30 replies to this topic

[krazeeboi]

Bizjournals recently analyzed recent county-by-county growth patterns within each state, and then used that information to predict metropolitan growth at five-year intervals between 2005 and 2025 (the full methodology can be found here). According to these projections, here's how the populations of the state's metros will look in 2025.

Myrtle Beach
2005 pop: 228,254
2025 pop: 399,626
Growth rate: 75.08%
Raw change: 171,372

Charleston
2005 pop: 601,162
2025 pop: 810,615
Growth rate: 34.84%
Raw change: 209,453

Greenville
2005 pop: 588,714
2025 pop: 710,478
Growth rate: 20.68%
Raw change: 121,764

Columbia
2005 pop: 690,717
2025 pop: 807,303
Growth rate: 16.88%
Raw change: 116,586

Anderson
2005 pop: 174,232
2025 pop: 202,615
Growth rate: 16.29%
Raw change: 28,383

Spartanburg
2005 pop: 265,282
2025 pop: 307,919
Growth rate: 16.07%
Raw change: 42,637

Florence
2005 pop: 196,670
2025 pop: 190,554
Growth rate: -3.11%
Raw change: -6,116


If Greenville, Spartanburg, and Anderson were to be recombined into one MSA by 2025, then the total projected population would be 1,221,012.

Personally, I don't put much stock into projections since there are several factors that can influence growth--not to mention the addition/subtraction of counties from an MSA--but I thought the figures would make for good discussion.

[waccamatt]

The projections are already off because Columbia's 2008 estimate was around 730,000. If that rate continues we would be close to 900,000 by 2025.

[krazeeboi]

The list projects Columbia at 740,815 for 2010, but being that the MSA seems to gain roughly 12K people every year (at least for the past few years), that figure seems more appropriate for 2009. Most projections do tend to seriously fall short, but as I said, I thought it was interesting for discussion.

[CorgiMatt]

And about the time I decide I'm moving to Charleston because it's the biggest, a major hurricane will come along and blow 'em all up to Columbia.

Edited by CorgiMatt, 06 June 2009 - 07:16 AM.

[CorgiMatt]

Why didn't they just look at the Census Bureau's projections?  The ones I've seen have Columbia having the most in 2030.

[GvilleSC]

CorgiMatt, on Jun 6 2009, 10:01 AM, said:

Why didn't they just look at the Census Bureau's projections?  The ones I've seen have Columbia having the most in 2030.

Is it really THAT important to you?  

[krazeeboi]

CorgiMatt, on Jun 6 2009, 09:16 AM, said:

And about the time I decide I'm moving to Charleston because it's the biggest, a major hurricane will come along and blow 'em all up to Columbia.

Don't say that.

[Spartan]

CorgiMatt, on Jun 6 2009, 10:01 AM, said:

Why didn't they just look at the Census Bureau's projections?  The ones I've seen have Columbia having the most in 2030.

The Census has good estimates, but they are not the "end all be all" with population projects. There are multiple methodologies that can be used when projecting population growth. The SC Office of Research & Statistics has its own projections that are just as valid as the Census or these new ones.

[CorgiMatt]

Hmm, according to the South Carolina Office of Reasearch and Statistics, in 2030 it will be Columbia 887,870 and Charleston 746,530.  And in 2035 it will be Columbia 927,320 and Charleston 771,140.  I guess I'll stay in Columbia after all.  I was already planning my yard sale.

http://www.sccommuni...us/proj2035.php

Edited by CorgiMatt, 07 June 2009 - 06:46 AM.

[CorgiMatt]

And I guess Demographia's guess is as good as anyone's.

http://www.demograph...msaproj2030.pdf

Edited by CorgiMatt, 07 June 2009 - 07:36 AM.

[citylife]

Why do you care so much whether Columbia is the biggest in the state or not when it comes to population? I just don't see why people on this forum get so heated about who is the biggest in the state. I'm not going to switch jobs and move to a different city because one city is bigger than the one I currently live in.

Edited by citylife, 07 June 2009 - 04:34 PM.

[GvilleSC]

citylife, on Jun 7 2009, 06:32 PM, said:

Why do you care so much whether Columbia is the biggest in the state or not when it comes to population? I just don't see why people on this forum get so heated about who is the biggest in the state. I'm not going to switch jobs and move to a different city because one city is bigger than the one I currently live in.

Bigger means better, right?   ...    clearly not always.

The projections have the Greenville metro adding, on average, about 8,000/year. Greenville County alone has been adding well over that for the past several years. However, they ARE estimates. I'll give serious thought to the 2025 numbers, when 2025 gets here. As for now, it's 2009 and other than an economic slow down, Greenville is looking great, still adding great projects to the City and County, improving the details, and taking care of each day a day at a time.

[CorgiMatt]

Here's Proximity's take on MSA population projections to the year 2020.  I guess they know as much as Bizjournal, huh?

http://proximityone....ros.htm#msa2020

Actually their methodology is more comprehensive and makes more sense than any other I've seen.

Edited by CorgiMatt, 13 June 2009 - 07:59 AM.

