113 replies to this topic

[Mith242]

zman9810, on Jul 29 2009, 12:48 PM, said:

It seems the school district is struggling to make the case for the high school project and required millage increase. Last week they had to ask the Stronger Fayetteville Campaign Committee to remove a rendering from their website of what the school might look like for fear that it might be misrepresenting the project. This week it was revealed that the millage increase ballot will show $115,825,000  as the bond issue instead of the $113 million figure that has been put forth as the price of the new school. The extra $3 million will be for costs of the issue. The ballot will also show the length of the issue as 35 years instead of 30.

There is now an organized opposition to the millage increase. Arkansas Unite NWA, has begun a campaign called Just Say No to rally against the increase. They have a Facebook page as an online presence and you need a Facebook account in order to view it.

It's a shame but at this point I think I'd be surprised if it passes.  The way everything has been handled I think is turning off some people.  It was going to have a hard enough time getting passed in the current economy.  But I think there's still some people mad about it being kept in the current location and some mad because they're sticking with one school instead of two schools and so on.  Then you start having problems with different numbers coming out and some people using a rendering that hasn't been approved and so on.  I can still hope it will pass, but as I said earlier I'd be surprised.

[zman9810]

Mith242, on Jul 29 2009, 02:24 PM, said:

It's a shame but at this point I think I'd be surprised if it passes.  The way everything has been handled I think is turning off some people.  It was going to have a hard enough time getting passed in the current economy.  But I think there's still some people mad about it being kept in the current location and some mad because they're sticking with one school instead of two schools and so on.  Then you start having problems with different numbers coming out and some people using a rendering that hasn't been approved and so on.  I can still hope it will pass, but as I said earlier I'd be surprised.

Most of the opposition seems to be about the price tag and the timing during a deep recession. If they had waited a year and went with a less expensive plan I think it would have good chance of passing. I actually haven't heard or read anything about the location being a problem but have heard some diehards wanting two smaller schools and even some not wanting the 9th grade included in the high school. At this point I guess they are too far along to reconsider timing and costs..

[zman9810]

I'll add that if we are going to ever have a new school we need to consider some issues resolved. The one or two high schools, adding the ninth grade and location have been debated to a point where they have been settled as well as they ever will be.

The question now is have we designed a plan that the majority of the community will support and vote for a millage increase to build.

Edited by zman9810, 30 July 2009 - 01:44 AM.

[Snaple4]

Does anyone have a copy of the proposed mill increase or know if it will expire at the end of its usefull life?

[zman9810]

Snaple4, on Aug 6 2009, 08:51 AM, said:

Does anyone have a copy of the proposed mill increase or know if it will expire at the end of its usefull life?

I don't think the ballot is finalized yet- I imagine it won't be until just before time to vote.

I don't think there is a sunset clause- that would be a good selling point if there was. The school district would be using it to gain support for the millage increase. There have been cases where the millage collected has been reduced in the past but I haven't seen anything about that being the case with this. Good question- looks like it's time for some research.

The district has stubbed it's toe again- one of the strongest supporters of the new school and one of the best known figures in Fayetteville public school history has resigned just weeks before the election. Athletic Director and Assistant Superintendent Dick Johnson left for what can only be called vague reasons after meeting with the new Superintendent Vicki Thomas. It will be intereresting to see what comes of all this.

edit- looks like it will end in 30-35 years when the bond issue is paid off.

Edited by zman9810, 08 August 2009 - 11:08 PM.

[zman9810]

This one of the exhibits at the Fayetteville Public Library of ideas for a new Fayetteville High School. There are several models on display and no crediting information about them but they are by University of Arkansas undergraduate architecture students with one model by the UA Community Design Center. This particular model shows how it is possible to have an amazing new school without spreading many buildings over the entire campus. The design of this building would remove many of the topography issues and provide spectacular architecture, more green space and additional parking. It has the added bonus of an ampitheater at the top of the hill where the large parking lot is now. While the exact location of the building might not be possible due to the existing building it is a great idea that might be considered one day.

The orientation of this is looking from the south from MLK Blvd. A 'tour' of the exhibits is scheduled for Saturday, August 22 at noon by UA students and staff.

