I wonder if the light rail line is specifically for the medical city...
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High-Speed Rail
Started by
bic
, Feb 22 2010 11:46 PM
280 replies to this topic
#22
cloudship
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Posted 25 March 2010 - 07:59 PM
What is this from? I think there are some good ideas in there, but I also see a huge number of issues, among them a whole second airport terminal completely seperate, complicated routes, and a lot of new building. What is going to drive (and pay for) all of this?
Mind you, this idea stuff will eventually flush out some good ideas that CAN be adapted.
Mind you, this idea stuff will eventually flush out some good ideas that CAN be adapted.
#23
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Posted 26 March 2010 - 06:41 AM
steve_o, on 25 March 2010 - 06:51 PM, said:
I wonder if the light rail line is specifically for the medical city...
Agreed. Instead of heading west and serving mostly tourists, the initial LRT alignment should instead head east to UCF via Lake Nona, LockMart, and the Research Park. ROW acquisition would probably be cheaper too.
#24
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Posted 26 March 2010 - 08:28 AM
The second terminal has been in the works for years. It was put on the back burner after the 2001 tourism slump. It will eventually get built... Probably about 20 years out. This will all make sense in the long term.
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Posted 09 April 2010 - 04:57 PM
Full-Speed Ahead for Bullet Train Construction Bids
Work can start without all funds in hand, DOT official says.
By Bill Rufty
LEDGER POLITICAL EDITOR
Published: Thursday, April 8, 2010 at 11:38 p.m.
TALLAHASSEE | In January, President Obama presented Florida with $1.25 billion in high-speed rail stimulus money for the Orlando to Tampa bullet train.
It was about half of the $2.5 billion needed to get the project up and running, but that isn't slowing down the state Department of Transportation and its Florida Rail Enterprise.
Invitations to bid on preliminary construction along the Phase I high-speed rail corridor between Orlando and Tampa could be made by November, according to a Florida Department of Transportation official.
Actual construction on the main project could begin as early as November 2012 with the "bullet train'' operational sometime in 2015, said Nazih Haddad, the DOT official who has spent years overseeing development of passenger train services in the state.
Only one other state, California, is recognized by the Federal Railway Administration as having near ready plans for truly high-speed rail and that state probably won't have its system up and running until five years after the first fast train pulls out of the station in Florida, he said.
For almost three decades Florida officials have dreamed of and promoted high-speed rail with trains capable of more than 150 miles per hour.
Haddad told Ledger editors on Wednesday that he is confident the remaining $1.25 billion of the money will come shortly.
Congress just approved another large budget for high-speed rail.
Florida will either apply for enough to complete the project or the Federal Railway Administration may have other plans for funding the rest of the project, he said.
"Ours is a start-from-scratch project. The FRA recognized that they would have to provide additional money," he said.
If the state applies for the remainder of the money it would have to pay 20 percent of the additional money, which amounts to $200 million, unlike the $1.25 billion in stimulus money that required no matching funds.
That also won't be a barrier to the project, Haddad said, because during a special session in December the Legislature created a program to put $60 million annually into rail transportation development.
The planned preliminary construction or "early work" program - largely preparing the area for the major contractor by providing barriers along the intended path of the rail and other minor preparations - will provide some jobs early.
"We do not need all the money in hand before we begin," Haddad said.
The early work would create an "envelope" for the project from which the major contractor/operator could begin, and it will provide some jobs within months, Haddad said.
In the meantime, the department is completing revised preliminary engineering plans and cost estimates for the FRA and would-be builder/operators for the Orlando to Tampa route. A builder operator for the turnkey operation could be chosen in a little more than a year.
According to state Sen. Paula Dockery, R-Lakeland, there are three suitors on the horizon already to build the rail beds, provide train sets and operate the rail system.
Each is a consortium of various contractors and train operation firms from Korea, France and Japan, she said.
Both Korean and French consortiums propose a European-style bullet train with heavier equipment. The Japanese consortium, she said, would use the lighter and faster train system that was developed in that country.
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http://www.theledger...p=2&tc=pg&tc=ar
Work can start without all funds in hand, DOT official says.
By Bill Rufty
LEDGER POLITICAL EDITOR
Published: Thursday, April 8, 2010 at 11:38 p.m.
TALLAHASSEE | In January, President Obama presented Florida with $1.25 billion in high-speed rail stimulus money for the Orlando to Tampa bullet train.
