1603 replies to this topic

[atlrvr]

I don't think it is NIMBYism.  The land seller (the owners of Met Midtown) is making sure Levine isn't building a product that competes with them.

[kermit]

atlrvr, on 20 January 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

I don't think it is NIMBYism.  The land seller (the owners of Met Midtown) is making sure Levine isn't building a product that competes with them.

yeah, that was a poor word choice. I guess my concern revolves around the fact that it feels like much of Charlotte's redevelopment revolves around large blocks of land (like the Metropolitian project). I certainly understand why Pappas (?) placed the restrictions on the sale, but it will have unfortunate impacts on urban change. Pappas wanted to create a mixed-use complex, but they do not want to see the same thing next door.

I can see this process repeated in many locaitons around town.

[dubone]

Is this just a landbanking proposition?  Seems like Levine isn't much for making progress on construction, given his history in First Ward.  I had assumed the land across King's, but when I had forgotten about the spot where Pappas had planned that condo tower.  140 units seems possible in a midrise apartment tower like is going next to Catalyst.  Either way this will help continue the progress of Midtown and support the retail there, assuming something gets built.

[atlrvr]

I believe that Levine has a partner that is a specialist in apartments, so this actually has a chance of happening.

The question is, how long will lenders keep giving out loans for in town multi-family properties.  If they all get built, I would think there would be over-supply.  That said, this is a pretty good location, where apartments would do very well.

I would think Grubb is currently looking at building apartments on Elizabeth Ave as well.

[dbull75]

^That's a really good point about the lenders. I don't think Charlotte will be over-saturated if all the current proposals come online given the anemic vacancy rate now. But we all remember back in ~2006 when it was a few condo projects than all of the sudden everyone and their brother had plans for a high-rise, a few started, market collapsed, etc. If it goes at a steady pace and a mass frenzy doesn't begin, I believe lenders will make $ available to get these projects going. This building at the Met is a solid one in my opinion. I fits the mold of the area in terms of scale, though we haven't seen a rendering. I know we all want to see something get done at 210 trade, even if it's not as grand as the original.

Edited by dbull75, 23 January 2012 - 09:10 AM.

[dubone]

http://www.businessi...nd-kohls-2012-2

Interesting that Kohls and Target do well together, so maybe that adds to the idea that Kohls would be considering the Home Depot Design space under Target.   It's seriously a shame nothing has taken it in all this time.  If no big box stores want it, it'd be nice if they subdivided it to multiple smaller stores in the space.

[Prodev]

Kohl's larger prototype is about 88,000 sf so they would need to split the space if they were to occupy the former Expo space. I've heard talk of Sams club, who could take the space as-is, but that was about 8 months ago, so not sure if they;re still considering the space.

I get the Kohls Target relationship b/c they create some synergy and offer different products, but what I don't get is Hibbett Sports piggybacking off Walmart. They sell the same items as Walmart at a higher price, but they say their sales are highest at locations near Walmart.

[mallguy]

I'd have thought that Belk would have moved in; a visible location in its hometown, filling a huge hole in the market (no department store, other than Target, for miles).

[nonillogical]

Sorry if its mentioned farther back in this thread, but there are some new places going into Metropolitan. There's a frozen yogurt place, I think called CherryBerry or something along those lines, a pizza place, and a women's clothing store called Lipp Boutique.

[norm21499]

mallguy, on 25 February 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

I'd have thought that Belk would have moved in; a visible location in its hometown, filling a huge hole in the market (no department store, other than Target, for miles).

Metropolitan is too close to Southpark. I do not foresee Uptown getting any major retail anchors that have stores at Southpark or Northlake malls. those two malls have sucked any chance of uptown getting those types of retailers.

[Prodev]

Agreed. Belk hasn't opened a new store since '07 and doesn't have any immediate plans to. There was just an article in the observer saying they're planning to spend $75 million to renovate existing stores this year and up to $130 million in '13-14.

[mallguy]

norm21499, on 25 February 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

Metropolitan is too close to Southpark. I do not foresee Uptown getting any major retail anchors that have stores at Southpark or Northlake malls. those two malls have sucked any chance of uptown getting those types of retailers.

That makes sense, but there is a Target at Northlake and Midtown.

[norm21499]

mallguy, on 27 February 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

That makes sense, but there is a Target at Northlake and Midtown.

Target also has two stores in Ballantyne only a mile form each other. Department stores cant build out like Target or Walmart can. I trhink Uptown can support retailers....I just think the city needs to provide incentives for retailers to go uptown. Whether it be tax breaks, or incentives for retrofitting existing space to attract retailers.

[dubone]

I don't think we need to try for a department store uptown this decade.  Let the economics work, and obviously it will not right now.  I think we ought to focus on continued residential and office growth, and now that we have the seeds of larger retail in Midtown, this should be able to grow enough and prove the market.  All the apple stores, department stores, and clothing retailers will come once there is an urban market of buyers that they are missing at the current malls.  I bet that won't happen for while.

[The Escapists]

We're off topic (kind of) but I can't be the only one in this city that doesn't like South Park or Phillips Place. I mean, I know Charlotte is an affluent/suburban-minded city, but South Park is a neighborhood named after a mall. Yuck. I'll skip my purchases rather than go to South Park. However if I could go into Uptown (or even Met), I'm fine.

[Windsurfer]

Yep, I'm with ya Escapists. And, the same people who brought you SP are now bringing you Ballantyne.

[kermit]

I am also a member of the mall avoider group (not an easy task given my teenage daughter).  That said, I don't think the preferences of us UPers should be considered part of a representative sample of (sub) urban consumers. The relevant question here is counting the number of mainstream Charlotte residents who would be open to buying their mid to high price range goods somewhere other than the mall or online. I think the crowds at midtown tell us the number is higher than most assumed five years ago.

[norm21499]

The biggest thing  I believe that is blocking uptown retail is.....parking! In a suburban city, you need parking for retail to work. Especially in an urban setting in a suburban city. This is one reason why Metropolitan is so successful. Only truly cities can support people going to retail locations without cars.

[nonillogical]

norm21499, on 28 February 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

The biggest thing  I believe that is blocking uptown retail is.....parking! In a suburban city, you need parking for retail to work. Especially in an urban setting in a suburban city. This is one reason why Metropolitan is so successful. Only truly cities can support people going to retail locations without cars.

Uptown has TONS of parking...most of its just not free

[norm21499]

nonillogical, on 28 February 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

Uptown has TONS of parking...most of its just not free

yea....thats the point. parking is a hassle cause you have to pay for it.