41 replies to this topic

[Miesian Corners]

This was the CCCP's update on facebook today:  

We will have two market consultants in town this week conducting both a feasibility study and a site survey for a potential year-round Charlotte City Market in Uptown. If you have any comments or suggestions you want to share with the consultants please send them to me at tboyd@charlottecentercity.org. We'd like as much constructive feedback as possible!

I can think of two good sites off the top of my head.  First is the block bounded by LRT/3rd/4th/Brevard.  It's vacant, adjacent to two different modes of public transit, and it's in the heart of uptown.  Of course, the big stumbling block of the site is that it's owned by the NCRR and they've never proved to be very helpful about most anything.

The second site I can think of is the vacant land that will back up to the new rail platforms in Third Ward (Graham ST side).  That land will also be adjacent to different modes of transport and could be incorporated into the new rail lines as they're built (under them).  I've seen this in two European cities (Berlin and Wroclaw)  where rail is built (and runs) above market stalls, restaurants, and shops.  

What do y'all think?  Other/better ideas?  I'm sure they folks at CCCP would love to hear them.

Edited by Miesian Corners, 10 February 2010 - 03:41 PM.

[Spartan]

I heard that the site owned by NCRR is going to be redeveloped someday. Obviously nobody knows when at this point, but that is some prime real estate.

My semi-sarcastic response is to just use Trade Street between Tryon and the LRT, particularly in front of the Epicenter and the Omni since that is two solid blocks of dead space. Being lined with market space would be an improvement (think the Italian Market in Philly).

What about taking that useless "green space" next to the GrantThorton building on 3rd St, and hook that in to 3rd Street Station? It's also owned by NCRR, but it may be more feasible to get them to let go of that property sooner than the revenue-generating parking lots on the other side of the tracks.

[Forrest]

Whatever they do, do it for real. Not some potemkin village that is dead when it's not summertime.  Include permanent retail on the outside.  And retail does not mean a bunch express chain counters like the food court in SouthPark.  We suffer from an acute case of generic overload in this town and I would just as well have nothing than another plastic experience.

[nonillogical]

i thought this was first planned as part of the Center City Green, and then for somewhere in 1st ward. if nothing else concrete has been planned, i vote for the  half block between 7th, 8th, and LRT (including the unpaved space where they used to have temporary markets in the summer).

it would pair well with Reid's, the LRT station, and the 1st ward park when complete. i would much prefer a location with some currently dead space around it where some future smart development and retail would be encouraged, rather than simply sandwiching it in as close the the center of uptown as possible.

[ScottCLT]

I'm a huge fan of turning the Virginia Paper Company building into a public market. It needs to be spruced up quite a bit, and possibly have an expansion done in what appears to be an adjacent gravel parking lot.

[Neo]

^ I agree with the last two locations. Either one would be just fine, though I'm leaning more towards the area by the 7th Street LRT station. It really needs to be a location easily accessible and one that offers something in addition such as a park. I can't believe places like Baton Rouge have such great markets while it is still just a dream for us.

[InitialD]

nonillogical, on 10 February 2010 - 05:56 PM, said:

i thought this was first planned as part of the Center City Green, and then for somewhere in 1st ward. if nothing else concrete has been planned, i vote for the  half block between 7th, 8th, and LRT (including the unpaved space where they used to have temporary markets in the summer).

it would pair well with Reid's, the LRT station, and the 1st ward park when complete. i would much prefer a location with some currently dead space around it where some future smart development and retail would be encouraged, rather than simply sandwiching it in as close the the center of uptown as possible.

Yes, I thought this was part of the 1st Ward plan, which included a Market Street along the LRT between 7th and 9th.

[palmetto75]

Its not uptown and as such probably not desired by CCCP, but what about under the Lynx bridge from Tyvola to Archdale.  The RR ROW might pose a problem, but other than that it should be free land.

