58 replies to this topic

[DigitalSky]

According to High Point University, CBL & Associates (Current owners of the mall) have approached university leaders to ask them to purchase the mall.  Now, the mall which is not dying per se, still has 4 of its anchor stores (Belk, Sears, JC Penney, Dillard's), and still is fairly leased on the inside (it's no Eastland).

CBL says High Point's Oak Hollow Mall is 1,260,031 square feet -- which I believe square footage wise actually makes it larger than Four Seasons Mall, which according to Four Seasons' owner GGP is 1,140,000 square feet

The rumor circulating from High Point University is that the school would demolish the mall in order to make way for a new sports stadium.  On the other hand, HPU officially has not expressed any interest in purchasing the mall, so it will be interesting to see where this leads...

Sources:
HPU Article
CBL Square Feet
GGP Square Feet

[triadguy37]

DigitalSky, on Feb 2 2009, 04:11 PM, said:

According to High Point University, CBL & Associates (Current owners of the mall) have approached university leaders to ask them to purchase the mall.  Now, the mall which is not dying per se, still has 4 of its anchor stores (Belk, Sears, JC Penney, Dillard's), and still is fairly leased on the inside (it's no Eastland).

CBL says High Point's Oak Hollow Mall is 1,260,031 square feet -- which I believe square footage wise actually makes it larger than Four Seasons Mall, which according to Four Seasons' owner GGP is 1,140,000 square feet

The rumor circulating from High Point University is that the school would demolish the mall in order to make way for a new sports stadium.  On the other hand, HPU officially has not expressed any interest in purchasing the mall, so it will be interesting to see where this leads...

Sources:
HPU Article
CBL Square Feet
GGP Square Feet

Dillards is in the process of closing if it has not already.  Four Season Mall is 3 stories and bigger than Oak Hollow.

[StevenRocks]

With CBL controlling Friendly Center, Alamance Crossing and Hanes Mall, it would sound plausible that they're in the mood to dispose of a marginal property like Oak Hollow Mall.  What's unclear is what will happen to the anchors, the outparcels, the hotel, et cetera.  That is a lot of square footage to go dark without a clear relocation plan for the successful merchants of the mall.

[ricky_davis_fan_21]

So an undermalled city becomes even more undermalled. This is a tradegy, however it can also be seen as a positive. Greensboro, with Friendly Center has started to make great strides toward more pedestrian friendly, "town center" type developments. Now they just need to get some more quality retail, and I think they can weather the economic storm. I hate that Oak Hollow is going to have a similar fate to Eastland in Charlotte, but its nice that their are already suitors for the property.

[beyonce245]

nibletodell, on Feb 2 2009, 08:33 PM, said:

Greensboro, with Friendly Center has started to make great strides toward more pedestrian friendly, "town center" type developments.

By making great strides I presume you're referring to the Shops at Friendly Center.  The original section of Friendly Center was built in 1957.  So arguably, it was one of the very first open air shopping malls in the United States.  

It is sad to hear about Oak Hollow Mall, although I must admit that I haven't been there in years.  I haven't felt the need, and apparently, I wasn't the only one.  The N&R did a piece on this very topic in May.  The article noted the sagging leasing numbers and that the mall only brought in $182 of revenue per square foot of leasable space in 2007.  For comparison purposes, In the same year, Hanes Mall had $342 of revenue per square foot and Friendly Center had $418 of revenue per square foot.  I couldn't find numbers for Four Seasons.

[DigitalSky]

triadguy37, on Feb 2 2009, 04:51 PM, said:

Dillards is in the process of closing if it has not already.  Four Season Mall is 3 stories and bigger than Oak Hollow.

Interesting about the Dillard's store being in the process of closing, so has it converted to outlet status?  Also, when you say Four Seasons is bigger than Oak Hollow, you're talking about the Dillard's store specifically, right? If you're talking about the malls, thats why I put the square footages up there, because even if Four Seasons is three stories, Oak Hollow is still the largest mall in Guilford County.

nibletodell, on Feb 2 2009, 08:33 PM, said:

So an undermalled city becomes even more undermalled. This is a tradegy, however it can also be seen as a positive. Greensboro, with Friendly Center has started to make great strides toward more pedestrian friendly, "town center" type developments. Now they just need to get some more quality retail, and I think they can weather the economic storm. I hate that Oak Hollow is going to have a similar fate to Eastland in Charlotte, but its nice that their are already suitors for the property.

I do agree that for what it is worth, comparatively speaking, that we are "undermalled" but kinda at the same time and by looking at the numbers, it's all that we can handle.  I do think it would be weird to have a city of 100,000 (High Point) not have an enclosed mall at all, I mean there still would probably be somewhere that *some* of the retailers went, right?  On the other hand, I look at what Belk did in the Durham/Chapel Hill area - they shuttered 3 of their stores (University Mall, South Square and Northgate) and consolidated it all into one store at Southpoint Mall.  But with Belk slowly "killing off" its store at Four Seasons, what happens will be interesting.