Edited by zman9810, 09 August 2009 - 12:02 AM.

[zman9810]

Anyone wanting to vote in the millage election has be be registered by Monday, Aug. 17th. You can vote early (the only way to go ) starting Sept 8 with the election taking place Sept 15th.

I read where one supporter said that this would be the only chance to have a new high school- that is obviously a campaign mesage and not how things reallly are. There will be a new high school and most of the difficult decisions have been made - there will be one school, it will include the ninth grade and be at the present location. Choosing to have the election this year was ill advised and bringing forth plans that are too expensive was the deal breaker. If the millage increase fails it will be time to look at ways to scale back the the physical plant itself while keeping the essentials that will ensure that the students get a great education. That is the priority- the students' education- not keeping up with some other school or having a 'trophy' faciity. In a couple of years when the economy is back in a growth cycle it will be time to try for a millage increase again.  

The way to keep from having a new high school is to bring up again the debates about one or two schools, the ninth grade addition and the location. That will ensure a new school is not built. The supporters of the present plan need to keep their focus and not get sidetracked and lose some of the support they have now.

Edited by zman9810, 14 August 2009 - 07:35 AM.

[Mith242]

zman9810, on Aug 14 2009, 08:32 AM, said:

Anyone wanting to vote in the millage election has be be registered by Monday, Aug. 17th. You can vote early (the only way to go ) starting Sept 8 with the election taking place Sept 15th.

I read where one supporter said that this would be the only chance to have a new high school- that is obviously a campaign message and not how things really are. There will be a new high school and most of the difficult decisions have been made - there will be one school, it will include the ninth grade and be at the present location. Choosing to have the election this year was ill advised and bringing forth plans that are too expensive was the deal breaker. If the millage increase fails it will be time to look at ways to scale back the the physical plant itself while keeping the essentials that will ensure that the students get a great education. That is the priority- the students' education- not keeping up with some other school or having a 'trophy' facility. In a couple of years when the economy is back in a growth cycle it will be time to try for a millage increase again.  

The way to keep from having a new high school is to bring up again the debates about one or two schools, the ninth grade addition and the location. That will ensure a new school is not built. The supporters of the present plan need to keep their focus and not get sidetracked and lose some of the support they have now.

Like you said, the bad thing is if this millage doesn't pass then we're going to go through that big mess again.  While in some ways it might be nice to readdress some of those issues I think it's going to end up as another big mess.  I hate to think of it as a 'trophy' school.  But Fayetteville has always placed a lot of emphasis on education since it's early days.  The reason the U of A is located here is because the city fought hard for it and beat out other cities.  While the students needs do come first, I would also like to have one of the best if not the best high school facility in the area.  Like an affirmation of the city's importance on education.  At least that's the way I see it.    

[zman9810]

Mith242, on Aug 14 2009, 01:13 PM, said:

Like you said, the bad thing is if this millage doesn't pass then we're going to go through that big mess again.  While in some ways it might be nice to readdress some of those issues I think it's going to end up as another big mess.  I hate to think of it as a 'trophy' school.  But Fayetteville has always placed a lot of emphasis on education since it's early days.  The reason the U of A is located here is because the city fought hard for it and beat out other cities.  While the students needs do come first, I would also like to have one of the best if not the best high school facility in the area.  Like an affirmation of the city's importance on education.  At least that's the way I see it.    

I think I understand your postion and it is shared by others in the community. If I understand, you see the new school as having an educational purpose but also a symbolic value. To me the paramont reason for the new school is it's educational purpose. The symbolic value will be shown in the quality of education and graduates that the school produces. There are some who see the new school as a community center, which I also don't think is it's purpose. I think the consideration of the symbolic value is the primary reason the cost of the plan is so high. As it is, the cost seems to be the primary focus of opposition to the plan and millage increase and the supporters of the plan have put the resolved issues beind them.

I will be voting for the millage increase and think the plan put forth is very attractive- it is just not viable and is ill timed. I originally was for two schools and against the additiion of the ninth grade but in the spirit of compromise and concern for the education of the students put those views aside. I think that is what many others have done and with a plan that has a lower cost and at a later date many of those opposing the millage increase will drop that opposition.