It was about half of the $2.5 billion needed to get the project up and running, but that isn't slowing down the state Department of Transportation and its Florida Rail Enterprise.
Invitations to bid on preliminary construction along the Phase I high-speed rail corridor between Orlando and Tampa could be made by November, according to a Florida Department of Transportation official.
Actual construction on the main project could begin as early as November 2012 with the "bullet train'' operational sometime in 2015, said Nazih Haddad, the DOT official who has spent years overseeing development of passenger train services in the state.
Only one other state, California, is recognized by the Federal Railway Administration as having near ready plans for truly high-speed rail and that state probably won't have its system up and running until five years after the first fast train pulls out of the station in Florida, he said.
For almost three decades Florida officials have dreamed of and promoted high-speed rail with trains capable of more than 150 miles per hour.
Haddad told Ledger editors on Wednesday that he is confident the remaining $1.25 billion of the money will come shortly.
Congress just approved another large budget for high-speed rail.
Florida will either apply for enough to complete the project or the Federal Railway Administration may have other plans for funding the rest of the project, he said.
"Ours is a start-from-scratch project. The FRA recognized that they would have to provide additional money," he said.
If the state applies for the remainder of the money it would have to pay 20 percent of the additional money, which amounts to $200 million, unlike the $1.25 billion in stimulus money that required no matching funds.
That also won't be a barrier to the project, Haddad said, because during a special session in December the Legislature created a program to put $60 million annually into rail transportation development.
The planned preliminary construction or "early work" program - largely preparing the area for the major contractor by providing barriers along the intended path of the rail and other minor preparations - will provide some jobs early.
"We do not need all the money in hand before we begin," Haddad said.
The early work would create an "envelope" for the project from which the major contractor/operator could begin, and it will provide some jobs within months, Haddad said.
In the meantime, the department is completing revised preliminary engineering plans and cost estimates for the FRA and would-be builder/operators for the Orlando to Tampa route. A builder operator for the turnkey operation could be chosen in a little more than a year.
According to state Sen. Paula Dockery, R-Lakeland, there are three suitors on the horizon already to build the rail beds, provide train sets and operate the rail system.
Each is a consortium of various contractors and train operation firms from Korea, France and Japan, she said.
Both Korean and French consortiums propose a European-style bullet train with heavier equipment. The Japanese consortium, she said, would use the lighter and faster train system that was developed in that country.
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http://www.theledger...p=2&tc=pg&tc=ar
#26
prahaboheme
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Posted 10 April 2010 - 09:47 AM
Wow, Dockery has really come full circle on this issue. Strange, really.
#27
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#28
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Posted 09 October 2010 - 02:33 PM
Public Hearing Needed for High-Speed Rail Stop
I found this bit of info to be interesting:
Quote
A high-speed railway has to maintain roughly one elevation and very gradual curves. Where it's at the same level as the highway, it will have a barrier wall. There will be times when it can't drop and come back up with the road, so it will be slightly elevated on those sections.
In the Orlando area, where there are a lot of over- and underpasses, it will stay on a viaduct nearly all the time, Thibault said.
I-4 near Kathleen Road has a lot of overpasses, which forces the railway to run on an elevated track, whether there is a station there or not, Thibault said.
In the Orlando area, where there are a lot of over- and underpasses, it will stay on a viaduct nearly all the time, Thibault said.
I-4 near Kathleen Road has a lot of overpasses, which forces the railway to run on an elevated track, whether there is a station there or not, Thibault said.
I was under the impression that the train would run at-grade most of the time in Orlando but it sounds like it's mostly going to be elevated.
#29
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Posted 09 October 2010 - 05:34 PM
High speed rail does not need to be nearly as flat as conventional rails. Trains are lighter, electricity provides better traction, and momentum help passenger trains handle steeper grades. On the other hand, there is some benefit to just going all elevated. It does make contruction somewhat simpler and while the trains can handle it, it is boh faster and more comfortable for the passengers if it is flat.
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#31
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Posted 15 October 2010 - 09:56 AM
These articles are a bit numbing. They would suggest that trains are a foreign concept and that Orlando is somehow in new territory here. The US has a long history with mass transit, and the densely populated Northeast corridor is no stranger to "European-Style" train networks. This really just boils down to politics. Build the trains, build the walkable cities, and people will ditch their cars.
