79 replies to this topic

[RegalTDP]

If you're gonna report it at all, you should be objective about it.  My initial beef was why they would even report it... An unnamed source said the proposal was handed to the city, but the city has had zero contact with anyone from Esna about it... I just don't consider that newsworthy.  Someone could hand a used Kleenex to the city, but I don't need to see that reported.  And a used Kleenex is just as likely to spur shovel-ready projects as this proposal.

Edited by RegalTDP, 03 March 2010 - 09:09 PM.

[joeDowntown]

I honestly think this is a funny little prank pulled off by someone who wanted to get tongues wagging. Can't wait for the big "gotcha" on April Fools.

Joe

[suydam]

joeDowntown, on 03 March 2010 - 09:41 PM, said:

I honestly think this is a funny little prank pulled off by someone who wanted to get tongues wagging. Can't wait for the big "gotcha" on April Fools.

Joe

That would not surprise me at all!
ESNA is out of business, Faust is unavailable, the application is horribly put together using video game graphics... it sounds like a joke.

[Gorath]

Faust was in Grand Rapids before the city commission to answer questions.  It's a real proposal and not a prank.  Just not a very realistic proposal.  (And I was wanting it to be a prank.)

Duane Faust is grilled by Grand Rapids City Commission

Check out the video at the bottom of the press article provided by Fox 17, they give props to you guys here at Urban Planet.  I wonder what the investigations in other states is?

Edited by Gorath, 10 March 2010 - 06:27 AM.

[Veloise]

Gorath, on 10 March 2010 - 06:23 AM, said:

...Check out the video at the bottom of the press article provided by Fox 17, they give props to you guys here at Urban Planet.  I wonder what the investigations in other states is?

"We're just not sure what to make of this new plan this time around."

Um... paper airplanes?

[francishsu]

What's curious is that Faust just wants the city to endorse the concept of the plan at this time, like some kind of hypothetical exercise.  What's the whole purpose of that?  Is there any danger of lawsuit if the city just flat out rejects the concept?  I don't understand why he's making this fantasy proposal.  I do know it stinks to high heaven.

[GRDadof3]

francishsu, on 10 March 2010 - 01:51 PM, said:

What's curious is that Faust just wants the city to endorse the concept of the plan at this time, like some kind of hypothetical exercise.  What's the whole purpose of that?  Is there any danger of lawsuit if the city just flat out rejects the concept?  I don't understand why he's making this fantasy proposal.  I do know it stinks to high heaven.

He wants to be able to put in his marketing proposal that it's "endorsed by the City of Grand Rapids."  It's his modus operandi.  He gets these other organizations to all say they're on board, at least conceptually, and then he touts them as full partners on the deal.  Then you go back and ask them and they're like "whoa, we're not a partner yet."

[wingbert]

Well you know, there's an old saying in Michigan - I know it's in Texas, probably in Michigan - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again.

[Veloise]

Here we go again

[gater]

Veloise, on 23 May 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Here we go again

I'm sure it will work...this time.

[OneSweetWorld]

That "rendering" makes me giggle every time.

[GRDadof3]

The fact that the article states that the police department is the largest chuck of the city's general fund...is scary.

[jdkacz]

I do not think I realize how massive the development was portayed in that image. That main building appears based on size comparisons to the Marriot hotel seems like 80 stories. What high times those were...

[tSlater]

Well it's not really to scale, either.  Look at that four storey building in the front and then compare it to the BOB.  Even accounting for distance and perspective, that's an awfully tall four storey building.

[GRDadof3]

jdkacz, on 23 May 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

I do not think I realize how massive the development was portayed in that image. That main building appears based on size comparisons to the Marriot hotel seems like 80 stories. What high times those were...

High is right. When I first saw that design, I thought everyone was smoking something...

[torgo]

GRDadof3, on 23 May 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

The fact that the article states that the police department is the largest chuck of the city's general fund...is scary.

Why? The police department is the largest chunk of every city's general fund.

[x99]

And it's disgusting, really, what we spend on public safety.  Wyoming spends HALF what Grand Rapids does on fire services.  So far as policing, I found this quote telling, from a May 8, 2012, Fox 17 story: "Belk said he could continue doing what he did this year when about ten officers retired and weren’t replaced.  He said the quality of police service hasn’t changed though because they’ve been able to tweak their scheduling."  Really?  They can "tweak" their schedules and save well over $1 million per year (figuring in salary, benefits, overhead).  Why didn't they do that years ago?  Answer:  We keep giving them the money.  Cut out 1/3 to 1/2 of each department's budget, reallocate to parks, lighting, streets, and beautification, and I'll bet a dime to a dollar we'd be a better city for it.  The cops can hire a bunch of $30k a year security guards to ride around on 90mpg scooters and direct traffic, and probably do more to prevent crime than they do.

The problem with fantasies like this "mystery project" is the basic economy of the whole thing:  The City is so inefficient that it would cost them more money to move than to stay put.  Presumably, increased property tax revenues would make up the difference.  Does anyone really think that's going to happen?  At present, we can't even seem to get the dinky little project at Division and Wealthy going.  What makes any sane person think someone would build those ridiculous Burj Khalifa towers on the riverfront (or anything there, for that matter)?  Buckets and buckets filled with stupid, that's what.

torgo, on 25 May 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

Why? The police department is the largest chunk of every city's general fund.

[wingbert]

Personally, I have absolutely no problem paying taxes to support the police and fire departments.  It's an investment I pray to the good lord I never have to recoup but I sleep easier at night knowing it's there.

[sfloria]

Removing the city property off the river and someday getting the post office off the river would really help create a more pleasureable experience along the river.  Especially if the rapids come back, it could really become a destination area.  I could image GVSU or housing would be a nice infill in that area with some park land along the river.  Maybe even a grocery store!!!

[x99]

Except this having this attitude is exactly why we're so broke that we're even discussing total fantasy projects to plug the holes.  Police and fire are not "investments"--they are expenses--expenses that other towns like Wyoming, in the case of fire, manage to provide for half the cost.  Instead of cutting these guys down to size and telling them to make do, we shovel more cash, while watching insane lunacy like highly paid police officers directing traffic outside the Arena and DeVos Place regularly, $800k elevator upgrades and City Hall (and $500k roofs), and firemen being staffed at levels that are way out of whack since fires have declined so significantly over the last few decades.  Last week they were standing outside the firehouse washing their pickups.  Seriously?  Give them more money?  Take out loans to move departments in order to sell it for less than the moving costs?  Who comes up with this nonsense?

wingbert, on 25 May 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

Personally, I have absolutely no problem paying taxes to support the police and fire departments.  It's an investment I pray to the good lord I never have to recoup but I sleep easier at night knowing it's there.