Edited by zman9810, 14 August 2009 - 11:26 PM.

[Snaple4]

How Buildings Affect Student Achievement to Be Focus of First Lecture in 2009-10 Series

The fall's first speaker in an education reform lecture series at the University of Arkansas will address whether money spent on school buildings tends to affect student achievement. Locally, the topic is particularly timely as Fayetteville voters consider a millage proposal to raise funds for the construction of a new high school. With the recent release of federal stimulus money to help schools, though, the question has national ramifications, too.

Steven A. Peterson, a professor of politics and public affairs at Pennsylvania State University-Harrisburg, will speak at noon Friday, Aug. 28, on "Building Construction Expenditures and Student Performance." The lecture is free and open to the public. Reservations are requested for a light lunch served with the lecture.

Peterson, who directs the School of Public Affairs at Penn State Harrisburg, has authored or co-authored 20 books a a nd more than 100 publications. In the paper he will present for the lecture, Peterson compares the effects of school construction expenditures with other possible uses of school resources to improve student achievement, including raising teacher salaries and administrative decentralization.

Voters in the Fayetteville School District will go to the polls Tuesday, Sept. 15, to decide whether to approve a 4.9-mill property tax increase to fund construction of a new high school. The added 4.9 mills of property tax would generate $113 million for the projected $110 million facility. An appointed committee is reviewing qualifications submitted by a number of architectural firms seeking to build the new school.

All lectures will be held at noon in the Graduate Education Building, Room 343. RSVP for a light lunch at http://www.uark.edu/...eries/RSVP.html.

CONTACTS:
Jay P. Greene, chair, education reform
College of Education and Health Professions
479-575-3162
jpg@uark.edu

Heidi Stambuck, director of communications
College of Education and Health Professions
479-575-3138
stambuck@uark.edu

Edited by Snaple4, 21 August 2009 - 10:19 PM.

[zman9810]

That will be an interesting lecture. It's clear how facilties that are inadequate or in disrepair could have negative affects on the students' education. This presentation will probably drive that point home very well.

I am concerned about how much the Fayetteville school district has depended on outside consultants and influences that seem to be unaware of the local realities that will affect this election. Concordia had great ideas but they did not tailor those ideas to what costs the voting district patrons will support. The most attractive plans are worthless if they do not come to fruition.

The school district keeps implying that the plans were created with full community input and support and that just isn't so. It hasn't been stated as to what the total population is within the school district boundaries is but it is without a doubt that the large majority of residents within those boundaries did not give input as to what the plans were. If Fayetteville itself has over 70,000 residents then it is obvious that the number who attended the planning sessions in May? did not represent the whole community. There will be many who did not give input that will vote in the millage election. Between the economic conditions that we are in now and the misinformation that has been spread about the millage increase many of those will vote against it.

Considering the importance of this vote and the size and importance of the new high school project it would be wise of the school district to have exit polling to find out why those voting against the increase did so. This would be extremely helpful in forming a new strategy for another attempt at building a new high school.

[zman9810]

With less than three weeks before the Sept. 15th election it is looking like it will be a very close vote- much closer than it did a month or so ago. The district is doing a better job of getting their message out than those against the millage increase are. The district is getting much more publicity than the other side and athough some of it is negative the positive points seem to be helping a lot. It was disappointing to read that Dick Johnson is being considered for a position at Prairie Grove schools after the way he unexplainedly left Fayetteville. That and other unexplained questions don't seem to be having a large negative impact.

It should make for an interesting election night in Fayetteville.

[Mith242]

zman9810, on Aug 26 2009, 10:35 PM, said:

With less than three weeks before the Sept. 15th election it is looking like it will be a very close vote- much closer than it did a month or so ago. The district is doing a better job of getting their message out than those against the millage increase are. The district is getting much more publicity than the other side and although some of it is negative the positive points seem to be helping a lot. It was disappointing to read that Dick Johnson is being considered for a position at Prairie Grove schools after the way he unexplainedly left Fayetteville. That and other unexplained questions don't seem to be having a large negative impact.