#32
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Posted 15 October 2010 - 10:51 AM
prahaboheme, on 15 October 2010 - 09:56 AM, said:
These articles are a bit numbing. They would suggest that trains are a foreign concept and that Orlando is somehow in new territory here. The US has a long history with mass transit, and the densely populated Northeast corridor is no stranger to "European-Style" train networks. This really just boils down to politics. Build the trains, build the walkable cities, and people will ditch their cars.
I happened to pick up a 1993 edition of Jane Jacobs' "The Death and Life of Great American Cities." It has a foreword she wrote not included in my edition and I had not previously seen it. In it, she notes there are "foot people" and "car people," and each group tends to see the other as visitors from some alien planet, although there is some overlap. For at least 70 years, the car people have ruled the roost, aided in the US by powerful interest groups such as the auto and oil industries. What articles like these, I think, are trying to do is to show the car people there is validity in the thinking of the other side; after all, the vast majority of Americans still live in the suburbs, and most have to have a car to get where they're going.
I am a dedicated foot person and do virtually everything in my life on foot - I designed my life to be able to do so - but still am forced to have a car to get to and from work (using Lynx from downtown to my office in the 'burbs requires an ordeal I would wish on no one - had light rail passed in the '90's, it would be a completely different story.) As a result, even though I only put about 5500 miles on my car in a year, I still have to pay all the expenses of auto ownership. Imagine the folks in the suburbs whose entire lives have been built around the car; ironically, due to suburbs being built further and further out from the core in the last few years, the mindset of many young adults is even worse than it was when I grew up in the '60's.
That, of course, is changing, thanks to social networking online and the New Urbanism movement to bring small town amenities to far-flung suburbs that we never had. Gallup studies recently have shown today's youngsters don't feel quite as much need for a car to exist as we did in years past (remember the GM ad, "it's not just your car, it's your FREEDOM?")
Nevertheless, it is going to require almost a complete change in the American culture most of us grew up with and I'm glad the discussion is finally taking place.
#33
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Posted 15 October 2010 - 12:13 PM
Jane Jacobs saw the truth for what it was. There does (or did) exists a war of two cultures in America (city dwellers and suburbanites for all they represent) and one would only have to look into the demographics of both to know what I'm talking about. Yet interestingly enough, due to what has happened in the housing market over the past 2 years, there is a sizable shift taking place where, all across America, suburbs are looking like inner cities and the inner city is rising in wealth. Clearly the rich aren't getting poorer and the poor aren't getting richer (when has that ever happened in this country?!?! Right-wing politicians would scream SOCIALISM at that thought) but people are moving out and others are moving in.
The Next Slums
Slumburbia
Those are a couple of articles that highlight my point.
The Next Slums
Slumburbia
Those are a couple of articles that highlight my point.
#34
cloudship
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Posted 15 October 2010 - 07:35 PM
Where to start with that. Yeah, there is a HUGE divide between the cities and the 'burbs, but even more so between the cities and the rural areas. Transportation is just one tiny little area of difference - areas such as social integration with other cultures, tax issues, jobs, economy, and even ideals and goals, are all quite out of touch with each other. And it is a huge divide.
Back to the trains, though, I disagree that America has experience in that area. Sure, we have had passenger rail in the past, but it was far removed from modern high speed rail today. Even the Northeast Corridor, the only (barely) arguable high speed rail in this country, is really old fashioned freight rail with a few modifications. We simply do not have modern rail building, modern car manufacturing, or modern standards. So yeah, the Florida project is new.
The problem is that we are not doing anything to take advantage of that. This is a project that should be a big economic driving force - to build a new industry in the Us. It should be a step forward from everything, to give the country a chance to get back in the game. Instead it is being trimmed back, and all that potential, which could be huge to central Florida, is now getting thrown out and foreign companies are going to be the ones to reap all the benefits.
Back to the trains, though, I disagree that America has experience in that area. Sure, we have had passenger rail in the past, but it was far removed from modern high speed rail today. Even the Northeast Corridor, the only (barely) arguable high speed rail in this country, is really old fashioned freight rail with a few modifications. We simply do not have modern rail building, modern car manufacturing, or modern standards. So yeah, the Florida project is new.
The problem is that we are not doing anything to take advantage of that. This is a project that should be a big economic driving force - to build a new industry in the Us. It should be a step forward from everything, to give the country a chance to get back in the game. Instead it is being trimmed back, and all that potential, which could be huge to central Florida, is now getting thrown out and foreign companies are going to be the ones to reap all the benefits.
