12 replies to this topic

[coolbrezze]

I've always wonder what happen to many of Michigan cities, for crime to be high, poverty, and lost of population. Although many cities are starting to make large improvements in negative areas. So what do  you think went wrong with your city, what improvements can be made/ have been made. How is your city now?

-Lansing, Michigan seem to have held onto the auto-industry as a major job field ( surprise due to  it being the capitol city). Crime was also high, and many would refer to it as a ghost town past dawn. Improvements are being made in many areas, including crime which seem to have lowered.

-Grand Rapids, Michigan also seem to have been close to the auto-industry with high crime. I remember in my early childhood years I would ask my mom if we could visit Grand Rapids, and she would tell me it's not safe there ( as Lansing). Seems like all have changed there, and would even hear people in local stores ( such as Meijers in Lansing) make reference on how Grand Rapids has improved. fl

-Flint, Saginaw and Detroit all seem to be major auto-industry places and now that jobs are leaving so is population. Crime rate seems to be high, and Detroit may lack diversity many want.

-Ann Arbor may in the long run may not do so well if it's depending completely on the University of Michigan- Ann Arbor.

[LA Dave]

coolbrezze, on Dec 29 2008, 02:15 PM, said:

I've always wonder what happen to many of Michigan cities, for crime to be high, poverty, and lost of population. Although many cities are starting to make large improvements in negative areas. So what do  you think went wrong with your city, what improvements can be made/ have been made. How is your city now?

-Lansing, Michigan seem to have held onto the auto-industry as a major job field ( surprise due to  it being the capitol city). Crime was also high, and many would refer to it as a ghost town past dawn. Improvements are being made in many areas, including crime which seem to have lowered.

-Grand Rapids, Michigan also seem to have been close to the auto-industry with high crime. I remember in my early childhood years I would ask my mom if we could visit Grand Rapids, and she would tell me it's not safe there ( as Lansing). Seems like all have changed there, and would even hear people in local stores ( such as Meijers in Lansing) make reference on how Grand Rapids has improved. fl

-Flint, Saginaw and Detroit all seem to be major auto-industry places and now that jobs are leaving so is population. Crime rate seems to be high, and Detroit may lack diversity many want.

-Ann Arbor may in the long run may not do so well if it's depending completely on the University of Michigan- Ann Arbor.

Grand Rapids was never "close to the auto-industry," at least in the same sense that Detroit, Lansing, Flint, Saginaw, Livonia, Pontiac or a number of Michigan cities were.  Grand Rapids formerly had three GM plants, two of them Fisher Body plants (one which has already closed and one which is closing shortly) and a Diesel Equipment Division plant (now Penske, I believe).  There were and are a number of auto parts facilities, but no assembly plants.  GM never played the role in the local economy that it played in the other Michigan cities listed, nor did Ford or Chrysler.  The reasons for this are historical, due to the opposition of civic leaders (many with ties to the furniture industry) who fought against auto plants with their higher wages (as compared to furniture factory wages) coming to GR.  Historically, the UAW did not have the political clout in the GR area that it did in the rest of the state.  And, the first GM plant was not established in the GR area until 1936, with the other two following in the 1940s.  There were no Ford or Chrysler plants at all.

As for comparing Grand Rapids and these other cities, please visit GR and then tell us what you think.  If that is not possible, go on the GR UP board and look at the pictures of new development and redevelopment in the downtown area, including the many medical and research facilities being built on the "Medical Mile" (including the MSU Medical School), the new convention center, VanAndel Arena, the public museum, the renovated public library, the Meijer Gardens, etc. etc.  The Grand Rapids Symphony is a fine regional orchestra, and the finest of its kind in the state outside of the Detroit Symphony.  Grand Rapids has a Class A baseball team, a minor league hockey franchise (at the level just below the NHL) as well as an Arena Football League team.  Grand Valley State University, one of the newest of the public universities, is already challenging MSU for quality of student body, and has graduate programs within Grand Rapids and a main campus 15 miles away.  

And, speaking of universities, it is a blessing that Ann Arbor is dependent on the University of Michigan.  Universities are engines of growth, of high-tech jobs and of young populations, three things that are sorely missing in many Michigan cities.  Even losing the Pfizer labs may turn out to be a blessing, since U-M can turn that property into research facilities that will attract high-tech companies eager to be in the same areas as one of the finest universities in the world.  Frankly, given the many terrible things that have happened to Michigan in the last 30 years, the continuing vitality of its public university system, especially the flagship schools, is one of the very few bright spots.

[Lmichigan]

I don't get you, coolbreeze; and I really don't know why folks continue to entertain your silliness.

