6 replies to this topic

[Dan]

Central Falls to fire every high school teacher

"Under threat of losing their jobs if they didn’t go along with extra work for not a lot of extra pay, the Central Falls Teachers’ Union refused Friday morning to accept a reform plan for one of the worst-performing high schools in the state."

[runawayjim]

Dan, on 17 February 2010 - 04:02 PM, said:

Central Falls to fire every high school teacher

"Under threat of losing their jobs if they didn’t go along with extra work for not a lot of extra pay, the Central Falls Teachers’ Union refused Friday morning to accept a reform plan for one of the worst-performing high schools in the state."

I hate to see people lose jobs, but I like when people stand up to unions like this.

[Dan]

runawayjim, on 17 February 2010 - 04:37 PM, said:

I hate to see people lose jobs, but I like when people stand up to unions like this.

Me too.  Bravo to Frances Gallo for sticking to her guns and not backing down to the union.  Now the school department administration can actually start managing the schools (Wow, what a concept!).  Under this plan, 50% of the teachers (many of them bad apples who the union had been protecting from being fired) will now be gone.  For good!  The top 50 can come back and lead the way.

If this plan works, it can serve as a great example of how we can save our failing inner city public schools, start actually getting value for our hard-earned tax money, and provide our children with a quality education.  The cost of public education is totally unsustainable, and we as taxpayers must not let the public employee unions continue to stick it to us in the middle of a recession.  This is a small step in the right direction.

Edited by Dan, 17 February 2010 - 07:24 PM.

[runawayjim]

Dan, on 17 February 2010 - 07:22 PM, said:

Me too.  Bravo to Frances Gallo for sticking to her guns and not backing down to the union.  Now the school department administration can actually start managing the schools (Wow, what a concept!).  Under this plan, 50% of the teachers (many of them bad apples who the union had been protecting from being fired) will now be gone.  For good!  The top 50 can come back and lead the way.

If this plan works, it can serve as a great example of how we can save our failing inner city public schools, start actually getting value for our hard-earned tax money, and provide our children with a quality education.  The cost of public education is totally unsustainable, and we as taxpayers must not let the public employee unions continue to stick it to us in the middle of a recession.  This is a small step in the right direction.

Well... I think teachers do deserve to be paid more, but they also need to be held to higher standards. I also don't believe publicly funded jobs should be unionized (and yes, I am a democrat).

This plan is a great way to get rid of the dead weight and let the rising stars shine. The biggest issue I have with unions, especially the teacher's union, is that it protects the dead weight and prevents the good ones from really pushing forward. What you see in private schools is teachers staying late after school to help students out. You don't see that quite as often in public schools, unless they're forced to. Even the ones who want to don't because of the union. My other issue with unions is once a position is unionized you don't have a choice to join the union or not. You either join it or find a new job. I couldn't become a public school teacher without being part of the teacher's union. The "progressives" call for the Employee Free Choice Act, allowing them to unionize. But isn't "free choice" really allowing people to decide they don't want to be part of the union, but keep their job? It's all or nothing with unions. That's not cool. I won't even touch upon the questionable behavior some of the other unions engage in... not to mention the big lame rat thing.

[vinylsideitall]

The newpaper reported that the average salary for a CF teacher is $72-75,000.  Ammortized over a year that is close to $100,000.  Not to mention benefits that are far superior to those in the private sector.

[Dan]

Teacher unions challenged in unprecedented face-off

Jim, how much do you think public school teachers should be paid?  Tenured public school teachers already make over twice as much as the average salary of private sector workers, not to mention free health care and lavish pensions.  And that's not to mention the 6 hour workdays, 2 weeks off for winter break, spring break, Christmas/New Years break, and the whole summer off.  

Other than that, I agree with everything you said.  You seem to be way out of touch with your party, though!  

[runawayjim]

Dan, on 02 March 2010 - 02:03 PM, said:

Teacher unions challenged in unprecedented face-off

Jim, how much do you think public school teachers should be paid?  Tenured public school teachers already make over twice as much as the average salary of private sector workers, not to mention free health care and lavish pensions.  And that's not to mention the 6 hour workdays, 2 weeks off for winter break, spring break, Christmas/New Years break, and the whole summer off.  

Other than that, I agree with everything you said.  You seem to be way out of touch with your party, though!  

I don't believe in party politics. I believe in the individual. We're stuck with the 2 party system and the party I most closely align with is the democrats.

I think $70-80k on average in the tougher school districts is fair (Central Falls is included here), while teachers in easier districts (generally those with more money, such as Barrington or East Greenwich) may not get paid quite as much (probably $60-70k on average). They do a whole lot more work than you think. I think the teachers' union was stupid in not taking the deal. They asked for way too much money. I also think that teachers need raises based on performance rather than what the union likes to call "experience". Number of years teaching only gets you so far. Teachers should absolutely NOT all be getting the same salary depending on years served. They should be getting a salary that they deserve and get fired if they aren't doing their jobs. They should NOT be protected by tenure unless they aren't meeting certain guidelines (which I don't have the expertise to list, but test scores and failure rate should be included). While I think everyone should have health insurance covered by the government if they can't afford to get it covered by themselves, I don't think teachers, or anyone in the public sector, should have it completely paid for. They should all be paying a portion of it (15% paid by the individual and 85% by the employer is generally fair).

This case is tough because many of the students are only going to school so that their families can still get welfare. The teachers can only do so much. But with a 50% failure rate you can't place all the blame on the students, even if many of them are not there to learn.

What you're calling a 6 hour workday is actually much longer. They generally go in around 7:30 and leave around 3:30. That's 8 hours. But you're not considering the amount of work they do outside of that grading assignments, writing lesson plans, etc. Many teachers also coach or help coach teams or lead student clubs. Sometimes they're paid for it, sometimes they're not. When they're paid for it, it's usually not a whole lot of money. Most people don't understand just how much teachers do and don't think they're nearly as important as they are. My life was shaped by my teachers when I was growing up. I went to private schools for a couple of reasons. When I was in public school, the students in my class were so bad, I was coming home with all the work I was supposed to be doing in school - this was 1st grade with a ton of homework. My parents put me in private school. I went to a private high school because the public one in my town was doing all sorts of weird things, like dropping class divisions, rank, etc. The honors students were taking classes with the lowest performing students, holding them back and forcing the low performers to learn at too fast a pace. Teachers at private schools (especially catholic schools) generally get paid quite a bit less than those at public schools. The ones who make a career out of it, rather than a stepping stone to public school, are extremely dedicated teachers, usually getting paid less than they are worth. They also tend to be held to higher standards.