[randy1]

citylife, on Jun 7 2009, 06:32 PM, said:

Why do you care so much whether Columbia is the biggest in the state or not when it comes to population? I just don't see why people on this forum get so heated about who is the biggest in the state. I'm not going to switch jobs and move to a different city because one city is bigger than the one I currently live in.

Citylife, I have been wondering the same thing.    Columbia is no larger than any of the other two major ones in the state. I guess if we don't acknowledge Columbia then people get bent out of shape.

[distortedlogic]

Remember that these numbers assume the current MSA designations will be the same in 2020, 2030, and 2035.  I think that is highly unlikely, even for all three major metros. Also, we are talking about 3 pretty even metros here and give or take 100k will not really make a noticeable difference either way. Especially since the big 3 border right up to other metros (not included), so it is difficult to tell where metros end or begin anyway. Ex. when driving through Greer; unless you see a county line sign, can you really tell when you have gone from Gville MSA to Sptbg MSA? What about driving from Easley through Powdersville. Can you really tell these are two seperate MSA's without the "Welcome to Anderson County" sign? I am sure the same can be said for metros bordering Chas and Cola. We are splitting hairs here guys.  

[Spartan]

I can settle this pretty easily. Greenville and Spartanburg will be recombined at some point. Most likely in 2010 but certainly by 2020. Regardless of when it occurs, Greenville-Spartanburg will be the largest MSA in South Carolina (again).

[CorgiMatt]

We have to remember that the GSA MSA never went away.  It's just that for the purpose of reporting unemployment figures, GDP figures, etc. , CBMSA's (Core-based metropolitan statistical areas) are now used instead.  Is Spartanburg going to volunteer or are they going to have to give in and say that Greenville is the core and they are a suburb?  Will Durham, NC, do that for Raleigh as well?

[krazeeboi]

Spartan, on Jul 31 2009, 03:05 PM, said:

I can settle this pretty easily. Greenville and Spartanburg will be recombined at some point. Most likely in 2010 but certainly by 2020. Regardless of when it occurs, Greenville-Spartanburg will be the largest MSA in South Carolina (again).

It could actually happen at any time. MSA designations can change in off years. Wasn't it in 2003 that GSP got split up and Columbia had a few other counties added to its MSA?

[CorgiMatt]

Columbia never had any counties added to its MSA.  The Census Bureau created the new designation: core-based metropolitan areas as a truer reflection of a city's importance and relationships with its surrounding areas.  Columbia's MSA is still just Richland and Lexington counties, and the the GSA MSA never went anywhere.  The other counties surrounding Columbia are counted only as part of Columbia's core-based metropolitan area, not as part of its MSA.  It's not surprising that the two terms are getting used interchangeably, as did "metropolitan statistical area" and "metropolitan area," but they mean two different things.  MSA's always included even the rural parts of counties, while metropolitan areas counted only urban and suburban areas.  Core-based metropolitan areas count rural, suburban and urban areas, but count only one area as being at the core, usually only one city, Columbia for instance.  It's hard to think of Greenville as being the core compared with the other two cities in its MSA, because the other two cities have too much of their own thing going on, and the three cities together aren't enough of a core compared with the rest of the Upstate's population layout, according to the Census Bureau.  In order for that to change we would need to see a lot more sprawl across the Upstate counties so that the population of the Upstate as a whole thought of Greenville, Spartanburg and Anderson altogether as their core.  When and if that happens there will be a lot more sharing the glory among the Upstate's big three.

[krazeeboi]

CorgiMatt, on Jul 31 2009, 04:56 PM, said:

Columbia never had any counties added to its MSA.  The Census Bureau created the new designation: core-based metropolitan areas as a truer reflection of a city's importance and relationships with its surrounding areas.  Columbia's MSA is still just Richland and Lexington counties, and the the GSA MSA never went anywhere.  The other counties surrounding Columbia are counted only as part of Columbia's core-based metropolitan area, not as part of its MSA.  It's not surprising that the two terms are getting used interchangeably, as did "metropolitan statistical area" and "metropolitan area," but they mean two different things.  MSA's always included even the rural parts of counties, while metropolitan areas counted only urban and suburban areas.  Core-based metropolitan areas count rural, suburban and urban areas, but count only one area as being at the core, usually only one city, Columbia for instance.

This is incorrect according to the Census Bureau: "Metropolitan and micropolitan statistical areas (metro and micro areas) are geographic entities defined by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget (OMB) for use by Federal statistical agencies in collecting, tabulating, and publishing Federal statistics. The term 'Core Based Statistical Area' (CBSA) is a collective term for both metro and micro areas. A metro area contains a core urban area of 50,000 or more population, and a micro area contains an urban core of at least 10,000 (but less than 50,000) population."

Furthermore, this OMB attachment from 2007 shows that Columbia's metropolitan statistical area officially consists of Richland, Lexington, Kershaw, Fairfield, and Calhoun counties (pg. 29); Greenville's consists of Greenville, Pickens, and Laurens counties (pg. 34); and Spartanburg's consists of only Spartanburg County (pg. 50).