208 replies to this topic

[Beany]

I am glad to hear the school admin building design may not be set in stone.  I guess we will just have to see how everything plays out.  I probably shouldn't judge too much now because everything is so uncertain and undecided.

My understanding is the hotel would be identical to the hotel being built in Memphis.  I am sure using the same plans would be a big cost savings.

[cityboi]

It would have been nice if the hotel was around 10-stories but nevertheless this will be a great project. Im hoping the hotel will spur some kind of entertainment options as well. I'm still wanting to see a downtown multiplex theater.

Edited by cityboi, 02 July 2009 - 02:43 PM.

[cityboi]

here is the website for the group the developer put together for this project. You can see the experience involved and the kind of projects this group has already built. This hotel would actually have more rooms than the 11-story downtown Marriott. That hotel has 274 rooms.

http://urbanhotelgroup.com/

Edited by cityboi, 02 July 2009 - 09:17 PM.

[cityboi]

http://www.news-reco...d_to_help_hotel

http://triad.bizjour...ml?jst=pn_pn_lk

bond sale may be used to help build the $75 million hotel

Edited by cityboi, 08 July 2009 - 03:13 PM.

[citykidd]

I like the idea of building up s. elm street, but at what cost? The city of greensboro has many roads that need to fix, and badly too. Funding should be spent of better street lighting and roadway construction as a priority.

[cityboi]

Im sure the developer will ask the city for incentives like Roy Carroll did for Center Pointe. This may happen without much city help if the stimulus federal dollars come in. But I guess some would argue that even using federal money to help a private venture is a bad idea. It could be much worse though. I just read where $800,000 of federal stimulus money was spent to keep animals off the runway on a small airport that has very little air traffic. The money was spent because a plane run over a Squirrel back in 1996.

The design of the hotel is really nice. It would be even nicer if it looked something like this



that would blend in even better with the architecture along South Elm and it would have a warehouse/loft feel too it much like the Proximity Hotel. BTW I still think that hotel should have been built downtown. The downtown setting was more fitting for it instead of being built in an office park 2 miles away. Next to the ballpark on the chevrolet service lot would have been the perfect location for the Proximity Hotel. The design could have been the same but replace the gray concrete exterior with a brown brick exterior.

The Proximity would look good at South Elm or next to the ballpark. Downtown needs a hotel like the Proximity. BTW The Proximty Hotel has been listed as one of the top 50 business hotels in the WORLD.






overlooking Wendover Ave and the Friendly Center "midrise skyline" Imagine if this hotel were looking over downtown instead

Edited by cityboi, 14 July 2009 - 10:17 PM.

[twincity]

Changes made to the South Elm hotel proposal.  Read the full story here:

http://triad.bizjour...8667200^1865469

[beyonce245]

twincity, on Jul 24 2009, 12:23 PM, said:

Changes made to the South Elm hotel proposal.  Read the full story here:

http://triad.bizjour...8667200^1865469

Again, I'm going to reserve judgment on this project until something, if anything, materializes.  As the article says, the City will be selling this land at below market value rates, so I'm confident that something worthy of that land will be built in the near future.

I still think the chateau-esque look is wrong, but whatev.

[cityboi]

Even at 200 rooms this will still be a great project. I also wouldnt assume that rendering will be the final design. More than likely its a conceptual rendering. The first rendering of Greensboro's downtown ballpark looks nothing like the final product. Something I couldnt help but notice. This is the second time a minority developer has proposed something downtown and both times other developers and city leaders were skeptical. They didnt seem as skeptical when other similar projects were proposed by white developers. If they were critical, they werent as vocal about it. I disagree with the notion in the article that building a project like this near neighborhoods with public housing is a bad idea. This has already been done before. All you have to do is look at Southside where there are $500,000 townhomes and an upscale wine cafe less than a mile away from questionable areas. As a matter of fact a well known local tv weatherman lives in one of the townhomes and another weatherman lives at CityView apartments in Southside. If the goal is to redevelop these areas, developers shouldn't run away from them. In any case I think Southside, which borders the land will help solidify the project.

Edited by cityboi, 24 July 2009 - 11:07 AM.

[RALNATIVE]

This sounds like deja vu (i.e. Triumph Center). I think that those who are being skeptical are being so for good reason. I don't think that it has anything to do with the race of the developer, but moreso with their lack of understanding of demographics and track record in delivering large developments. If you read the article, their dealings in Memphis sound almost like a scam.

