50 replies to this topic

[varider]

I have always been wondering if it would ever be possible to combine the 7 cities of hampton roads into one large city with the cities acting together like boroughs of NEW YORK?? Just an idea ive had for some time..

What do you guys think?

[rusthebuss]

It will never happen... One of them would have to act as a Manhatten and all of them would want that status.  We can't agree on transportation so there is no way that they could agree on forming on city

[MissySchmidt]

varider, on Jan 2 2009, 03:42 PM, said:

I have always been wondering if it would ever be possible to combine the 7 cities of hampton roads into one large city with the cities acting together like boroughs of NEW YORK?? Just an idea ive had for some time..

What do you guys think?

Soon after moving here and learning more about the region, I thought about this very thing and made several posts to my blog:
http://mgblankenship...rison-from.html
http://mgblankenship...history-of.html
http://mgblankenship...re-hampton.html

Would love to hear more discussion on this subject.

[varider]

Very Interesting Blogs..
I didn't realize the similarities in land between NYC and Hampton Roads.

[rusthebuss]

We all really need to get together and discuss how WE can change this area. We all have different views on how it should be changed. We really didn't get that many people to show up on the first one. Maybe we can get more.  We need to figure out and reserve a spot to discuss this in person

[Norfolk4Life]

It is entirely possible to create a unified Hampton Roads. I have written a blog to this effect. http://greaterhampto...s.blogspot.com/ I have not made a new post in a while due to my consumption with school, work, and my other blog, http://757hamptonroads.blogspot.com/. Although I have not made a new post, this is by far out of my mind. I think that the most effective way to achieve this goal is to have two groups of people. The first, would attempt to build a grassroots support group, who would write letters to legislatures et cetera. The second group would actually lobby the legislature directly. I am not sure how many know this, but in most states, a goal such as this would require multiple elections in each city and a long, painful process of combining services in a voluntary manner. In Virginia, however, ANY locality can be voted in or out of existence by a simple majority vote in each of the State legislative houses. In fact, in the 1960s, the State almost voted Virginia beach out of existence (they lost by fewer than 5 votes).

[rusthebuss]

Norfolk4Life, on Jan 3 2009, 04:07 AM, said:

It is entirely possible to create a unified Hampton Roads. I have written a blog to this effect. http://greaterhampto...s.blogspot.com/ I have not made a new post in a while due to my consumption with school, work, and my other blog, http://757hamptonroads.blogspot.com/. Although I have not made a new post, this is by far out of my mind. I think that the most effective way to achieve this goal is to have two groups of people. The first, would attempt to build a grassroots support group, who would write letters to legislatures et cetera. The second group would actually lobby the legislature directly. I am not sure how many know this, but in most states, a goal such as this would require multiple elections in each city and a long, painful process of combining services in a voluntary manner. In Virginia, however, ANY locality can be voted in or out of existence by a simple majority vote in each of the State legislative houses. In fact, in the 1960s, the State almost voted Virginia beach out of existence (they lost by fewer than 5 votes).

If this was accomplished, we would get increased federal dollars for the area and it would make it a lot easier to work on the transportation projects. People would lose power so I really don't see it happening. I personally would love to see it happen but don't think that I would see it during my life time

[Norfolk4Life]

precisely.

[mlsimons]

rusthebuss, on Jan 2 2009, 03:55 PM, said:

It will never happen... One of them would have to act as a Manhatten and all of them would want that status.  We can't agree on transportation so there is no way that they could agree on forming on city

I'm cautious of statements which use the term "never"...I do not think we have to do everything the way our examples have done it. I've said before on the seven city regionalism thread that we should consider converting to the term "the Old Dominion" whenever we do consolidate

"Old Dominion" represents our area well, as well as being the state's little known nickname...and most importantly it doesn't give credit to one single municipality/borough much like suggested terms like
"Hampton Roads"
"Norfolk Metropolitan"
"Greater city of Virginia Beach"
or anything else we can think of

by the way, i hate the term Hampton Roads, no other city has the term "roads" in its name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ugh!

[lil-bear]

mlsimons, on Jan 3 2009, 11:56 PM, said:

I'm cautious of statements which use the term "never"...I do not think we have to do everything the way our examples have done it. I've said before on the seven city regionalism thread that we should consider converting to the term "the Old Dominion" whenever we do consolidate

"Old Dominion" represents our area well, as well as being the state's little known nickname...and most importantly it doesn't give credit to one single municipality/borough much like suggested terms like
"Hampton Roads"
"Norfolk Metropolitan"
"Greater city of Virginia Beach"
or anything else we can think of

by the way, i hate the term Hampton Roads, no other city has the term "roads" in its name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ugh!

I have said before (I know there is another topic here on UP about this that I replied to) that the cities of this area (and even counties if they want to) should merge!

I think that the new city should be called Dominion City. That way all the former localities would become buroughs. They would still have their identities, but they would be part of something bigger!