[LA Dave]

Lmichigan, on Dec 29 2008, 06:44 PM, said:

I don't get you, coolbreeze; and I really don't know why folks continue to entertain your silliness.

I was trying to enlighten him, but I suppose that troll feeding is not the best idea.

[GRDadof3]

Lmichigan, on Dec 29 2008, 09:44 PM, said:

I don't get you, coolbreeze; and I really don't know why folks continue to entertain your silliness.

I think it might be an age thing.     I too scratch my head at some of his posts.

[coolbrezze]

LA Dave, on Dec 29 2008, 07:37 PM, said:

Grand Rapids was never "close to the auto-industry," at least in the same sense that Detroit, Lansing, Flint, Saginaw, Livonia, Pontiac or a number of Michigan cities were. Grand Rapids formerly had three GM plants, two of them Fisher Body plants (one which has already closed and one which is closing shortly) and a Diesel Equipment Division plant (now Penske, I believe). There were and are a number of auto parts facilities, but no assembly plants. GM never played the role in the local economy that it played in the other Michigan cities listed, nor did Ford or Chrysler. The reasons for this are historical, due to the opposition of civic leaders (many with ties to the furniture industry) who fought against auto plants with their higher wages (as compared to furniture factory wages) coming to GR. Historically, the UAW did not have the political clout in the GR area that it did in the rest of the state. And, the first GM plant was not established in the GR area until 1936, with the other two following in the 1940s. There were no Ford or Chrysler plants at all.

As for comparing Grand Rapids and these other cities, please visit GR and then tell us what you think. If that is not possible, go on the GR UP board and look at the pictures of new development and redevelopment in the downtown area, including the many medical and research facilities being built on the "Medical Mile" (including the MSU Medical School), the new convention center, VanAndel Arena, the public museum, the renovated public library, the Meijer Gardens, etc. etc. The Grand Rapids Symphony is a fine regional orchestra, and the finest of its kind in the state outside of the Detroit Symphony. Grand Rapids has a Class A baseball team, a minor league hockey franchise (at the level just below the NHL) as well as an Arena Football League team. Grand Valley State University, one of the newest of the public universities, is already challenging MSU for quality of student body, and has graduate programs within Grand Rapids and a main campus 15 miles away.

And, speaking of universities, it is a blessing that Ann Arbor is dependent on the University of Michigan. Universities are engines of growth, of high-tech jobs and of young populations, three things that are sorely missing in many Michigan cities. Even losing the Pfizer labs may turn out to be a blessing, since U-M can turn that property into research facilities that will attract high-tech companies eager to be in the same areas as one of the finest universities in the world. Frankly, given the many terrible things that have happened to Michigan in the last 30 years, the continuing vitality of its public university system, especially the flagship schools, is one of the very few bright spots.

I doubt Grand Rapids was as close to the auto-industry as Detroit, Flint etc... which is why I included Detroit, Flint, and Saginaw together ( did you observe that?)
I've have visited Grand Rapids, and when I spoke of it on this thread it was from what I knew of it's past, then I countinue on the present.
Ofcourse it's good for Ann Arbor to have University of Michigan- Ann Arbor ( like East Lansing with MSU) although depending completely on the school I think is not a good thing, and this is just my opinion. Now I've read yours, and I see what you mean... but our views are ofcourse differenet.

[coolbrezze]

Lmichigan, on Dec 29 2008, 09:44 PM, said:

I don't get you, coolbreeze; and I really don't know why folks continue to entertain your silliness.

Lmich it's really disappointing that you would post this comment on a thread I started, now this is silly. I've done nothing silly at all, and I've have already pushed avoiding you ( due to harassing with private comments) by placing you on block. Right now I just will assume your online to push others ( like me) around with out of hand post/ private messages.

LA Dave, on Dec 30 2008, 01:21 PM, said:

I was trying to enlighten him, but I suppose that troll feeding is not the best idea.

And then to do name calling? Really, if you all are adults... what's the excuse not to act like one online?

GRDadof3, on Dec 30 2008, 04:30 PM, said:

I think it might be an age thing. I too scratch my head at some of his posts.

I'am a junior in high school, and I'm sure teenagers my age still have a lot of maturing to do. Although after being on urbanplanet.org and seeing post ( like one's on this thread) it only shows you how many people actually haven't got to that stage yet.


Really, if all your going to do is critize my thread, then your comment simply isn't welcome here.

[jbr12]

The comments above were very warranted based on the fact that your posts, with this one being a prime example, continually are ill-informed and full of misinformation. LA Dave replied with a very lengthy and information packed post explaining why your example of Grand Rapids listed above as quote "also seem to have been close to the auto-industry with high crime". As LA Dave said, GR was NEVER close to the Auto Industry and the 'high crime' you speak of is virtually non-existant.

