scale.

From the outside, I think Orlando's PAC looks like it will be more exciting and have a lot more going on than Miami's PAC which looks like it is surrounded by a parking lot:

http://farm1.static....6817c47.jpg?v=0
http://farm1.static....e38f74e.jpg?v=0

I also took a look at Atlanta's Symphony Center and it looks like an 80's epcot building:

http://www.atlantasy...Picture018.aspx

A look at their new PAC doesn't really excite me either:

http://www.flickr.co...izum/450959472/

I'm sure that the renderings were never going to be able to satisfy what most where looking for but I think this is exactly what Orlando needs. Just my two cents.

[uncreativeusername]

Maybe this is a dumb question, and I might be missing something, but aren't the hotel and office building slated to go up in future phases, i.e. as the demand/developers materialize?  If so, what happens to the plaza in the meantime?  Paved center with empty lots on the side?

[Jaybee]

Ummm, before everyone decides that this is a fabric roof, at least do a little research...

"A great steel roof, resembling the outstretched wings of a bird in flight, will draw visitors into the new Dr. P. Phillips Orlando Performing Arts Center..."

One extra thing, it was funny how the model had trees in the central courtyard, but the architect didn't bother with a streetscape around the building in the model.  The plans show some thin points in the streetscape around the building.  Hopefully there won't be any mistakes ala the Disney in LA - there are very bad streescapes without trees in the back of that structure.

I guess the Lincoln Center comparison is growing on me...

[jack]

The building is $350 million. $70 million is for infrastructure. $480 million is the arena.

[prahaboheme]

Sentinel reports:
Orlando's 'classic-looking' performing-arts center draws early raves