[cpeakesqr]

lil-bear, on Jan 4 2009, 01:08 PM, said:

I have said before (I know there is another topic here on UP about this that I replied to) that the cities of this area (and even counties if they want to) should merge!

I think that the new city should be called Dominion City. That way all the former localities would become buroughs. They would still have their identities, but they would be part of something bigger!

I'm not feeln' Dominion City.  

[varider]

I say we just stick with hampton roads.

[lil-bear]

cpeakesqr, on Jan 4 2009, 01:46 PM, said:

I'm not feeln' Dominion City.  

It's nice to not be "feeln" a suggestion.
It would also be nice to as what name you would be "feeln".....

Virginia City, Virginia?

Before Norfolk was Norfolk, it was called "Elizabeth Cittie"


So there's some more suggestions!

Edited by lil-bear, 04 January 2009 - 03:42 PM.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

I don't think that the "7 cities" will ever merge in entirety -- I think a merger of Portsmouth and Norfolk could work, MAYBE even the entire Southside, or the entire Peninsula, but not all of them altogether.

I mention the Southside and Peninsula separately because I think they are growing almost irreversibly apart... Note the patterns of development in the two regions: downtown Norfolk is continuing to urbanize and be built-up in its core, but the population center of the Southside has been shifting away from the Peninsula (into Chesapeake, Virginia Beach, somewhat into Suffolk now); even in urbanizing, Virginia Beach has been getting built up more and more, and is situated further away from the Peninsula.  I think this reflects the very independent nature of the cities (another impediment to consolidation).

Likewise, the Peninsula's center of population has shifted dramatically away from the Hampton Roads waterway, as has urban development. In the 70s and 80s, as the population shift into northern Newport News, York County, etc., began, the cities tried to revitalize their downtowns and such, but businesses continued to flee (Newport News city offices have, to some extent, followed in recent years).  The business, entertainment, and shopping centers of the Peninsula are now at Coliseum (re-emerging), and especially along Hampton Roads Center Parkway and its office parks, Oyster Point in Newport News, and along Jefferson Avenue between Denbigh and J. Clyde Morris.  In the last decade, Williamsburg has even started to build up its own regional office parks, business/shopping centers, with rapid expansion of the Outlet Mall, High Street, and now, New Town, along with huge population growth in James City County and northern Newport News / York Co.

I would LOVE to see the Southside and Peninsula merge into their own respective cities, kind of a "twin cities" setup -- huge cities in area (not shabby by population). The increased clout of each would be hugely beneficial as well... but I don't know how likely that will be.  As Russ and others have said on these threads before "If we're going to be a 'new-New York' with borroughs, who's Manhattan?" Everyone will want to be... ((although I think that could be circumvented more easily on the Peninsula: the cities are already so contiguous in development patterns, just build up the areas between Jefferson and HR Center Parkway and Coliseum; make it an expansive CBD, give it a skyline, however...))

[cpeakesqr]

lil-bear, on Jan 4 2009, 04:39 PM, said:

It's nice to not be "feeln" a suggestion.
It would also be nice to as what name you would be "feeln".....

Virginia City, Virginia?

Before Norfolk was Norfolk, it was called "Elizabeth Cittie"


So there's some more suggestions!

Not feeln' those either.   I'm coming to believe that any name anyone comes up with will sound too contrived.  Might as well call this "dream" city Norchesaportshampfolkbeachnews.  IMHO, the City of Hampton Roads is probably the best bet.  It's widely used by the media, and public acceptance has grown.  It reminds me of many Mid Western city names like Grand Rapids or Cedar Springs or Sioux Falls.  

Here are some more suggestions:

Too Dependent on the Navy City
We Can't Agree on Anything City
Pay for Roads?!?!? City
Limited Light Rail City
Hope You Like Tunnels and Jets City
False Prophet City... that funny Pat R.
Slowly Succumbing to Rising Ocean Levels City
We Used to Have Crabs and Other Shellfish City
Norfolk Is the Best City City
No... Virginia Beach is the Best City City

this could get fun, maybe it should have its own thread.

[scm]

cpeakesqr, on Jan 4 2009, 08:24 PM, said:

Here are some more suggestions:

Too Dependent on the Navy City
We Can't Agree on Anything City
Pay for Roads?!?!? City
Limited Light Rail City
Hope You Like Tunnels and Jets City
False Prophet City... that funny Pat R.
Slowly Succumbing to Rising Ocean Levels City
We Used to Have Crabs and Other Shellfish City
Norfolk Is the Best City City
No... Virginia Beach is the Best City City

this could get fun, maybe it should have its own thread.

Those are all pretty good.  All contain that essential element of humor -- close enough to the truth to be funny.  I'd add one -- I'm Not Giving Up Political Power City.  Do you honestly see the mayor of Norfolk, or the mayor of VB, agreeing to abolish his position?  Hell, Fraim already thinks he is the mayor of the entire region (see his grandstanding on a bridge between Chesapeake and Portsmouth), so he won't go down without a fight.  Except that VB has more voters....