A number of your posts you state as fact, but things couldn't be further from the truth. The fact that Ann Arbor "may not do so well if it's depending completely on the University of Michigan- Ann Arbor" is a completely ridiculous thought. Michigan is one of the top Universities in the WORLD, drawing students from all corners of the world.

When referring to your age, I think GRDad is referring to your lack of experience with various aspects of all the cities you listed above. Your example of not being able to go to Grand Rapids when you were younger (~10 years ago??) just fits in with the rest of the stereotypes you're casting in your entire post. To categorize the entire city of Grand Rapids as 'high crime' because of a preconceived notion from your mother is just incorrect.

If what you were trying to do is tie a city's history to where its going today, perhaps if you would've stated your intent better in the beginning, it wouldn't have got so off topic and people would've had more to go on.

Edited by jbr12, 30 December 2008 - 07:12 PM.

[coolbrezze]

jbr12, on Dec 30 2008, 08:07 PM, said:

The comments above were very warranted based on the fact that your posts, with this one being a prime example, continually are ill-informed and full of misinformation. LA Dave replied with a very lengthy and information packed post explaining why your example of Grand Rapids listed above as quote "also seem to have been close to the auto-industry with high crime". As LA Dave said, GR was NEVER close to the Auto Industry and the 'high crime' you speak of is virtually non-existant.

A number of your posts you state as fact, but things couldn't be further from the truth. The fact that Ann Arbor "may not do so well if it's depending completely on the University of Michigan- Ann Arbor" is a completely ridiculous thought. Michigan is one of the top Universities in the WORLD, drawing students from all corners of the world.

When referring to your age, I think GRDad is referring to your lack of experience with various aspects of all the cities you listed above. Your example of not being able to go to Grand Rapids when you were younger (~10 years ago??) just fits in with the rest of the stereotypes you're casting in your entire post. To categorize the entire city of Grand Rapids as 'high crime' because of a preconceived notion from your mother is just incorrect.

If what you were trying to do is tie a city's history to where its going today, perhaps if you would've stated your intent better in the beginning, it wouldn't have got so off topic and people would've had more to go on.

jbr12 your comment is only another example of one that is not welcome, and inmaturity you have decided to show. Although since you seem to insist on a reply.....
The comments above were not very warrented, and LaDave came towards me all wrong... as you did now. All that I've listed above were my opinion, and you seem to lack the understanding of that ( like other posters). I said Grand Rapids was close to the auto-industry, again my opinion. Although I listed Detroit, Flint, and Saginaw seperate when mentioning auto-industry another time to avoid the misunderstanding of ridiculous posters ( like yours for example).
Again I do not need anyone to remind me that University of Michigan- Ann Arbor is a top university ( even speaking of national), I know that as a junior in high school. Although I'am educated well enough to know that depending completely on a university in the long run can be bad ( did I say it will be bad... no, I said it may... difference).
What ever GRDad was trying to say, it can be translated different ways... ( like probably my original post/ question). Really, all of this was my opinion and did not bold a fact in front of anything... and my intentions of this thread was made clear enough with my first post.

Again, I think it's ridiculous that I have to keep defending myself from attacks of posters ( like you)... Do not see where it was that important to attack/ critize my post ( nothing that would call for such was done, and even at times when it is.... it's most often avoided to do such a thing).

Edited by coolbrezze, 30 December 2008 - 07:47 PM.

[Lmichigan]

jbr12 was being kind, if anything, purposefully going out of his way to helpfully critical.  The problem is that you don't seem to have any kind of thought filter, it's as if you throw a bucket of paint against a wall just to see how much sticks.  You're post more often than not simply don't make any sense.  I mean, it's either terrible grammar, offering opinions of places and things based in little or no research, or both.

I'd hope that you'd realize that until you learn and study more, that's it's always better to listen than try to teach those with more understanding of these issues, than you.  You can't make totally ridiculous statements and expect them to go uncalled, and the problem is that you've done it from Day One of posting on here.  Quite frankly, you're a distraction.  Whether it's purposeful or not doesn't change that.  So, sit back, relax and most importantly, listen and learn.  Seriously, it's not us; it's you.

Edited by Lmichigan, 30 December 2008 - 08:56 PM.

[Raildudes dad]

coolbrezze, on Dec 29 2008, 05:15 PM, said:

I've always wonder what happen to many of Michigan cities, for crime to be high, poverty, and lost of population. Although many cities are starting to make large improvements in negative areas. So what do  you think went wrong with your city, what improvements can be made/ have been made. How is your city now?