Of course my best location has always been the old Wal-Mart on Arrowood and South Blvd.  This space would be big enough to move the Farmer's Market to as well as create some indoor stalls/restaurants for a true Market.  Not to mention redevelop the massive sea of a parking lot.  It is a short walk from the Lynx.   It could have been funded in part by selling the old FM site to the City Park developers.  That part might prove a little difficult now, but worth a shot.  My opinion is you will never have a true, complete year round market w/o integrating the current Farmers Market.  This is both from a scale and diversity of operation and the fact that the FM gets state funding that could be utilized.

[Urbanity]

ScottCLT, on 10 February 2010 - 06:02 PM, said:

I'm a huge fan of turning the Virginia Paper Company building into a public market. It needs to be spruced up quite a bit, and possibly have an expansion done in what appears to be an adjacent gravel parking lot.

I'm also a huge fan of this idea.

[krazeeboi]

ScottCLT, on 10 February 2010 - 06:02 PM, said:

I'm a huge fan of turning the Virginia Paper Company building into a public market. It needs to be spruced up quite a bit, and possibly have an expansion done in what appears to be an adjacent gravel parking lot.

I like this idea. Although not immediately next to the LYNX line, it will be next to Romare Bearden park. Having a park surrounded by multiple uses makes it all the more successful, and a permanent farmer's market would definitely help in that aspect.

[dbull75]

I agree with using the Virginia Paper building... #1 it would be reuse of existing building and #2 as others have pointed out having it next to the new Romare Bearden park will help liven that area immensely. I think one of the Observer Editors actually had suggested this very idea not too long ago.

[palmetto75]

Looking into it a little more, I agree the VPC spot would be a fantastic site.  Am I correct to assume the city bought this back in 2001 for the park? Its not quite nextdoor but this site would tie nicely to Brevard Ct as well at least from a historical angle.

[southslider]

Uptown needs an urban market, for which I agree, the Virginia Paper building seems a great location.  Maybe on summer and mild-weather weekends, the market could spill out into additional outdoor vendors along or select locations within Romare Bearden.

As for replacing the sprawling auto-oriented market out on Billy Graham, I think some of the vacant strip malls and car dealerships along Independence would make a great location for that kind of market.  I believe Charlotte could support two very different farmers markets in Uptown and along Independence.

[Miesian Corners]

I also agree that the Virginia Paper building is a great spot--trouble is, it's supposed to be demolished (or it least is was the last time I heard).

[archiham04]

I think that a pedestrian only market is a LONG way off in Charlotte.  Even world class cities like Rome with uber-density are having trouble supporting markets like these. Charlotte's Market will have to be an auto/pedestrian hybrid.  The Current REGIONAL farmer's market is just that... REGIONAL.  It brings country, urban, suburban, and exurban together.  That is one of the beauties of these types of markets.  

I don't think bringing autos in is a totally bad thing either.  I can't think of many markets that truly mix the two successfully, and the design of the building would be critical to its success.  What a unique architectural opportunity.  UNIQUE... something Charlotte needs more of.

Edited by archiham04, 12 February 2010 - 08:20 AM.

[DMann]

Miesian Corners, on 12 February 2010 - 07:46 AM, said:

I also agree that the Virginia Paper building is a great spot--trouble is, it's supposed to be demolished (or it least is was the last time I heard).

Just a couple of observations.  The Virginia Paper building being two stories does not make for good traffic flow.  It is basically in comfortable walking distance to TradeMark and Catalyst, and not much else.  It is not on a natural walking route for uptown residents, and parking will be a difficulty for others.  Retrofitting the Virginia Paper building will be probematic due to its construction.  It was designed to hold huge rolls of paper, and the concrete floors are extremely thick.
There have been ample opportunities for many to redevelop that building, even in better times, and all have walked from it due to the costs.
My view is that for the green market to be successful it needs to be walkable.  Anywhere along the rail in the First Ward would be great.  Another possibility could be on the spit of land where Fifth and Sixth Streets meet by Gateway.