Then, you can get to the second tier -- sheriffs, judges, tax assessors, etc.  All have fiefdoms to rule, campaigns to be the focus of.

How about just agreeing on shared services?  Why shouldn't the Circuit Courts on the southside merge, with a single location?  It wouldn't be anymore of a hardship than all of Fairfax County in a single circuit.  Lower overhead, lower cost of doing business.  Maybe even look at merging the District and Domestic Relations Courts between Norfolk and Portsmouth -- possibly dragging VB in as well, with an arrangement to do a day or so a week in VB for the lower courts?

Another way to accomplish this, would be for all of the Southside cities to retain their independent city status, but agree to all join in a new county government, again, much like Fairfax county.  The county would be a taxing authority, and run the courts and the schools, but the cities would run everything else.  Just like Falls Church and Fairfax are independent cities, here, all "whatever you think will sell name" county would run the schools, the courts, the jails -- under the same kind of contractual agreement the city of Fairfax has with Fairfax county schools.  Cities still zone, enforce traffic laws, etc.  Also still have mayors.   It would be interesting to see what other services could move to the county level.  Libraries?  Parks and Rec?  Trash collection?  Many make sense, doesn't mean they will all be done.

Until you get some type of political entity that forces the cities to recognize their interdependence, the progress of the area will be slow.  Businesses in Norfolk need to recognize their employees can very likely come from the Portsmouth schools.  Those in VB might have to employ Norfolk school grads.  Those are the pragmatic reasons -- how about the reality that they are all our children?

I don't think you can get the fiefdoms to abolish themselves, but you can place a layer over the top, that functions in almost every other place in America.

[rusthebuss]

How about Bay city! LOL

[lil-bear]

Oh boy there's a smart-a in the house!

Sarcasm rears it's ugly head!

The examples I gave were legitimate suggestions,
not juvenile attemps to stir the pot.

Oh well, I'm just not feeln those.
Try again!!

[Norfolk4Life]

scm, on Jan 5 2009, 09:12 AM, said:

Those are all pretty good.  All contain that essential element of humor -- close enough to the truth to be funny.  I'd add one -- I'm Not Giving Up Political Power City.  Do you honestly see the mayor of Norfolk, or the mayor of VB, agreeing to abolish his position?  Hell, Fraim already thinks he is the mayor of the entire region (see his grandstanding on a bridge between Chesapeake and Portsmouth), so he won't go down without a fight.  Except that VB has more voters....

Then, you can get to the second tier -- sheriffs, judges, tax assessors, etc.  All have fiefdoms to rule, campaigns to be the focus of.

How about just agreeing on shared services?  Why shouldn't the Circuit Courts on the southside merge, with a single location?  It wouldn't be anymore of a hardship than all of Fairfax County in a single circuit.  Lower overhead, lower cost of doing business.  Maybe even look at merging the District and Domestic Relations Courts between Norfolk and Portsmouth -- possibly dragging VB in as well, with an arrangement to do a day or so a week in VB for the lower courts?

Another way to accomplish this, would be for all of the Southside cities to retain their independent city status, but agree to all join in a new county government, again, much like Fairfax county.  The county would be a taxing authority, and run the courts and the schools, but the cities would run everything else.  Just like Falls Church and Fairfax are independent cities, here, all "whatever you think will sell name" county would run the schools, the courts, the jails -- under the same kind of contractual agreement the city of Fairfax has with Fairfax county schools.  Cities still zone, enforce traffic laws, etc.  Also still have mayors.   It would be interesting to see what other services could move to the county level.  Libraries?  Parks and Rec?  Trash collection?  Many make sense, doesn't mean they will all be done.

Until you get some type of political entity that forces the cities to recognize their interdependence, the progress of the area will be slow.  Businesses in Norfolk need to recognize their employees can very likely come from the Portsmouth schools.  Those in VB might have to employ Norfolk school grads.  Those are the pragmatic reasons -- how about the reality that they are all our children?

I don't think you can get the fiefdoms to abolish themselves, but you can place a layer over the top, that functions in almost every other place in America.

A county government would not work, as it is technically unconstitutional in VA for a city to share government with a county. I think that our best bet would be to allow each current city council to remain intact. The mayor from each city would then attend a (more-or-less) regional city council, which would have the ultimate authority in the regional city. Each former city would still meet maybe once a month to determine what their priorities were and the mayor would bring those to the new regional city council meetings. Then, maybe every 5 years or so, phase out one city council member from each former city. It would not force anyone out of office, just redraw the districts with one less. This would continue until the size of the city council was manageable.

[cpeakesqr]

lil-bear, on Jan 5 2009, 09:37 AM, said:

Oh boy there's a smart-a in the house!

Sarcasm rears it's ugly head!

The examples I gave were legitimate suggestions,
not juvenile attemps to stir the pot.

Oh well, I'm just not feeln those.
Try again!!

I don't know why you're so defensive.  Dominion City just screams comic strip to me, and I just don't think it works.  It's only my opinion.  

The Adventures of Crabman: Chaos in Dominion City...