#35
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Posted 21 October 2010 - 07:19 AM
Airport gets on board with rail
Orlando International Airport is ready to start spending money to one day have a rail station for high-speed trains and possibly commuter and light-rail trains as well.
The Greater Orlando Aviation Authority board Wednesday approved $744,000 to expand and detail the airport's rail station proposal enough that the Florida Rail Commission soon can roll it into the state's overall rail plans.
The rail commission hopes to begin identifying possible contractors as early as next month and to have set plans by late next year. If all goes well, high-speed trains could start running between Orlando International Airport and downtown Tampa, with three stops in between, by 2015.
The airport's proposal calls for a rail station connected to the air passenger terminal by a people-mover tram. The station could not only handle high-speed trains – first linking with Tampa and possibly eventually with Miami and other parts of the state – but also commuter and light rail trains from SunRail, from other parts of Orlando, should those become available. The aviation authority also wants to get the state's high-speed rail maintenance compound.
Continued
Orlando International Airport is ready to start spending money to one day have a rail station for high-speed trains and possibly commuter and light-rail trains as well.
The Greater Orlando Aviation Authority board Wednesday approved $744,000 to expand and detail the airport's rail station proposal enough that the Florida Rail Commission soon can roll it into the state's overall rail plans.
The rail commission hopes to begin identifying possible contractors as early as next month and to have set plans by late next year. If all goes well, high-speed trains could start running between Orlando International Airport and downtown Tampa, with three stops in between, by 2015.
The airport's proposal calls for a rail station connected to the air passenger terminal by a people-mover tram. The station could not only handle high-speed trains – first linking with Tampa and possibly eventually with Miami and other parts of the state – but also commuter and light rail trains from SunRail, from other parts of Orlando, should those become available. The aviation authority also wants to get the state's high-speed rail maintenance compound.
Continued
#36
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Posted 21 October 2010 - 07:45 PM
Migman, on 21 October 2010 - 07:19 AM, said:
Airport gets on board with rail
Orlando International Airport is ready to start spending money to one day have a rail station for high-speed trains and possibly commuter and light-rail trains as well.
The Greater Orlando Aviation Authority board Wednesday approved $744,000 to expand and detail the airport's rail station proposal enough that the Florida Rail Commission soon can roll it into the state's overall rail plans.
The rail commission hopes to begin identifying possible contractors as early as next month and to have set plans by late next year. If all goes well, high-speed trains could start running between Orlando International Airport and downtown Tampa, with three stops in between, by 2015.
The airport's proposal calls for a rail station connected to the air passenger terminal by a people-mover tram. The station could not only handle high-speed trains – first linking with Tampa and possibly eventually with Miami and other parts of the state – but also commuter and light rail trains from SunRail, from other parts of Orlando, should those become available. The aviation authority also wants to get the state's high-speed rail maintenance compound.
Continued
Orlando International Airport is ready to start spending money to one day have a rail station for high-speed trains and possibly commuter and light-rail trains as well.
The Greater Orlando Aviation Authority board Wednesday approved $744,000 to expand and detail the airport's rail station proposal enough that the Florida Rail Commission soon can roll it into the state's overall rail plans.
The rail commission hopes to begin identifying possible contractors as early as next month and to have set plans by late next year. If all goes well, high-speed trains could start running between Orlando International Airport and downtown Tampa, with three stops in between, by 2015.
The airport's proposal calls for a rail station connected to the air passenger terminal by a people-mover tram. The station could not only handle high-speed trains – first linking with Tampa and possibly eventually with Miami and other parts of the state – but also commuter and light rail trains from SunRail, from other parts of Orlando, should those become available. The aviation authority also wants to get the state's high-speed rail maintenance compound.
Continued
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but why is the terminus for HSR at OIA instead of downtown Orlando? One of the convenience factors of using the trains in Europe and Asia is that you can walk from your hotel or home to the station. The airport is completely inaccessible without a car. I know you could take SunRail from downtown to the airport, but that's an extra step you shouldn't have to take to get to the city center. I've always felt like the downtown Lynx terminal could be expanded into a multi-modal station with an elevated track for the trains.
In other news, I've noticed crews drilling in the I-4 median near Sea World. They appeared to be the same crews I've seen on I-4 in Polk County. Is the train supposed to start it's run down I-4 near Sea World? I can't find a detailed route map anywhere.
Edited by palmtree73, 21 October 2010 - 07:46 PM.
