7 replies to this topic

[wolverine]

http://detnews.com/a...s flee Michigan

Add me to the pool.  Despite that my lease in Ann Arbor ends in September, I hope to be gone in 4 weeks after I complete my Masters.  The MSU numbers don't surprise me.  There are so many MSU bars in Chicago.  I've been to the one in Lincoln Park which is a prominent building decked out in green and white.  

As far as U of M, it's really difficult for me to tell from personal experience how many people stick around.  I'd say just about all my friends have moved elsewhere.  The ones that remained are in temporary jobs or are preparing to leave soon.  Then again, most of everyone in my program was out of state, so I never expected them to stick around.

It's going to take a lot to keep people...building better cities, attracting better companies.  I think if I ever come back, I'd settle somewhere around Grand Rapids where I definitely see a bright future.

[GRDadof3]

Yeah, when I graduated from Western about 15 years ago, most of the people I knew were looking at moving somewhere else.  It's hard for cities in Michigan to compete against cooler and faster growing ones like Chicago, Atlanta, Portland and Denver, etc..

There's also this interesting interactive feature that shows where Michigan residents are leaving, by county, and to where they were going:

http://www.detnews.c...CIAL01/90401002

[mgman]

GRDadof3, on Apr 4 2009, 12:01 PM, said:

Yeah, when I graduated from Western about 15 years ago, most of the people I knew were looking at moving somewhere else.  It's hard for cities in Michigan to compete against cooler and faster growing ones like Chicago, Atlanta, Portland and Denver, etc..

There's also this interesting interactive feature that shows where Michigan residents are leaving, by county, and to where they were going:

http://www.detnews.c...CIAL01/90401002

I will throw in an anecdote or two to try and illustrate a reason why I think Michigan is going to continue to lose young people for the foreseeable future. Being "cool" is one factor but I think upward job momentum is just as important.

One of my friends graduated with a B.A. in government something or other and moved back home after college. For the past four years he has been at the same entry level job and is still the lowest in seniority at the county land office. People do not move out of the upper levels and the county is not expanding creating more jobs, so he is stranded in a low level easy to do job.

Likewise, in the county parks department, the head of the parks department retired and then got hired back as a consultant so they would not have to pay him as much. He had been in the job for decades and the man that was second in charge was in that position for 12 years or something too. The head of the department was eventually let go completely and everyone was moved up but how can you pitch an area to a recent college grad by saying to them you can stay in this entry level position for ten+ years and then maybe you will get promoted. Then you can stay at that job for ten+ years before you may be promoted again, that is if we do not hire back some retirees.

Michigan is an old state and the people who have high ranking jobs now are not going to give them up. If the economy is not expanding, where can a college graduate go where career advancement is rosy. Areas that attract newer grads have dynamic economies that give new comers opportunities to advance in established business and/or create new opportunities by starting new business or getting involved in growing enterprises. The end results reinforce the upward or downward momentum of an area.

[Carolindiana]

I neither live in nor am I from Michigan, rather I'm an Indiana resident relocated from a childhood in SC and college years in NC, but I find this topic very interesting.

Here in Indiana, an oft-discussed news topic is the "Brain Drain." Most recently, an Indianapolis news report questioned whether the admissions offices at Purdue & IU hold in-state students to HIGHER standards than out-of-state. Traditionally, it's supposed to be the other way around, or at least equal standards. The report suggested that the schools are favoring non-residents because they pay nearly triple in tuition, while in-state residents are accompanied by less state support than in years past. In other words, the schools make more money off non-residents.

How accurate that report's suggestions were are certainly debatable, but the increasing number of non-resident admissions does explain some of the brain drain. I'm sure Michigan schools, especially UM and MSU, can relate.

To some extent, I feel the state should hold state-supported schools accountable for the number of grads who remain in the state for, say, five years. Incentives for the graduates, such as tax abatements or refunding tuition, may be necessary. Now, when companies get word that new graduates have extra motivation to stay in the state, they may be more willing to locate there.

mgman, it sounds like Michigan has a lot of what southerners call the good-ol-boy network. It's REALLY hard to advance in that environment. Clearly, Michigan needs some new companies to come in if the state hopes to keep its talent. Otherwise, even incentives wouldn't work.

[mfellows]

It isn't unusual for graduates to seek jobs outside the state, and by all means -- before you start a family -- that's when you want to see what it's like elsewhere, in my book. A lot of people do end up moving back after starting families, however, to be close to their extended families or just to get out of an even greater rat-race somewhere else.

There's more attention being given, also, to basic questions of quality of life as an inducement to live or start a business in Michigan, and that gives a lot of us more hope. Lots of digital enterprises dotting the landscape all over the peninsulas, if you look -- people who can work anywhere they please, yet locate in the Keweenaw, or Traverse or on a lake in Jackson County.

There's an interesting event this week in Lansing that focuses on the role of place in community and economic development. The MSU Land Policy Institute's annual summitis Tuesday and Wednesday at the Lansing Center, and will focus on the things that will let communities prosper in the "new economy," which seems to boil down to "placemaking" and quality of life. The LPI's new report, which is posted at their site, basically argues that, since money increasingly follows the so-called knowledge workers -- who tend to be more interested in quality of life than chasing a buck -- the trick is to attract them with cultural and natural attractions and decent communities, and the rest will sort of follow. Here's the event press release, with lots of links.

Another interesting thing is that the LPI is encouraging dialog online about its report and threads coming out of the meeting. Links for Facebook, Twitter, etc. are included on the press release.

[ericnmu]

Every friend I graduated with in 2007 has left the state. Most to Wisconsin and Chicago. 3 of my best friends, after applying all over the region, took tech jobs in Madison with me.

Edited by ericnmu, 25 April 2009 - 09:39 AM.

[torgo]

Believe it or not, the rate at which college grads leave the Michigan - about half - is about average. The rate at which we attract college grads from all those other states is the real problem, as the state is way behind in attracting out-of-state talent.

[LA Dave]

torgo, on 30 April 2009 - 08:42 PM, said:

Believe it or not, the rate at which college grads leave the Michigan - about half - is about average. The rate at which we attract college grads from all those other states is the real problem, as the state is way behind in attracting out-of-state talent.

Very good point.  One argument for large out-of-state student bodies is that there is a chance that some students  might stay around.  Ann Arbor is full of people from the East Coast and other parts of the Midwest who decided to stick around after attending U-M. At the same time, in-staters like me took advantage of a great education and left.  Mea culpa.  

I hope that with the growth in quality of GVSU (believe me, it is getting a national reputation), more out-of-state students will be attracted there and decide to stick around in GR and environs.