DMann

[Miesian Corners]

DMann, on 12 February 2010 - 08:20 AM, said:

Just a couple of observations.  The Virginia Paper building being two stories does not make for good traffic flow.  It is basically in comfortable walking distance to TradeMark and Catalyst, and not much else.  It is not on a natural walking route for uptown residents, and parking will be a difficulty for others.  Retrofitting the Virginia Paper building will be probematic due to its construction.  It was designed to hold huge rolls of paper, and the concrete floors are extremely thick.
There have been ample opportunities for many to redevelop that building, even in better times, and all have walked from it due to the costs.
My view is that for the green market to be successful it needs to be walkable.  Anywhere along the rail in the First Ward would be great.  Another possibility could be on the spit of land where Fifth and Sixth Streets meet by Gateway.

DMann

FYI, Roanoke, Virginia's market is two stories (and it's nearly 100 years old).  It's been in constant use since it was built (Roanoke City Market). Also, remember there will be a large park next door, a new train station, and it's within walking distance to 3rd and 4th wards (not to mention Gateway Village).

[Rufus]

For Uptown, VPC and/or First Ward would be great locations.  VPC has the building heritage and the location next to the future park.  First Ward would be in the area with the greatest population within uptown, since it would be close to Fourth Ward too.  I also like the idea of moving the Billy Graham Pkwy market to Independence Blvd.  I think it would be a great location for an "ethnic" market, selling goods that appeal to the diversity growing on the east side.

[Urbanity]

DMann, on 12 February 2010 - 08:20 AM, said:

Just a couple of observations.  The Virginia Paper building being two stories does not make for good traffic flow.  It is basically in comfortable walking distance to TradeMark and Catalyst, and not much else.  It is not on a natural walking route for uptown residents, and parking will be a difficulty for others.  
DMann

Huh?  You forget Post Uptown, Camden, Fifth and Poplar, all of 4th Ward, The Vue, And Gateway City residents to name a few... All of these are within a few blocks.

There is also all the workers Uptown  who would probably be in that area for lunch with the proposed Romare Bearden Park.  I know whenever I'm Uptown on a weekday I see plenty of people on their lunch hour walking from either North Tryon to Latta Arcade or South Tryon towards Rock Bottom.  Let's also not forget the Johnson and Wales students who would be big users of the market.  And we haven't even started counting tourists.

I just really disagree with the idea of it not being a natural walking route as I think your idea of a natural walking route is not correct.  I know people who are on the far end of First Ward who walk to Harris Teeter as I do people in Gateway who walk to Reid's.   The problem with this part of your observation is that you miss the whole point of living/working and wanting to live/work in Uptown - people don't want everything in one convenient strip - they want a city to explore and walk through.  And let's face it - Uptown in general is not a large area so we aren't talking miles but blocks.

As for mass transit: Let's also not forget the proposed Commuter rail and Gateway station.  Are they both several years off?  Sure, but so is the permanent Green market wherever it goes.

Finally I think you are also mistaken on the parking or else I just imagine all those people parking in that area on Panther Game days.

Edited by Urbanity, 12 February 2010 - 11:09 AM.

[Windsurfer]

Urbanity, on 12 February 2010 - 11:06 AM, said:

There is also all the workers Uptown  who would probably be in that area for lunch with the proposed Romare Bearden Park.  I know whenever I'm Uptown on a weekday I see plenty of people on their lunch hour walking from either North Tryon to Latta Arcade or South Tryon towards Rock Bottom.  Let's also not forget the Johnson and Wales students who would be big users of the market.  And we haven't even started counting tourists.


Finally I think you are also mistaken on the parking or else I just imagine all those people parking in that area on Panther Game days.

  I think this spot would be perfect for a market. Too bad about the Panthers game days though. The market would have to be suspended those days. It's a zoo on that side of town game day.

You're spot on with regards to Johnson and Wales. Chef Ramsey would have the students out at the market for fresh food by the dozens!