#37
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Posted 21 October 2010 - 08:44 PM
palmtree73, on 21 October 2010 - 07:45 PM, said:
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but why is the terminus for HSR at OIA instead of downtown Orlando? One of the convenience factors of using the trains in Europe and Asia is that you can walk from your hotel or home to the station. The airport is completely inaccessible without a car. I know you could take SunRail from downtown to the airport, but that's an extra step you shouldn't have to take to get to the city center. I've always felt like the downtown Lynx terminal could be expanded into a multi-modal station with an elevated track for the trains.
In other news, I've noticed crews drilling in the I-4 median near Sea World. They appeared to be the same crews I've seen on I-4 in Polk County. Is the train supposed to start it's run down I-4 near Sea World? I can't find a detailed route map anywhere.
In other news, I've noticed crews drilling in the I-4 median near Sea World. They appeared to be the same crews I've seen on I-4 in Polk County. Is the train supposed to start it's run down I-4 near Sea World? I can't find a detailed route map anywhere.
One of the main reasons that HSR doesn't have a stop, as I have come to understand over the past few months, is because there is no place or space to put it downtown. Absolutely NO SPACE OR PLACE WHATSOEVER. Think about it, think about downtown Orlando.......where would you put it currently?
The question I have is how in the world do they expect to get SunRail out to the airport?
#38
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Posted 21 October 2010 - 09:20 PM
If SunRail connected to the airport I think it would pretty much solve the issue of connecting downtown to the airport.
That said, I've always felt not having HSR connect to downtown just seemed like typical Orlando. HSR connecting from our airport to Tampa's downtown seems like a kick in the balls, but oh well.
That said, I've always felt not having HSR connect to downtown just seemed like typical Orlando. HSR connecting from our airport to Tampa's downtown seems like a kick in the balls, but oh well.
#39
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Posted 22 October 2010 - 08:22 AM
Initially I felt as though downtown Orlando got the shaft in this plan but after seeing the long-term plan to turn OIA into a state-wide transportation hub, I think this makes a lot of sense. Don't get me wrong, I would have loved to have seen a "Grand Central Terminal" in downtown Orlando, but I also know from traveling around the world, particularly in Europe, that airports are often more important hubs than the city center. A good example of this is Schiphol Airport/Amsterdam.
The Orlando/Miami link will be critical if this is to be realized in its full potential, and the Orlando/Miami link better have a stop over at Port Canaveral to service the cruise industry.
To answer an earlier question regarding how SunRail will link to the Airport terminal: the initial plan is to have a spur from the Sand Lake Rd SunRail station to the airport that will essentially follow the same route as the HSR to the airport after it crosses over Sand Lake Rd. This would provide direct access from the airport to downtown Orlando.
The Orlando/Miami link will be critical if this is to be realized in its full potential, and the Orlando/Miami link better have a stop over at Port Canaveral to service the cruise industry.
To answer an earlier question regarding how SunRail will link to the Airport terminal: the initial plan is to have a spur from the Sand Lake Rd SunRail station to the airport that will essentially follow the same route as the HSR to the airport after it crosses over Sand Lake Rd. This would provide direct access from the airport to downtown Orlando.
#40
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Posted 22 October 2010 - 04:37 PM
As much as I love Downtown Orlando, it simply is not the major destination for a lot of out of town people. In a perfect world HSR would just be funded properly, but the reality is it still needs to hit ridership targets. And looking at those people who are likely going to need to ride the train, going from the airport to outlying stations, for instance Lakeland, is going to be a lot more important.
However, I think Sunrail is not going to provide the true like that Downtown Orlando needs to the HSR line. It needs much more frequency than that, at least every 15 minutes. It doesn't need huge trains to do that, but being based on a shared freight line means that is what you need to run. I am a little pessimistic in this political climate right now that anyone will do the right thing, but Orlando in particular really needs to jump on this and just do it. Build a dedicated line that links the airport right to downtown. Downtown needs a link to the airport as much as it does to the HSR line.
However, I think Sunrail is not going to provide the true like that Downtown Orlando needs to the HSR line. It needs much more frequency than that, at least every 15 minutes. It doesn't need huge trains to do that, but being based on a shared freight line means that is what you need to run. I am a little pessimistic in this political climate right now that anyone will do the right thing, but Orlando in particular really needs to jump on this and just do it. Build a dedicated line that links the airport right to downtown. Downtown needs a link to the airport as much as it does to the HSR line.
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