-Grand Rapids, Michigan also seem to have been close to the auto-industry with high crime. I remember in my early childhood years I would ask my mom if we could visit Grand Rapids, and she would tell me it's not safe there ( as Lansing). Seems like all have changed there, and would even hear people in local stores ( such as Meijers in Lansing) make reference on how Grand Rapids has improved.

Coolbreeze, I don't think you get it. You asked a few questions and then make general statements based on your mother's impression of GR. LADave and others try to tell you their facts about GR to try and clear up your misconceptions and you view it as criticism and take offense.

Now I'm going to give you my facts about GR and you can take offense to my comments. GR has never been an automotive town. Furniture yes, automotive no. Did we have auto parts plants and tool & dies shops doing automotive, yes. Do a little research and you will see GR has a very diversified employment situation.

This town has never had high crime. I  went to an all white high school in the middle of the all black inner city during the riots of 67 and 68. I never felt threatened or was scared to go to school. (We had the best gymnasium in the city at the time and the neighborhood kids were allowed to play B-ball in it in the summer. The school never even suffered a broken window).

There isn't a neighborhood in GR that I'm afraid to drive in day or night. A couple hoods I might be not be so eager to be on foot at night but for the most part,  the neighborhoods are pretty safe. Yes, it's a big city and you have to be street smart but overall, things are pretty good. You're basing you "facts" about GR on your mother's impressions "from afar". I'm guessing she's never lived here. I've lived here all my life (58 years) except for 4 years when I lived in Houghton MI as a student at MTU.

Come to GR and I'll take you on a tour. I can tell you about what used to be here and there from the 50's as I show you around. You will have a much different impression of GR  after we're done.

[coolbrezze]

Raildudes dad, on Dec 30 2008, 09:58 PM, said:

Coolbreeze, I don't think you get it. You asked a few questions and then make general statements based on your mother's impression of GR. LADave and others try to tell you their facts about GR to try and clear up your misconceptions and you view it as criticism and take offense.

Now I'm going to give you my facts about GR and you can take offense to my comments. GR has never been an automotive town. Furniture yes, automotive no. Did we have auto parts plants and tool & dies shops doing automotive, yes. Do a little research and you will see GR has a very diversified employment situation.

This town has never had high crime. I went to an all white high school in the middle of the all black inner city during the riots of 67 and 68. I never felt threatened or was scared to go to school. (We had the best gymnasium in the city at the time and the neighborhood kids were allowed to play B-ball in it in the summer. The school never even suffered a broken window).

There isn't a neighborhood in GR that I'm afraid to drive in day or night. A couple hoods I might be not be so eager to be on foot at night but for the most part, the neighborhoods are pretty safe. Yes, it's a big city and you have to be street smart but overall, things are pretty good. You're basing you "facts" about GR on your mother's impressions "from afar". I'm guessing she's never lived here. I've lived here all my life (58 years) except for 4 years when I lived in Houghton MI as a student at MTU.

Come to GR and I'll take you on a tour. I can tell you about what used to be here and there from the 50's as I show you around. You will have a much different impression of GR after we're done.

Raildudes dad, many of the statements I've made above apply to you as well. I have no need to explain myself, and it's either you get it or you don't. This was and still is a opinion thread, and if you can read what I wrote right I've said mention Grand Rapids past ( again in my opinion... not in bold letters) and the present ( again in my opinion). Now all you were suppose to do was say your opinion... this is a opinion thread, what don't you get ( and other posters above). Yeah I'm not going to waste my time trying to help you all understand, it's not really that big of a deal ( careless on whether you understand or not).

It's almost as if all of you ( recent posters) lost your glasses when you woke up this morning, and decide to read anyway.

Edited by coolbrezze, 30 December 2008 - 10:14 PM.

[GRDadof3]

coolbrezze, on Dec 30 2008, 11:13 PM, said:

Raildudes dad, many of the statements I've made above apply to you as well. I have no need to explain myself, and it's either you get it or you don't. This was and still is a opinion thread, and if you can read what I wrote right I've said mention Grand Rapids past ( again in my opinion... not in bold letters) and the present ( again in my opinion). Now all you were suppose to do was say your opinion... this is a opinion thread, what don't you get ( and other posters above). Yeah I'm not going to waste my time trying to help you all understand, it's not really that big of a deal ( careless on whether you understand or not).

It's almost as if all of you ( recent posters) lost your glasses when you woke up this morning, and decide to read anyway.

Thread is locked.  coolbrezze, I'm sending you a PM.