3 replies to this topic

[nuplanner]

Some interesting articles that came out latley in the az repub about the growth the valley is predicted to gain.  

First is about 400 new freeway miles and 320 miles of rail.  
http://www.azcentral...refreeways.html


The next is about high speed rail, and how the valley is not on the feds plans?  Kind of weird that the fifth largest city is not connected to the 2nd largest citeis etc.
http://www.azcentral...strail1008.html

last is about a concept some have been talking about for high speed rail.
http://www.solarbull...page/index.html

[MJLO]

what's the chance that any of this actually comes to fruition?

[nuplanner]

From freeways, light rail, and commuter rail; I think most of this will come to fruition.  The high speed rail is a different story I think.  I think the 5th largest city should have a connection at least to the 2nd largest city in the nation.  

I think this goes to show how Arizona is always behind the trends and curve of innovation.  We seem to always be waiting to see what happens and not creative or innovative till this day.  

Some history for you all.  About 40-50 years ago, many in the valley did not want freeways, or the connection of I-10 between Phx and LA.  That eventually happen in the 70's.  This could be good or bad because many saw that this would help this area boom and many did not want that.  

In the early 80’s, the life cycle program that has been finished (besides the south mtn loop) was voted and approved.  One freeway the state wanted was the Paradise valley freeway.  A east-west freeway that was north of I-10 section that plowed through many neighborhoods and was overturned and never built.  During this same time, planners tried with this before hand to get Monorail, which of course was voted down.  It took till Prop 400 to get light rail or any mass transit system outside of busses.  We could have been at the forefront and the valley could have looked different then it does today.  But of course, residents voted it down and are behind the curve for almost 2 decades.  



Now, we can continue to move forward by building more roads (freeways) and allow the valley to expand outwards and sprawl into the virgin desert.  That is what you see with the 400 miles of freeways.  Yes, over 300 miles of rail is in the plan, but you don’t see that apart of the map.  I think it shows that we still are not innovative or ahead of the curve.  We focus on roads!



Now, I believe we should be looking at high speed rail routs.  Im not sure if that is a pressing need, but should be thought about, planned for if we have possible routes etc.  I do really like the idea of the solar high speed trail.  It’s a creative idea and should turn some heads.  But money will always be an issue.



I think the most important issues before expanding more freeways is to look at alternative transit and to speed that forward.  This is how I see it as of importance if we are going to plan in phases.

Commuter rail
Light rail
Freeways
High Speed Rail



This is going off a bit, but if you look at how Pinal county looked at how they are going to grow, you might have to say it was a very creative for a rural county to do.  We have see AZ reality check, but does this transportation plan reflect that?  



http://www.azonefuture.com/



This might be out of the norm, especially here.  Why don’t we reverse this plan of freeways and transit, and look at the land we want to preserve and set aside for open space?  Why not plan around our natural beauties instead of where roads go?  Roads should be one of the last things thought about IMO.  



That is my two cents.  Now I would like to hear what you all think about this?

[MJLO]

nuplanner, on Oct 14 2009, 08:19 PM, said:

From freeways, light rail, and commuter rail; I think most of this will come to fruition.  The high speed rail is a different story I think.  I think the 5th largest city should have a connection at least to the 2nd largest city in the nation.  

I think this goes to show how Arizona is always behind the trends and curve of innovation.  We seem to always be waiting to see what happens and not creative or innovative till this day.  

Some history for you all.  About 40-50 years ago, many in the valley did not want freeways, or the connection of I-10 between Phx and LA.  That eventually happen in the 70's.  This could be good or bad because many saw that this would help this area boom and many did not want that.  

In the early 80’s, the life cycle program that has been finished (besides the south mtn loop) was voted and approved.  One freeway the state wanted was the Paradise valley freeway.  A east-west freeway that was north of I-10 section that plowed through many neighborhoods and was overturned and never built.  During this same time, planners tried with this before hand to get Monorail, which of course was voted down.  It took till Prop 400 to get light rail or any mass transit system outside of busses.  We could have been at the forefront and the valley could have looked different then it does today.  But of course, residents voted it down and are behind the curve for almost 2 decades.

I think this comment hits on something that has bothered me about the valley since I first moved here.  First of all, part of the problem, is that population growth has simply out paced the capacity of the infrastructure, to where the state would be playing catch up with the population regardless.  But more importantly, why do long time valley natives stand so firmly in the way of progress?   I can see where some people want to preserve a certain way of life, but they are also preventing Phoenix from becoming a true national player.  The Valley lacks alot of amenities that would make it attractive to new companies and profesionals, and those people want nothing to do with things that could help change that.  Thereby solidifying PHX into permanant mediocrity, doomed do a boom/bust economy fueled only by growth itself.  This is no bueno.