[cityboi]

its interesting because Friendly Center has over 1.2 million square feet pretty much the same size as Oak Hollow. Friendly Center was one of the first opened air malls built in the country and long before any enclosed mall in the state. It was built in 1957. For those of you who were around in the 1980s, you'll remember that Friendly Center had an enclosed mini-mall called Forum 6. It was a mall within a mall. During that time Greensboro had three enclosed malls, four if you count the Cotton Mill Sqaure because it had all the stores youd find in typical indoor malls like Linens and Things. If Oak Hollow closes, I can see an outdoor lifestyle center (todays new malls) being built.

not to get off topic but the pictures below are of the Signature place office building at Friendly Center (former Forum 6 mini-mall) it was a 3 level mini mall with almost 300,000 sq ft of retail. Forum 6 was constructed in 1976 around the time the other two malls in Greensboro were built. The building has been recladded with glass and K&W Cafeteria is still on the ground floor. If it were still a mall today, Friendly Center would boast over 1.5 million square feet of retail.

Edited by cityboi, 02 February 2009 - 10:21 PM.

[DigitalSky]

There's an article in the News Record today about this... so HPU has been asked numerous times to purchase the mall, but they say that the football stadium rumors are just that and more than anything they'd like to see this place succeed as a mall... Also in the Triad Biz Journal

Edited by DigitalSky, 09 February 2009 - 12:07 PM.

[sean]

undermauled?  seriously?  i'm witnessing the complete opposite:  retail implosion,  way too much supply relative to demand, a consumer with a negative savings rate & desperate discounting.  what examples of untapped retail demand are you folks witnessing?  having just talked with a bunch of old friends in retail... i'm curious where you're able to see an under supply of malls?!

[suburban george3]

nibletodell, on Feb 2 2009, 08:33 PM, said:

So an undermalled city becomes even more undermalled.

I don't view High Point as being undermalled, I just view it as more of a 'bedroom community' for the Triad.  I think if we looked at demographics, Mall traffic from High Point is probably funneling to Four Seasons/Friendly in Greensboro, Hanes in Winston-Salem, or even Concord Mills to a degree.  

Oak Hollow wasn't in a desirable location and was dependant on a customer base which can easily access the shopping districts in Greensboro.  

I think High Point's retail success would be smaller more neighborhood based shopping instead of trying to have a regional mall.  Greensboro and Winston-Salem are the regional leaders in the Triad.

[blburton]

So true.

suburban george3, on Feb 9 2009, 03:06 PM, said:

I don't view High Point as being undermalled, I just view it as more of a 'bedroom community' for the Triad.  I think if we looked at demographics, Mall traffic from High Point is probably funneling to Four Seasons/Friendly in Greensboro, Hanes in Winston-Salem, or even Concord Mills to a degree.  

Oak Hollow wasn't in a desirable location and was dependant on a customer base which can easily access the shopping districts in Greensboro.  

I think High Point's retail success would be smaller more neighborhood based shopping instead of trying to have a regional mall.  Greensboro and Winston-Salem are the regional leaders in the Triad.

[StevenRocks]

Dillard's is not closing at Oak Hollow Mall.  In a related topic, the High Point store at 165,000 square feet, is substantially smaller than the Greensboro store, which measures 220,000 square feet and is the second largest Dillard's in the Carolinas (only Dillard's SouthPark is larger)

High Point is very much under-retailed.  A typical city of its size would have about twice as much retail space as High Point does.  But the problem comes in its proximity to Greensboro and Winston-Salem.  There is a lot of cannibalization of sales by having Four Seasons, Friendly and Hanes Mall so close to the affluent sections of High Point.

Oak Hollow Mall has never caught on and probably should never have been built.  But now that it's here, there are ways to make it work better than the current format.  I would embrace some updated retail design before I'd support a full demolition.

[DigitalSky]

Steven do you have information on High Point's mall that preceded Oak Hollow, the one that was supposedly located off of Westchester? thanks

[Creasy336]

Best Buy should seriously consider moving to Oak Hollow Mall.  It would be a boost to business there.  As far as location in High Point I can't think of a better area besides maybe North 68 or where the Palladium is.

[DigitalSky]

Creasy336, on Feb 10 2009, 11:04 PM, said:

Best Buy should seriously consider moving to Oak Hollow Mall.  It would be a boost to business there.  As far as location in High Point I can't think of a better area besides maybe North 68 or where the Palladium is.