None of the mentioned proposals make sense from an economic perspective. If revitalization is what Greensboro has in mind, building luxury hotels and towers is not the answer. They should focus on providing incentives to developers who will build affordable but upscale housing and recruiting companies to bring their higher paying jobs downtown. That is how a revitalization begins...not by building European style luxury hotels in questionable neighborhoods.

The City of Greensboro really does need to stop entertaining these pie-in-the-sky proposals. It hurts the city's image everytime they fail to materialize.

Edited by RALNATIVE, 24 July 2009 - 11:34 AM.

[sean]

i bit my tongue when i heard 300 rooms... there just isn't market support for that size.  for example grandover isn't even 300 rooms and it has a golf course, large capacity for events, and interstate highway frontage... and yet it most often has lots of empty rooms on prime weekends.

give these developers some time to work out a viable project; they appear to be sharp and capable.

if you really want this to succeed, you might not want to not hamper their efforts with armchair speculation.  if the developers spend all their time refuting misinformation and clarifying blogosphere speculation, they'll be unable to convey a coherent and compelling business plan.  see greensboro triumph center.

[beyonce245]

RALNATIVE, on Jul 24 2009, 01:30 PM, said:

The City of Greensboro really does need to stop entertaining these pie-in-the-sky proposals. It hurts the city's image everytime they fail to materialize.

They're right.  Let's follow Raleigh's lead and building another surface parking lot.

Edited by beyonce245, 24 July 2009 - 11:49 AM.

[cityboi]

RALNATIVE, on Jul 24 2009, 11:30 AM, said:

This sounds like deja vu (i.e. Triumph Center). I think that those who are being skeptical are being so for good reason. I don't think that it has anything to do with the race of the developer, but moreso with their lack of understanding of demographics and track record in delivering large developments. If you read the article, their dealings in Memphis sound almost like a scam.

None of the mentioned proposals make sense from an economic perspective. If revitalization is what Greensboro has in mind, building luxury hotels and towers is not the answer. They should focus on providing incentives to developers who will build affordable but upscale housing and recruiting companies to bring their higher paying jobs downtown. That is how a revitalization begins...not by building European style luxury hotels in questionable neighborhoods.

The City of Greensboro really does need to stop entertaining these pie-in-the-sky proposals. It hurts the city's image everytime they fail to materialize.

I didnt know building a 200 room hotel was pie in the sky. This project is nothing like the Greensboro Triumph Center. The only comparison is that both developers are black. Triumph Center was suspose to be sort of a Las Vegas/Disney stlye entertainment complex with hotels and a convention center. we are only talking about a 200 room hotel at Lee and Elm not a half a billion dollar "mystery project". This hotel project isnt pie in the sky especially since the rooms have been reduced from 300 to 200. But I dont think its impossible for Greensboro to support a 300 room hotel because people forget that the largest hotel between Atlanta and Washington DC has 1,014 hotel rooms and its in Greensboro. But I think this project is even more realistic project since federal dollars and other tax credits will help the project along, something other developers could not get for their downtown hotel proposals. If they could get such help, we'd have an 8-story Hampton Inn on the corner of Greene and McGee Streets today.

"That is how a revitalization begins...not by building European style luxury hotels in questionable neighborhoods."

We have French New Orleans Style upscale establishments downtown on the edge of "questionable neighborhoods". What if the developer of Southside listened to the skeptics? If he did Southside would still be a rundown neighborhood of crime and prostitution instead of an upscale neighborhood that has received a number of national awards and has become a model for infill development. Remember at one time Southside was no differnt from these "questionable areas" that you are refering to. So if Southside can be transformed, so can South Elm/Lee. Im sure the skeptics of Southside thought white upper middle to upper class would never move to this neighborhood and live on a street called Martin Luther King Jr Dr. I'm sure the skeptics thought who in their right mind would build half a milion dollar townhomes just blocks away from "questionable areas". Yet it happened and they are owned by many white middle to upper class residents. Who would have thought 10 years ago that Greensboro's downtown nightlife would be at the level that it is at today. One thing I've learned is that things can happen in Greensboro if there is a will and strong support behind it. In reagrds to this hotel project, If the developer cant secure the federal redevelopment stimulus money, the project will likely die. The stimulus money is the difference in this project and other downtown hotel projects that have failed.

Edited by cityboi, 24 July 2009 - 12:21 PM.

[RALNATIVE]

cityboi, on Jul 24 2009, 10:50 AM, said:

This hotel project isnt pie in the sky especially since the rooms have been reduced from 300 to 200.

What does that prove?

What's more telling is the fact that they're already making changes to their "plans" even before submitting a proposal to the city council and making any kind of formal announcement.