It should make for an interesting election night in Fayetteville.

Yeah this could get 'interesting'.  Of course if it ends up really close you'll have all the drama of each side calling for recounts and so on.  If it does pass I think it would be by a somewhat close margin.  I guess we'll just have to see what happens.

[butttrumpet]

I will be surprised if this passes.  $100 million is too much for a high school, considering Har Ber was built for 1/3 of that.

[aerotive]

Snaple4, on Aug 21 2009, 10:18 PM, said:

How Buildings Affect Student Achievement to Be Focus of First Lecture in 2009-10 Series

This was just a little too well timed.

[Mith242]

Here's a good article explaining why Fayetteville's proposed high school is more expensive than other high schools built.  

http://www.nwaonline...09azhscosts.txt

Springdale's and Rogers' high schools often get quoted in being built much cheaper.  But the state has new standards for one.  Neither Springdale's nor Rogers' newest high schools fit those qualifications.  So if either for some reason had to build another new high school both would come in more expensive.  I know people will still say there's a big difference in costs.  But I still think if you factor in the new state requirements along with the fact they aren't building on unused land like the other cities did.  In fact they're reusing the current land and having to do it while school will be going on which is also obviously going to drive costs up.  You don't want to cut corners on the students safety.  I also don't want to see us build something fulfilling 'minimum requirements'.  If we're going to build something let's build something nice that won't be outdated a few years from now.  Anyway some other things mentioned in the article.  Helping to break down the high school by having certain areas as smaller learning centers.  Having areas that appeal to students that have particular interests such as science or business.  That way it helps keep students from feeling 'lost and overwhelmed' in a big single high school building.  Also they're hoping to have the state's first LEED high school.  That does make it more expensive initially but you save more money in the long run with cheaper operating costs.  They're also trying to put emphasis on technology.  Not using the 'bare bones' method that Rogers and Springdale used.  Those schools most likely will have to end up having to spend more money to update their schools in the near future.  The article also mentions the last school Bentonville tried to get passed wasn't particularly cheap either.  It was billed at $99 Mil, not much cheaper than the proposed Fayettteville high school.

[Mith242]

Well no matter what everyone's view is on the high school issue, early voting started today on the millage issue.

[zman9810]

Election day tomorrow- Tuesday Sept. 15- polls open at 7:30 AM and close at 7:30 PM. There have been over 1700 early voters- if that is any indication of the turnout tomorrow it should be a good one.

[Mith242]

While I'm a little disappointed I'm not surprised at all that the millage vote was shot down 59% to 41%.  There was just too many problems that got people riled up.  I suppose if there's some good news is I think some people want to support the high school but with a different plan.  So I guess we'll start this process all over.  But I worry about what happens in the next process.  I wonder if they pick a different route to go, maybe two high schools or a different locations.  If some of the people who favored this current issue will vote that down.  I just hope this doesn't end up becoming a big mess where nothing gets approved with the high school slowly in decline.

[zman9810]

Mith242, on Sep 16 2009, 05:29 AM, said:

While I'm a little disappointed I'm not surprised at all that the millage vote was shot down 59% to 41%.  There was just too many problems that got people riled up.  I suppose if there's some good news is I think some people want to support the high school but with a different plan.  So I guess we'll start this process all over.  But I worry about what happens in the next process.  I wonder if they pick a different route to go, maybe two high schools or a different locations.  If some of the people who favored this current issue will vote that down.  I just hope this doesn't end up becoming a big mess where nothing gets approved with the high school slowly in decline.

The primary focus of the opposition seemed to be the high cost and timing of the vote. It is possible to have a beautiful new building that can be used for the separate small learning communities without the very high expense. When the economy in back to a full growth mode there will be a much better chance of passing a millage increase. This was just an ill advised attempt that should be learned from.

Going back and undoing the decisions that have already be made about the number of schools, the addition of the ninth grade and location will set the whole process back many years. Many of the supporters understood the need to work together and compromise on these issues- no one will get every detail just the way they want it.  There will likely never be a consensus  on every one of those decisions so the district needs to show leadership and look at what can be agreed on by a majority- the cost and timing of the vote.