I agree, with Circuit City shutting down, Best Buy should put a 2nd location in Guilford County.  (My bet is BB will eye Highwoods Boulevard before High Point though)

[cityboi]

suburban george3, on Feb 9 2009, 03:06 PM, said:

I don't view High Point as being undermalled, I just view it as more of a 'bedroom community' for the Triad.  I think if we looked at demographics, Mall traffic from High Point is probably funneling to Four Seasons/Friendly in Greensboro, Hanes in Winston-Salem, or even Concord Mills to a degree.  

Oak Hollow wasn't in a desirable location and was dependant on a customer base which can easily access the shopping districts in Greensboro.  

I think High Point's retail success would be smaller more neighborhood based shopping instead of trying to have a regional mall.  Greensboro and Winston-Salem are the regional leaders in the Triad.

I agree. I think the reason why Four Seasons and Hanes are more successful is because they are regional malls. shoppers from around the Triad shop at these malls, not just people from Greensboro or Winston. Oak Hollow just seems to serve the residents of High Point. And yes the location of Oak Hollow is pretty bad. Its a distance away from an interstate higway which means lower visibilty.

Edited by cityboi, 11 February 2009 - 06:52 AM.

[DigitalSky]

cityboi, on Feb 11 2009, 07:45 AM, said:

I agree. I think the reason why Four Seasons and Hanes are more successful is because they are regional malls. shoppers from around the Triad shop at these malls, not just people from Greensboro or Winston. Oak Hollow just seems to serve the residents of High Point. And yes the location of Oak Hollow is pretty bad. Its a distance away from an interstate higway which means lower visibilty.

Oak Hollow Mall is on one of High Point's main corridors and has proximity to Highway 311 as well, so while it's not near an interstate it still has decent visibility.  I know not the greatest comparison, but SouthPark Mall's closest interstate connection is 4 miles away.  I guess you could argue that Eastland's lack of visibility/proximity to an interstate surely didn't help that mall either.  I'd be hard-pressed now to think of malls in major Carolina cities that aren't near an interstate.

[Creasy336]

Concerning regional visibility Friendly Center isn't exactly close to any interstate, however Friendly Center has its niche and serves the people in its target demographic well keeping it viable.  After giving this Oak Hollow situation some thought I have come to the conclusion all Oak Hollow mall needs besides that Best Buy I mentioned is some sort of regional draw (heck even a Sears Grand would do).  Oak Hollow mall needs a game changer similar to when Southpoint added Nordstroms prior to construction changing an ordinary mall to the bohemoth we see today.  Oak Hollow mall should continue to be an integral part of Triad shopping.  US 311 (I-74) will become more heavily traveled as that route becomes quicker to the beach, also the area where Greensboro and High Point (Jamestown too) will continue to densify in population.

Edited by Creasy336, 11 February 2009 - 12:52 PM.

[DigitalSky]

Creasy336, on Feb 11 2009, 01:46 PM, said:

Concerning regional visibility Friendly Center isn't exactly close to any interstate, however Friendly Center has its niche and serves the people in its target demographic well keeping it viable.  After giving this Oak Hollow situation some thought I have come to the conclusion all Oak Hollow mall needs besides that Best Buy I mentioned is some sort of regional draw (heck even a Sears Grand would do).  Oak Hollow mall needs a game changer similar to when Southpoint added Nordstroms prior to construction changing an ordinary mall to the bohemoth we see today.  Oak Hollow mall should continue to be an integral part of Triad shopping.  US 311 (I-74) will become more heavily traveled as that route becomes quicker to the beach, also the area where Greensboro and High Point (Jamestown too) will continue to densify in population.

Yeah the key is incorporating draws, for goodness sake there is a Barnes and Noble as an outparcel at the mall.. I think they should integrate the Barnes and Noble, bring in a Best Buy... there' even a Target store there.. they can spice it up somehow I'm sure.

[morehead]

Oak Hollow was built to replace the old Westchester Mall, which featured a Thalhimer's (the first store), and later Belk-Beck and Penney's. That mall was opened around 1969 as one of the first in the state. It straggled on through years of stalled expansions at a time of high growth nationally in enclosed malls. But by 1995 when CBL opened it, the formula of enclosed malls was beginning to slacken, and the stores in Greensboro were already well-established. The large department stores at Oak Hollow quickly lost the selection that shoppers found in Greensboro, so they just skipped it and headed to the larger stores. Also, High Point's demographics are a bit unusual. It has a very small population of extraordinarily wealthy familes in the west, a large population of middle-income families in the north, and a large population of low-income families to the south into Archdale and Thomasville. The wealthy familes can't make the mall viable on their own...and the middle-income families on the north side can travel to Greensboro and to a lesser degree Hanes Mall (Concord Mills is still over an hour away...too far for standard mall shopping).

If Oak Hollow retooled itself with an Old Navy and Kohl's instead of Dillards and JC Penney's, it would probably be better off. Talbots expanded in High Point. The Palladium/Wendover/Eastchester area is too close to Greensboro to replicate Greensboro's chain stores...such as Best Buy.