In terms of comparisions, let's see:

1) Both developers have connections with Greensboro and seemingly want to deliver something ground-breaking to GSO.

2) Both developrs have had some questionable business dealings in other cities.

3) Both developers leaked their "plans" of a proposal to the media and others before any land deals were reached. Saying that something will be located at S. Elm St. is not the same as having land under contract and being ready to break ground.

There are so many similarities that make both of these proposals questionable.

[cityboi]

RALNATIVE, on Jul 24 2009, 12:13 PM, said:

What does that prove?

What's more telling is the fact that they're already making changes to their "plans" even before submitting a proposal to the city council and making any kind of formal announcement.

In terms of comparisions, let's see:

1) Both developers have connections with Greensboro and seemingly want to deliver something ground-breaking to GSO.

2) Both developrs have had some questionable business dealings in other cities.

3) Both developers leaked their "plans" of a proposal to the media and others before any land deals were reached. Saying that something will be located at S. Elm St. is not the same as having land under contract and being ready to break ground.

There are so many similarities that make both of these proposals questionable.

While a 200 room hotel will help downtown redevelopment its hardly ground breaking. A downtown hotel isnt a new concept for Greensboro.
I can also think of a number of projects that have been leaked before land was under contract and have been built. CityView Apartments and the ballpark are just two examples. BTW many thought the ballpark project to be "pie in the sky"

Edited by cityboi, 24 July 2009 - 12:27 PM.

[beyonce245]

RALNATIVE, on Jul 24 2009, 02:13 PM, said:

What's more telling is the fact that they're already making changes to their "plans" even before submitting a proposal to the city council and making any kind of formal announcement.

The articles said, in part, "Chisholm says she just received a market analysis of downtown Greensboro from Interim Hospitality Consultants of Tallahassee, Fla., which has her “redefining” her eventual proposal."

Whether this project moves forward or not, isn't this the kind of smart decision-making we should welcome?  The developer is making practical modifications to suit the needs and market feasibility of the area.

The plan may be grand and Chisholm doesn't have any experience with hotels, which is why I remain skeptical.  But being proactive and changing plans to meet thresholds of what the area can support is certainly not "pie in the sky."  

It's good business.

[RALNATIVE]

beyonce245, on Jul 24 2009, 11:38 AM, said:

The articles said, in part, "Chisholm says she just received a market analysis of downtown Greensboro from Interim Hospitality Consultants of Tallahassee, Fla., which has her "redefining" her eventual proposal."

Whether this project moves forward or not, isn't this the kind of smart decision-making we should welcome? The developer is making practical modifications to suit the needs and market feasibility of the area.

The plan may be grand and Chisholm doesn't have any experience with hotels, which is why I remain skeptical. But being proactive and changing plans to meet thresholds of what the area can support is certainly not "pie in the sky."

It's good business.

A market analysis is one thing, a feasibility study takes it to another level. In any event, they both need to occur before making any plans and leaking them to the media.

That is what you call good business sense.

This is why many veteran developers are skeptical about these projects.

Edited by RALNATIVE, 24 July 2009 - 12:50 PM.

[beyonce245]

RALNATIVE, on Jul 24 2009, 02:49 PM, said:

A market analysis is one thing, a feasibility study takes it to another level. In any event, they both need to occur before making any plans and leaking them to the media.

That is what you call good business sense.

This is why many veteran developers are skeptical about these projects.

Don't be shy.  Tell us what multimillion dollar development you've spearheaded recently.  I'm being serious, if you have some expert knowledge in this field, then share it so the rest of us can have a better understanding of your opinion.

[cityboi]

RALNATIVE, on Jul 24 2009, 12:49 PM, said:

A market analysis is one thing, a feasibility study takes it to another level. In any event, they both need to occur before making any plans and leaking them to the media.

That is what you call good business sense.

This is why many veteran developers are skeptical about these projects.

like veteran Roy Carroll who leaked his plans and visionary rendering for a 30-story tower next to Center Pointe and his mid-rise to high-rise dreams for land across the street from the ballpark on Eugene?

Edited by cityboi, 24 July 2009 - 01:04 PM.

[RALNATIVE]

cityboi, on Jul 24 2009, 12:01 PM, said:

like veteran Roy Carroll who leaked his plans and visionary rendering for a 30-story tower next to Center Pointe and his mid-rise to high-rise dreams for land across the street from the ballpark on Eugene?

From what I understand, he wasn't the one who leaked those plans...some over zealous, news hungry people did.

Honestly, from the responses and reactions that i'm seeing here, no wonder developers such as these seem to constantly target Greensboro for their ideas.